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When The Patches Come, Do You Prefer They Buff Up, Or Nerf Down?

SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I am having this debate at the moment and I'm wondering what others think about patching characters. We all know it's coming, but what is the preferred option?

Do you prefer they buff up characters that are lacking in comparison to the top?

Do you prefer they nerf down characters at the top towards the middle?

Why do you feel that way, and what benefit do you think it adds long term over the other option? I'll keep my own thoughts for now to not sway opinion, as I am interested in others.
 
wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
It will be interesting to see this time around, especially if they decide to go the route of balancing via what is/isn't included in tournament variations. I think a lot of characters should be buffed up, but only to the extent of them feeling "complete," and maybe they can achieve this just by adding moves to existing tournament variations, or adding new variations in general.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Kiss the Missile said:
Never been a fan of making characters less fun. I hope they buff everyone to be as dumb as Erron, and I mean that in a good way my guy
Click to expand...
Do you think you'd run the risk of having a "busted game" by going that route? Say if 3/4 of the cast was equally as strong as Geras, Sub, Erron are currently, would that make the game "more fun" in your opinion while being very balanced that way?

wsj515 said:
It will be interesting to see this time around, especially if they decide to go the route of balancing via what is/isn't included in tournament variations. I think a lot of characters should be buffed up, but only to the extent of them feeling "complete," and maybe they can achieve this just by adding moves to existing tournament variations, or adding new variations in general.
Click to expand...
Given the character and special moves left out, that can easily be method for balance. I think it's a way to avoid massive changes if done correctly, while adding more depth to characters when you adjust them. While at the same time keeping the game fresh. Would likely be the most innovative way to go about it.
 
ShadyHeart

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
Nerf the stupid shit. Buff the characters that have no reason to exist. Quality of life stuff otherwise. They need to buff the majority of custom abilities as well. Most are a complete joke. A lot of useless strings could get some love.
 
REO

REO

Undead
Nerf down. Buff the bottoms a bit. The top tier aren't the blue print for great character design. If you make everyone play like Geras, Erron, Scorpion, Sub, Sonya, then I fear this game will go down the same path as MKX. In MKX they tried the philosophy of "Oh, the top tiers are broken? OK, let's buff everyone to be as annoying and obnoxious as the top tiers". And then NRS started giving everyone in MKX unreactable overheads, +25 launchers, vortexes, etc. etc. It got to the point where people were sick of playing against everyone's character because every character wasn't fun to play against. A year into MKX, NRS realized they went down the wrong path by making every character stupid, and they tried to make MKX into a more enjoyable fighter but at this point many people had a bad taste in their mouth and had moved on.

If Kabal and Batgirl are broken, you don't buff everyone else to make it so there's 20 Kabals and Batgirls. That's a joke. Just nerf the top tiers to around the level of the middle tiers, and buff the bottom tiers slightly up. It's totally fine if your character is top tier and gets nerfed properly and still remains a very good character. NRS did the balancing pretty nice with Injustice 2 top tiers with Catwoman, Black Adam, etc. The only character that got the shaft was Deadshot, but he was terribly designed to begin with.

Right now MK11 is drastically in need of hitbox fixes above anything else. The game is plagued with severe hitboxes, low profiling pokes, and attack inconsistencies for so many characters.


IMO, Priorities for MK11 should be:

  • Fix many of the hitbox and hurtbox issues among the cast
  • Fix a ton of the low profiling pokes and attacks
  • Fix some characters ridiculous Krushing Blow requirements
  • Possibly take a look at the Fatal Blow system because right now I think Fatal Blows are one of the worst mechanically designed aspects about MK11
  • Slightly balance the game
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
karaokelove said:
Pick a character who is just where they should be and bring all the other characters closer to their level, whether that means buffing or nerfing.
Click to expand...
Zoidberg747 said:
Both. The best option is always a mixture of both.
Click to expand...
REO said:
Nerf down. Buff the bottoms a bit. The top tier aren't the blue print for great character design. If you make everyone play like Geras, Erron, Scorpion, Sub, Sonya, then I fear this game will go down the same path as MKX. In MKX they tried the philosophy of "Oh, the top tiers are broken? OK, let's buff everyone to be as annoying and obnoxious as the top tiers". And then NRS started giving everyone in MKX unreactable overheads, +25 launchers, vortexes, etc. etc. It got to the point where people were sick of playing against everyone's character because every character wasn't fun to play against. A year into MKX, NRS realized they went down the wrong path by making every character stupid, and they tried to make MKX into a more enjoyable fighter but at this point many people had a bad taste in their mouth and had moved on.

If Kabal and Batgirl are broken, you don't buff everyone else to make it so there's 20 Kabals and Batgirls. That's a joke. Just nerf the top tiers to around the level of the middle tiers, and buff the bottom tiers slightly up. It's totally fine if your character is top tier and gets nerfed properly and still remains a very good character. NRS did the balancing pretty nice with Injustice 2 top tiers with Catwoman, Black Adam, etc. The only character that got the shaft was Deadshot, but he was terribly designed to begin with.

Right now MK11 is drastically in need of hitbox fixes above anything else. The game is plagued with severe hitboxes, low profiling pokes, and attack inconsistencies for so many characters.


IMO, Priorities for MK11 should be:

  • Fix many of the hitbox and hurtbox issues among the cast
  • Fix a ton of the low profiling pokes and attacks
  • Fix some characters ridiculous Krushing Blow requirements
  • Possibly take a look at the Fatal Blow system because right now I think Fatal Blows are one of the worst mechanically designed aspects about MK11
  • Slightly balance the game
Click to expand...
See this is my preferred method as well, to try to find a way to bring everyone closer to that middle ground. The counter to this I hear is that it is too difficult because it creates a situation where you're constantly trying to play ping pong, being "unable" to find a middle ground due to the after-effect of adjusting the characters both up and down. That this is why it is more effective in terms of balance to do it in one route, such as MKX year one (gameplay preferences aside). Or how Tekken does 80-85% of their changes as upwards buffs. Glad to see I'm not alone on this.

Also-

REO said:
Priorities for MK11 should be:

  • Fix many of the hitbox and hurtbox issues among the cast
  • Fix a ton of the low profiling pokes and attacks
  • Fix some characters ridiculous Krushing Blow requirements
  • Possibly take a look at the Fatal Blow system because right now I think Fatal Blows are one of the worst mechanically designed aspects about MK11
  • Slightly balance the game
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree with this more if I wrote it myself. Exactly my thoughts word for word here.
 
Convicsik

Convicsik

Noob
REO said:
Nerf down. Buff the bottoms a bit. The top tier aren't the blue print for great character design. If you make everyone play like Geras, Erron, Scorpion, Sub, Sonya, then I fear this game will go down the same path as MKX. In MKX they tried the philosophy of "Oh, the top tiers are broken? OK, let's buff everyone to be as annoying and obnoxious as the top tiers". And then NRS started giving everyone in MKX unreactable overheads, +25 launchers, vortexes, etc. etc. It got to the point where people were sick of playing against everyone's character because every character wasn't fun to play against. A year into MKX, NRS realized they went down the wrong path by making every character stupid, and they tried to make MKX into a more enjoyable fighter but at this point many people had a bad taste in their mouth and had moved on.

If Kabal and Batgirl are broken, you don't buff everyone else to make it so there's 20 Kabals and Batgirls. That's a joke. Just nerf the top tiers to around the level of the middle tiers, and buff the bottom tiers slightly up. It's totally fine if your character is top tier and gets nerfed properly and still remains a very good character. NRS did the balancing pretty nice with Injustice 2 top tiers with Catwoman, Black Adam, etc. The only character that got the shaft was Deadshot, but he was terribly designed to begin with.

Right now MK11 is drastically in need of hitbox fixes above anything else. The game is plagued with severe hitboxes, low profiling pokes, and attack inconsistencies for so many characters.


IMO, Priorities for MK11 should be:

  • Fix many of the hitbox and hurtbox issues among the cast
  • Fix a ton of the low profiling pokes and attacks
  • Fix some characters ridiculous Krushing Blow requirements
  • Possibly take a look at the Fatal Blow system because right now I think Fatal Blows are one of the worst mechanically designed aspects about MK11
  • Slightly balance the game
Click to expand...
Definitely agree that krushing blows need balanced. Some characters are as easy as a whiff punish while others have ridiculous requirements.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I agree with REO that hitbox fixes are more pressing, but when it comes to balance changes, you gotta change what needs to be changed. There's no real blueprint, and you don't wanna balance to too far low a point in power level, otherwise you end up with characters being balanced, but dull to play. Dirt is fine, so long as it's not centralizing.

But right now, it's all about the fixes, because those in themselves are potential buffs and nerfs to a character.
 
Elias6999

Elias6999

Mournful Master
It depends, but I really don’t want them to over nerf / buff characters.

I know it’s early in the game’s life still, But we can safely say there are no broken characters like MMH, Batgirl, and MK9 Kabal, and no completely useless characters, so characters like D’vorah need a few tweaks, and the game would be fine IMO.
 
NaCl man

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Just nerf the top. Not into oblivion and dont touch the rest. Let it rock for a bit then see.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Buffs are to let characters compete. Nerfs are because the gameplay isn't intended/isn't actually diverse or interesting because a couple of tools are dominating the meta. There's different reasoning, so we can't just act like all nerfs and buffs are alike (or like you can mainly do one and not the other).

You can't just pick nerfs or buffs without looking at the context -- everything needs to be relative to the current situation in an actual game. You do what your specific game needs.

If you went overboard, you don't compensate by trying to go overboard on every character.. You'll just end up likely 1) Further unbalancing the game with your massive buffs and 2) Making the game a lot less fun to play.

So you nerf things that are harming the overall gameplay in an unintended fashion, and then you give struggling characters some help without going far overboard to the point that they become ridiculous.

@REO was on point with his comments, and this is something a lot of people here need to learn.
 
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