Fix a “bad” character with ONE change

[SaltShaker]

Cetrion-

Make it to where you cannot consistently low profile her 14F mid when you are at negative frames.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Well my immediate one was Kotal command grab doesn't side switch but since that was already brought up...


Shao Kahn Buffs/Debuffs need to be at least twice as fast as they currently are. There is absolutely nothing you can do to make them not punishable to use, anywhere on screen. Even if you purposely cancel into a taunt/dark priest off a combo, like 23 that launches them high, they still wake up and you are almost -30 and they can do anything they want to you.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Go to the "whose the worst character" thread. Look at page 1 GloRtor's comments. Look at mine on page 2. Literally 2 pages of facts. If you can dispute them, I'd love to hear it. Sharing opinions is one thing, comparing hard numbers and frame data with the rest of the cast to support them is another.

Yeah, I mean, Glortor wants her to have a MB staff spin that’s + on block and launches.
Her only actual weakness is the fact that her damage is not the best but she is a great character outside of that, most characters have at least one weakness, also the game has been out for a week... she is not a bad character at all...

 

[Tanno]

Geras: His DB2 (Tremor-like punch) to fix its whiff issue against juggled opponents.

Sub Zero: Replace his air Ice Axe into his Ice Floor to prevent the low zoning for V1.

Cetrion: Her air rock to have less active frames, so that it can be a bit faster.

Frost: Give Frost's Amplified barrier (DD1) more armor to protect against more zoning, like Baraka's Amplified Fireball. We don't need the faster and longer barrier.

 

[Arqwart]

The fact that there’s even people considering Cage or Jade as bad is alarming lol

I've been avoiding throwing out any complaints about Jade (save for her tournament variations); but the more and more I play, the more I see just how glaring her flaws are without viable compensation to make up for it.

1. Properly block/dodge something, giving you a window for a full combo? Enjoy sub-20% damage full punish unless you have a KB to use.
2. Finally get a sexy KB combo starter out? Enjoy them rolling out of it cause you have no regular launcher to make them burn defensive meter, nor is your pressure good enough to make them feel the need to roll wakeup ever.
3. In a matchup against a zoner in which you can Glow? Watch as they all have one or more moves that ignores Glow and suddenly you're the one having to meticulously manage everything just to advance or stay equal in life.
4. Got that pressure going in the corner? Enjoy having your options range from 8% damage to just above 20% damage, assuming you guess right. Meanwhile, your opponent is going to guess right once and use 1 bar to blow up 30%+ of your health.
5. Stuck in close quarters fighting? Enjoy your only options being two low-range highs or one mediocre speed advancing mid whose following string requires mashing to come out.
6. Defending in the corner against that pressure character? Better pray they're dumb enough to stay close enough for your unacceptably garbage range wakeups so you can get them off you. Otherwise, you're shit outta luck once you get up because nothing you do is going to be fast or safe enough to contest their pressure.

Jade has only one thing going for her that don't have some sort of major negative attached: Amplified Air Glaive (which is variation specific). Just about everything Jade does is a gimmick: if the opponent knows what it does, Jade just plain loses. She's really fun to play when she works, but people who know what's coming and how to respond basically deactivate her. Every time Jade gets something right, she's lucky to break 15% damage without meter. She has to be correct / the opponent has to be wrong an excessive number of times for Jade to squeeze out a win, all the while the opponent is learning Jade's gimmicks which starts to cross off Jade's list of viable options.

As for the thread topic itself, all I can do is echo what others have said: make Butterfly safe. This wouldn't "fix" her, but it would do an ok job of patching up some glaring holes in her gameplay.

 

[Cheesus]

The worst character/variation is Baraka/Bone Picker. He has virtually no combos, just a string into ex.fireball.

The one change I would make is Spine Burst NOT replace his Chop Chop, there is no reason why it should replace it. He should have both, they serve different purposes

 

[GLoRToR]

Yeah, I mean, Glortor wants her to have a MB staff spin that’s + on block and launches.
Her only actual weakness is the fact that her damage is not the best but she is a great character outside of that, most characters have at least one weakness, also the game has been out for a week... she is not a bad character at all...

You misunderstand; The thread title said change one thing to make a character strong. That's the one thing that I could happen to make her top tier right off the bat. I don't want her to be broken. If Butterfly was just safe on block she'd still be the same as she is today except she'd be able to use more strings than 212 every time. Making it -5 wouldn't change much about her gameplan at all.

You also misunderstand what Jade's weakness is.
It's not that she's not dealing damage and it's not that she's unsafe.
It's risk/reward:

Jade's weakness is that for one good read she can choose to be unsafe and try to set the opponent up for damage, suffering another major combo in most cases because of how many characters can deal 30% on a punish - OR to be safe but get nothing done. Not dealing damage and not being safe are not reasons but results of the fact that the character is currently skewed in options BECAUSE of how the rest of the cast operates and that changing either would suffice in the right way to solve this problem.

1st Pool of changes
124 could launch for 20% meterless, 30% meterburn.
BF2 could be safe and launch for 25% meterburn.

2nd Pool of changes
F21 could start up 12f faster for what it is.
B1 could be safe on block and jail into the 2 of the string.
b2 could be a mid.

Either making these three options overall better or allowing her to combo and she's where Liu, Sonya, Sub, and the others are.

 

[Qwark28]

The worst character/variation is Baraka/Bone Picker. He has virtually no combos, just a string into ex.fireball.

The one change I would make is Spine Burst NOT replace his Chop Chop, there is no reason why it should replace it. He should have both, they serve different purposes

Just because you can't do anything with the char/variation doesn't mean it's the worst lmao.

 

[santanabar]

Cetrion: remove her from the game

 

[Shirakani]

Scorpion... spear captures meterlessly again, like it frigging should.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Well I think every character is decent some better than others but there are strong shortcomings on my favorite character Kotal. This game is based heavily on punishing highs and since they are slower and the universal D2 KB you can't get highs out close up because they are 11-13+ frames. Kotals F24 has a huge active frames issue, it's startup of 22 and traveling for days so most Normals knock him out of it and it's his main footsie tool. The F2 only hits at the very end of the animation and I'd like to get more active frames or a better hitbox. If that won't be fixed he could use a short range 9 frame mid like others. Most of all I'd like Kahn-cut to be a base move so I can have two totems and his CG. His other vars are shit without Kahn-cut since it's his only combo starter aside from his slow ass high B2 which doesn't lead into high damage.
His pushback definitely has corner carry but nothing had block pressure, it's all to negative to follow but his F34 is a good mix making them guess between F3 and F34 and it's the only thing I can half way setup sun ray off it but it's way to many frames of recovery it's basically punishable full screen after combo.

My one thing would be Kahn-cut made into base move so we can use totems and do his other variations don't suck.

 

[Brown Cow 54]

Geras: His DB2 (Tremor-like punch) to fix its whiff issue against juggled opponents.

Sub Zero: Replace his air Ice Axe into his Ice Floor to prevent the low zoning for V1.

Cetrion: Her air rock to have less active frames, so that it can be a bit faster.

Frost: Give Frost's Amplified barrier (DD1) more armor to protect against more zoning, like Baraka's Amplified Fireball. We don't need the faster and longer barrier.

“Geras”. You know it said bad character right?

 

[Wrath0594]

Yeah, I mean, Glortor wants her to have a MB staff spin that’s + on block and launches.
Her only actual weakness is the fact that her damage is not the best but she is a great character outside of that, most characters have at least one weakness, also the game has been out for a week... she is not a bad character at all...

2 pages of facts vs “too soon” and “I think she’s good.”

Yeah, this is what TYM has made me expect. Why put in time and effort articulating an opinion when this is what you get back?

 

[MateoFoShizzle]

Rain by including him

 

[Second Saint]

With D'vorah, making either 2 or 4 a mid would go a long, long way toward improving the character. The options I have to make people stop mashing after d1 on hit are just terrible. More pokes, raw Katipo Rush and spend a bar for safety if they block, or don't hit confirm and try to jail a s1.

Never thought I wouldn't have good mids as a D'vorah main. Genuinely never saw it coming.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

2 pages of facts vs “too soon” and “I think she’s good.”

Yeah, this is what TYM has made me expect. Why put in time and effort articulating an opinion when this is what you get back?

Yes people do shut down most opinions on here but sunfire is right. Jade is easily the second best zoner. Her normals are good when used right, she has solid space control. I understand why people are frustrated with lack of damage but that's something nearly every character needs except zoning characters. You give high damage to a zoner and they win close, med and far.

Maybe just reduce F2 by a couple frames of startup other than that I think she is solid. She isn't rushdown and her norms are built for space control, you would have to rework her completely to make her rushdown and asking for a free way to spam b343 is Braindead.

 

[Cheesus]

Just because you can't do anything with the char/variation doesn't mean it's the worst lmao.

Well, something's gotta be the worst, that's my vote. What's yours?

 

[Kitana Fan]

Give Kano more combos that involve his knives.

 

[TaserFace007]

The time for Shao Khan's buffs and debuffs needs to be cut in half so that he can actually use them to do more damage to the opponents than they do to him while he's activating them.

 

[Shirakani]

If you ask me, a good GLOBAL change is that ALL AMPLIFIED MOVES SHOULD BE SAFE ON BLOCK! Of course within reason. Anything that launches you into the air... ok you're going to eat it. But grounded moves should be safe.

For everyone! Across the board! I mean come on... That's how it is in pretty much every other game that uses 'ex moves'.

 

[Wrath0594]

Jade is easily the second best zoner

her norms are built for space control

Play Jade. Neither of these are true. I’ve explained it ad naseum. People in this thread have explained it. I’m not explaining it anymore. Or go to their forum and tell the mains how good she is, and how they’re all just trash players for not winning with “the 2nd best zoner.” It’s obvious the real reason people say shit like this because they’re losing to Jades and can’t adapt.

Strayed from thread’s actual topic now.

 

[TaserFace007]

If you take Jade's zoning variation and replace the Up Glaive with the Pole Vault, it fills a big gap in her play style at the cost of a marginally useful ability and makes her far more solid. She still needs her fidget spinner to pop up on MB or something in order to make her punishes more than just slightly annoying.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

Make Raiden's storm cell last hit mid, instead of high!

 

[Wetdoba]

Ghost ball hits mid

 

[JBeezYBabY]

I’ll do you one better. I’ll fix all the bad characters with 1 change: allow custom variations in competitive play!

No other answer can top that. Righteous