Liu Kang Matchup Discussion

[greeneless]

Did not see one of these created yet, definitely would like to see what people think about certain matchups so far.

Thought I'd start this off with some data for those of you that have trouble remembering when to use/not to use Kang's 1,2 string:

1,2 will jail all opponents when properly timed after a D1 or D3 on hit
1,2 will whiff against crouch neutral against all opponents (even khans)
1,2 will whiff against crouch block against all female characters EXCEPT ... Jade
1,2 will connect and grant advantage on crouch block against most male characters with exceptions of: Kano, Johnny Cage
1,2 has a special exception for Geras where the "1" will hit on crouch block but the "2" will whiff (ridiculous!) -- correct me if I'm wrong here: looks like if Geras lets go of block too early the "2" will connect and grant hit advantage
1,2 second hit should not be able to be neutral ducked if the first hit is blocked -- again correct me if I'm wrong with the proper situation/timing
3,4 despite being high should connect on crouch block against all opponents

All info above from day 1 pre-patch character balancing

 

[Kindred]

Wow thanks for creating this!
Against Geras, the 1 whiffs depending on your stance. If 1 whiffs but 2 hits, switch stances to have them both connect. Why you ask? Because fuck logic.

I cant help but be frustrated. Is this going to be patched? Shouldnt highs always hit crouch blocking opponents?

 

[greeneless]

Wow thanks for creating this!
Against Geras, the 1 whiffs depending on your stance. If 1 whiffs but 2 hits, switch stances to have them both connect. Why you ask? Because fuck logic.

I cant help but be frustrated. Is this going to be patched? Shouldnt highs always hit crouch blocking opponents?

I am not sure what NRS is trying to acheive with the female hitbox thing but it is certainly intentional. But then is Jade also intentional? I don't know man she's tall I guess.

If I had to speculate I'd say the Geras thing would be patched and the rest would not.

 

[Frenzy]

I am not sure what NRS is trying to acheive with the female hitbox thing but it is certainly intentional. But then is Jade also intentional? I don't know man she's tall I guess.

If I had to speculate I'd say the Geras thing would be patched and the rest would not.

I went around testing some stuff and some highs do connect on crouch blocking females(I only used Cassie as my practice dummy). Baraka’s f2, kabal’s s2, erron’s S2 and cassie’s s2 are all highs that work. If they could only make that work for everyone’s s1 and s2 that would be great.

 

[Frenzy]

To add, I’m not entirely sure if it’s intentional that highs whiff on crouch blocking females. I think it might be a result of them making the female character get too low to the ground when they crouch block combined with high attacks hitting too high. Same thing happens with Johnny.

 

[greeneless]

I went around testing some stuff and some highs do connect on crouch blocking females(I only used Cassie as my practice dummy). Baraka’s f2, kabal’s s2, erron’s S2 and cassie’s s2 are all highs that work. If they could only make that work for everyone’s s1 and s2 that would be great.

True, maybe the Liu stuff could be patched... At this point that would be a significant buff and he might end up being legit scary in the future

 

[OutworldKeith]

To add, I’m not entirely sure if it’s intentional that highs whiff on crouch blocking females. I think it might be a result of them making the female character get too low to the ground when they crouch block combined with high attacks hitting too high. Same thing happens with Johnny.

It’s not intentional. In the tutorial it literally says highs hit crouch blocks.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

-B3,4
-343

Those two strings followed by bicycle kick BOTH make the bicycle kick whiff on all females except if in the corner.
b3.4 and 343 must be canceled with dragon kick for the combo to extend.

 

[greeneless]

It’s not intentional. In the tutorial it literally says highs hit crouch blocks.

Makes you wonder if the devs played the game

-B3,4
-343

Those two strings followed by bicycle kick BOTH make the bicycle kick whiff on all females except if in the corner.
b3.4 and 343 must be canceled with dragon kick for the combo to extend.

Wait, they whiff on hit? I've seen bicycle whiff on block, sometimes it comes out on block when my inputs are sloppy

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

Wait, they whiff on hit? I've seen bicycle whiff on block, sometimes it comes out on block when my inputs are sloppy

Yes , they whiff on hit.

-B3 is one of his longest reaching footsie tools along with b2 and his sweep. So, completing the b3,4 string is a gimmick we should use every now and then because most players counterpoke after b3.

-On the other hand 343bike kick is (together with 212bike kick) his highest damaging restand combos, so against females you go for dragon kick.

 

[greeneless]

Saw this on the Kitana forums and was worried it would be a property of all low hitbox/small characters, but apparently occurs ONLY against Kitana and Johnny Cage:

F4,3 final hit can be made to miss on block if you follow these steps:
--Stand block first hit of F4
--Crouch block second hit of F4
--Neutral crouch follow-up 3

edit per below: also Sonya

 

[Frenzy]

Saw this on the Kitana forums and was worried it would be a property of all low hitbox/small characters, but apparently occurs ONLY against Kitana and Johnny Cage:

F4,3 final hit can be made to miss on block if you follow these steps:
--Stand block first hit of F4
--Crouch block second hit of F4
--Neutral crouch follow-up 3

Sonya can do this too and I think it can be done against f3333 as well.

 

[Frenzy]

Another thing I want to add is that b34’s second hit can be low profiled by some pokes. This makes it possible for someone to punish b3 stagger (-8 on block) with a 7f low profiling poke d3 like Lao or kitana and interrupt b34. Pretty messed up imo.

 

[greeneless]

Sonya can do this too and I think it can be done against f3333 as well.

Unfortunate news

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

Let's be serious here...

Who is going to block high in this game?

Not to say that b3,4 is a game changing string but at least there is that !

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

How about Liu Kang's wake-ups and anti-wake-up strategies?
What do you usually do when you land and have your back against the corner?
I usually face the jumping kick scenario and either block whatever the opponent does or just whiff my U3/U4.
The delayed stand up lasts only a little and usually don't mess up the offense of the attacker.
I'm also not sure what the frame data and timing is but when you stand up and press a button, are you extra negative because you're standing up? Or do you actually have a chance to interrupt sth ?
I ask that because I have a bad habit of waking up U3 and lately I'm getting used to delaying stand-up while trying to d1 or standing 1 (both 7frames) to interrupt the attacker's strings.
I have a bunch of other questions but I already wrote myself a memoir...

 

[Kindred]

Let's be serious here...Who is going to block high in this game?
Not to say that b3,4 is a game changing string but at least there is that !

Until......you face someone who flawless blocks it consistently lol

How about Liu Kang's wake-ups and anti-wake-up strategies?

tempting to say this is very much based on your opponent's pattern. I have a pattern where I will jump a lot when I have the opponent in a corner. Guess it depends on the reads you make.
I noticed though, A LOT of people will knock you down and then walk back a little bit to avoid any potential wake up, then when they see no wake up, they begin a string. I find that against these back-walkers, waking up right away with 123 works wonders. Some might say it's disrespectful but fuck em it's based on the read of the opponent's pattern. Obv if you always do it, the opponent will catch on and adapt but used sparingly really catches a lot of ppl off guard.

What do you usually do when you land and have your back against the corner?
I usually face the jumping kick scenario and either block whatever the opponent does or just whiff my U3/U4.

When I get ppl in the corner, I neutral jump a lot. and what gets me every time is a simple, well timed, uppercut. Some characters even convert it into a D1~Spear. Not gonna say who.

If they start walking towards you, it might mean they are going to grab or they are preparing to flawless block your U3. Either way, coming out with 123 works wonder.

Alternatively, if I dont see them walking but go into a string right away (or if they have had the tendency to do this consistently), then U3 their face.

 

[greeneless]

There are some matchups I've yet to get solid experience with but this is how I feel Liu stacks up so far -- personal preference to not do 4.5-5.5's but a notable one that could be in there as a minor loss is Baraka

edit: Shang 5-5

 

[Kindred]

There are some matchups I've yet to get solid experience with but this is how I feel Liu stacks up so far -- personal preference to not do 4.5-5.5's but a notable one that could be in there as a minor loss is Baraka

edit: Shang 5-5

Looks good. I dunno if I would say Frost and liu are 5-5.
Skarlet and Frost have the same fundamental gameplan, which is spacing. Many of skarlet's strings leave her at a distance and only one is punishable at -11. She is essentially a much better version of Frost.
Frost on the other hand, has 3 strings that leave her very punishable (-15 to -20), doesnt have the zoning of skarlet, can do very little under pressure because of her slow mids and opening someone up is near impossible since her only 2 overheads are reactable. Her game essentially relies on grabs and whiff punishing.

I feel Skarlet has a slight advantage on Liu but I might be wrong here. However, with Frost, it is definitely not 5-5. I would say 6-4 in Liu's favor for sure.

 

[greeneless]

Looks good. I dunno if I would say Frost and liu are 5-5.
Skarlet and Frost have the same fundamental gameplan, which is spacing. Many of skarlet's strings leave her at a distance and only one is punishable at -11. She is essentially a much better version of Frost.
Frost on the other hand, has 3 strings that leave her very punishable (-15 to -20), doesnt have the zoning of skarlet, can do very little under pressure because of her slow mids and opening someone up is near impossible since her only 2 overheads are reactable. Her game essentially relies on grabs and whiff punishing.

I feel Skarlet has a slight advantage on Liu but I might be wrong here. However, with Frost, it is definitely not 5-5. I would say 6-4 in Liu's favor for sure.

Just glad someone thinks I'm mostly in the ballpark here really, first time making one of those. I played a damn solid Frost the other day, might have biased me.

I can see Skarlet being slight disadvantage, not totally sure yet. She definitely doesn't give me as much trouble as Cetrion or Cassie as far as zoning and spacing goes.