Better defensive options!

[OutworldKeith]

cuz that game is a lot more noob friendly than mk. mk is just fun for noobs to play, things are easy to execute, but if you want to get better, youre gonna have to spend time to improve yourself like other fg's

I'm already good at MK9, been playing since day 1. I would just like to see some more diversity in MK because I love the series. NRS is not afraid to take chance, they did it with the "Klose Kombat" and "Free Fall Kombat" and I have faith that they can pull it off.

 

[HANZO HASA5HI]

I just want to be able to dodge and counter like in UFC 2010. If you tried to dodge but still got hit cause you swayed your head in the wrong direction you would get take a little more damage but if you got it right and then countered you would do a little more damage.

 

[Slips]

The ability to sway backwards to dodge a kick or punch and then counter with your own attack (just one example) would make it a much more technical fighting game and more realistic so Im in favor.




If you hit your opponent then they wouldnt be able to dodge and counter your attacks cause theyd be "rocked"/staggered. That's the way I think it should be.

Mashing out stuff during pressure doesn't make the game more technical. Just more annoying to the person who guessed right initially to get the advantage in the first place. Knowing when to release block during pressure and time a d1 out of it or armor move out of it is more technical than mashing out dragon punches, hop kicks, jumps, backdashes, option selects, sidewalks, parries or 'sways'.

If you wanna make the game more technical with more options, reward that to the offense...not the defense.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Mashing out stuff during pressure doesn't make the game more technical. Just more annoying to the person who guessed right initially to get the advantage in the first place. Knowing when to release block during pressure and time a d1 out of it or armor move out of it is more technical than mashing out dragon punches, hop kicks, jumps, backdashes, option selects, sidewalks, parries or 'sways'.

If you wanna make the game more technical with more options, reward that to the offense...not the defense.

The initial argument was that MK9 is too offensive. I feel that the next title should not necessarily be made more technical, but have more variety within the gameplay. I favor the counter play style of MK2 and I also love to have a controlled rush-down, but I would like to see defensive minded players get some love. In the end it will make us all better players IMO.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Slips I agree with that. The timing it takes to interupt strings and knowing where and how to interupt and with what move is VERY technical.

That said, feel that In this version of MK, the aggressor is rewarded and playing defensively leaves you at huge disadvantage. It should not take frame time to go into and out of block unless on block stun. Their is an obvious disadvantage for playing defense.

 

[Slips]

The initial argument was that MK9 is too offensive. I feel that the next title should not necessarily be made more technical, but have more variety within the gameplay. I favor the counter play style of MK2 and I also love to have a controlled rush-down, but I would like to see defensive minded players get some love. In the end it will make us all better players IMO.

Tell Cage, Baraka, Jade, Cyber Sub, Sheeva, Sonya, Jax and Quan Chi players this game is more offensive playing against Kabal, Kitana, Mileena, Ermac, Noob, Cyrax, Reptile, Sub Zero, Smoke, Shang and Raiden players.

The defensive players have all the zoning tools in the world to deal with the best offensive characters. If someone gets in on you with tools as ridiculous as ice clones, air fireballs, tkp, force balls, clones, bombs and nets, missles, and teleports ect...its time to pay the price. Not get ANOTHER chance to get away and start the bullshit all over again.

 

[HANZO HASA5HI]

Mashing out stuff during pressure doesn't make the game more technical. Just more annoying to the person who guessed right initially to get the advantage in the first place. Knowing when to release block during pressure and time a d1 out of it or armor move out of it is more technical than mashing out dragon punches, hop kicks, jumps, backdashes, option selects, sidewalks, parries or 'sways'.

If you wanna make the game more technical with more options, reward that to the offense...not the defense.

Yea but man come on, these are martial arts experts - the best in the world - so wouldnt they know how to dodge and counter? Either way, Im not going anywhere.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Tell Cage, Baraka, Jade, Cyber Sub, Sheeva, Sonya, Jax and Quan Chi players this game is more offensive playing against Kabal, Kitana, Mileena, Ermac, Noob, Cyrax, Reptile, Sub Zero, Smoke, Shang and Raiden players.

The defensive players have all the zoning tools in the world to deal with the best offensive characters. If someone gets in on you with tools as ridiculous as ice clones, air fireballs, tkp, force balls, clones, bombs and nets, missles, and teleports ect...its time to pay the price. Not get ANOTHER chance to get away and start the bullshit all over again.

What about characters like NW who have zero frame traps, limited armor moves poor zoning with projectiles and has to rely on risky shoulders, Lightning traps, and footsies to win?

Characters like NW are limited due to lack of defensive options. He punishes hard and has momentum to take off 60-70% of your life all with risk. But doesn't get those chances often when rushdown locks him up. My only options are counter pokes and praying for a jump.

He doesn't even have a poke faster than 7 frames so against characters like cage, kitana, scorp he can't poke fast enough for advantage.


Grrrrrrrr nightwolf grrrrrr.

 

[Slips]

What about characters like NW who have zero frame traps, limited armor moves poor zoning with projectiles and has to rely on risky shoulders, Lightning traps, and footsies to win?

Characters like NW are limited due to lack of defensive options. He punishes hard and has momentum to take off 60-70% of your life all with risk. But doesn't get those chances often when rushdown locks him up. My only options are counter pokes and praying for a jump.

He doesn't even have a poke faster than 7 frames so against characters like cage, kitana, scorp he can't poke fast enough for advantage.


Grrrrrrrr nightwolf grrrrrr.

lol i do think NRS should make all d1's universally 6 frames. Poor Nighty.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Bro I'm 19, the first fighting game I ever touched was Mortal Kombat 2. I've been chucking spears since "95". I digress, SF has a bigger variety of gameplay and it forces you to have a better understanding of the game and I think that NRS can pull that off without losing the fun factor because MK is more fun to play opposed to SF. I also play Tekken and the game still has a pretty good pace even though they have more diverse defense. Even with parries & reversals it would be impossible to sit back & turtle for 3 reasons:
1). The probability of your opponent guessing if your about to Fp/Bp - Fk/Bk is sadly not in their favor.
2). Special moves wont be able to be parried/reversed because that would make it OP.
3). Match-ups

1. Right, b/c no one knows to block low then high against Quan Chi. Or always block high against Smoke or anything like that right?

2. That would have to be done b/c almost everything else would be reversible. Talk about a boring turtle game EVERY match. It would also cause even more players to spam since specials wouldn't be parried. I mean, why would you even want to attack? If everything can be parried and reversed then why not just sit there and throw your projectile the whole game?

3. This is something that is prominent in all fighting games.

 

[OutworldKeith]

1. Right, b/c no one knows to block low then high against Quan Chi. Or always block high against Smoke or anything like that right?

2. That would have to be done b/c almost everything else would be reversible. Talk about a boring turtle game EVERY match. It would also cause even more players to spam since specials wouldn't be parried. I mean, why would you even want to attack? If everything can be parried and reversed then why not just sit there and throw your projectile the whole game?

3. This is something that is prominent in all fighting games.

Just look at any high level play video of Tekken, they have all of the above but it aint broken or OP so how do you figure it will be in MK?

 

[HangNail]

Yeah, that won't last long in the competitive scene at that rate. There's nothing wrong with some defensive measures in this game besides AAs and armored moves. Look at characters like Quan Chi and Sektor, do you have any idea how badly they get bodied when getting rushed down because they either do not have EX armor or their options are garbage.

Having parries and actual defensive measures will stop the counter picking 7-3, 8-2 bullshit matchups in this game. You don't necessarily get out played in this game, there's a lot of gimmicks in this game, and when you lose to gimmicks; well it's bullshit after a while and this is WHY we see the same 5-7 characters in tournaments.

BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONLY VIABLE CHARACTERS TO PLAY COMPETITIVELY! You guys can say what you want about SF4 but SF4 has FAR more tournament viable diversity.

Yea but the characters who get rushed down and badly punished are the ones who have the tools to not let that happen. So if you are constantly getting rushed down throw some more projectiles.

 

[HANZO HASA5HI]

Bro I'm 19, the first fighting game I ever touched was Mortal Kombat 2. I've been chucking spears since "95".

I am.. THIRTEE! AAAHH !! I saw the Mortal Kombat movie in the THEATER with a chick! I played MK 1 in the arcade the first week it was released! People used to crowd around it and wait their turn. Huge crowds.

 

[Flagg]

Seriously, no.

MK 10 does not need more defensive options. If you want to play a game where you can get a life lead then turtle for the whole round for the win, go play SSF IV.

MK 9 has limited defense options, but certain universal options FOR EVERYONE!

It's interesting that HANZO is here, I played him in ranked last week, Baraka vs Scorpion and he had the low pokes into spear down to a tee.

If people want more defence then they shouldn't be playing this. I love how intense and aggressive this game is. Strongest wins, not most cowardly.

 

[ELC]

Consider Guilty Gear: Burst, Instant Blocking, Faultless Defense, and Slashbacks in addition to Pokes, Parries, Reflects, Zoning, etc. Seems like a pretty good repetoire for defenses ... in fact, one could say it was too defensive if it were for instant air dash, running, Roman Cancel, False Roman Cancel, tension gain from being aggressive (including simply walking forward), and tension penalty from being overly defensive.

My point is, if you want to give more defensive options, you have to consider the possibility of more offensive options to compensate.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Defense does not mean to turtle:

For god's sake, look at the throw mechanic. It's almost impossible to tech a grab on reaction. It has an identical animation for the forward/neutral throws, and you cant even hold block in the process of trying to tech a throw. SF has an identical throw animation, but you can tech forward/neutral throws with Lp+Lk. They should have unique animations for forward/neutral throws in MK10 if they keep a similar mechanic.

 

[ELC]

What fighting game can you react to throws? Most of the time, especially in Capcom-esque fighters, the startup is only a couple of frames, so you must anticipate it. At least with MK9, you can react to it instead of anticipating it: it's just a matter of anticipating forward or backward throw, which would be dependent on matchup, positioning, and simply making reads

 

[Killphil]

Defense does not mean to turtle:

For god's sake, look at the throw mechanic. It's almost impossible to tech a grab on reaction. It has an identical animation for the forward/neutral throws, and you cant even hold block in the process of trying to tech a throw. SF has an identical throw animation, but you can tech forward/neutral throws with Lp+Lk. They should have unique animations for forward/neutral throws in MK10 if they keep a similar mechanic.

What about tekken then? The throw animations are different but by the time you register "front hand" or "back hand" your ass is getting thrown. Its 50/50 if someone grabs you, you can get out of throws by ducking, low poking, and jumping. Thats three options there, plus the chance to actually break the throw. Do you really need more than this?

 

[OutworldKeith]

What fighting game can you react to throws? Most of the time, especially in Capcom-esque fighters, the startup is only a couple of frames, so you must anticipate it. At least with MK9, you can react to it instead of anticipating it: it's just a matter of anticipating forward or backward throw, which would be dependent on matchup, positioning, and simply making reads

Correct you can't really react you have to anticipate if your opponent will attempt a throw but even then it's still ridiculously hard to tech throws without spamming the correct button ( and that's still a pure guess lol ). I don't agree about anticipating forward/neural throws because you cant. The animation is identical so that makes it literally impossible to anticipate a forward/neural throw and it's situational. For example, if I'm fighting Cage & he has me in corner and he goes for a throw attempt there's a 50/50 chance of a forward/neural throw, but due to the situation of me being in the corner there's a 90% chance of Cage attempting a forward throw to keep me trapped in the corner.

But what makes it so hard is the fact that you cant hold block in the process of trying to tech a throw IMO

 

[OutworldKeith]

What about tekken then? The throw animations are different but by the time you register "front hand" or "back hand" your ass is getting thrown. Its 50/50 if someone grabs you, you can get out of throws by ducking, low poking, and jumping. Thats three options there, plus the chance to actually break the throw. Do you really need more than this?

I play Tekken 6 too dude the window to tech a grab is good enough to see & react to the correct throw and face button. Also, some throws in MK9 can go through pokes...I've been grabbed out of D+1 pokes offline multiple times.