Beta Black Canary Discussion/Tech Thread

[primedirective]

I haven't played a really good SG yet so I can't really comment on this. Is her db1 her wakeup?

Yezzir. Her vertical dragon punch looking thing. Rising Sun Strike. It goes straight up, comes out pretty fast, and cannot be parried (at least in my experience). It knocks Canary out of jump ins, crossups, Canary Drop, and MB Cartwheel and basically any other meaty attack. And if you bait it out, SG can meter burn it in the air to go into a flying state and delay her dropdown - which usually ends with a falling 1 (which has 4 frames startup and 20 frames active IIRC). So it's screwing with my pressure immensely.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Yezzir. Her vertical dragon punch looking thing. Rising Sun Strike. It goes straight up, comes out pretty fast, and cannot be parried (at least in my experience). It knocks Canary out of jump ins, crossups, Canary Drop, and MB Cartwheel and basically any other meaty attack. And if you bait it out, SG can meter burn it in the air to go into a flying state and delay her dropdown - which usually ends with a falling 1 (which has 4 frames startup and 20 frames active IIRC). So it's screwing with my pressure immensely.

I thought so. What little I have played against SG that has messed me up. Granted, like I said, I haven't played a really good one yet, but I was baiting the wake up and using ji2 to catch her right after she MB. I don't know how fast she can throw something out after MB so that may not be viable.

Her j1 seems to beat Canary's jump normals as well. Is that true?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Ok so what are you doing then? Getting passed his zoning is whatever, but then what?

You have to get passed his f2 range into the range she does well. I take plenty of games off plenty of SM players too. But any SM that knows how to play against her will keep her outside of that and anytime you make a wrong read with parry, cartwheel or even trait cause like I mentioned, he can jump over her trait even without air dash, you take half life damage into a dive bomb setup, full screen or f2 pressure.

And if she gets hit at all during trait, don't know what frame it becomes active but it can get stuffed completely or it will trade sending them full screen.

Spacing, man. You gotta space him out. Just like how he spaces you to set you up for a f23 whiff punish, you gotta do the same thing. Space his f23 and punish on whiff. Having a parry is a threat regardless. Doesn't matter if he can bait it or not. It's still a parry that leads into huge damage if you MB it.

Don't use trait AT ALL unless he's starting up his laser, blocked an air laser, descending from his jump or moving recklessly. I feel like BC's throw out trait the moment they have level 3 and that's so wrong (not saying you do). You're a HUGE threat to him once you have lvl 3 trait and that fear alone will give you the opportunity to play your game.

Yea he takes half life into setups but so do we lol. His is actually full combo punishable and ours isn't. Keep that in mind

 

[Crimson Panther]

Spacing, man. You gotta space him out. Just like how he spaces you to set you up for a f23 whiff punish, you gotta do the same thing. Space his f23 and punish on whiff. Having a parry is a threat regardless. Doesn't matter if he can bait it or not. It's still a parry that leads into huge damage if you MB it.

Don't use trait AT ALL unless he's starting up his laser, blocked an air laser, descending from his jump or moving recklessly. I feel like BC's throw out trait the moment they have level 3 and that's so wrong (not saying you do). You're a HUGE threat to him once you have lvl 3 trait and that fear alone will give you the opportunity to play your game.

Yea he takes half life into setups but so do we lol. His is actually full combo punishable and ours isn't. Keep that in mind

True, her damage is insane for about the same amount of resources. And the spacing I'm still playing with as well. In my really long post I mentioned getting him to whiff F2 is easy, it's the follow up 3 that difficult to get him to whiff as well unless the player isn't aware of spacing. The only real time I can do that is at the start with a backdash and immediately start walking forward. (It's the only one I've been able to get down).

Is it possible to parry the 3 in that string? If so, that may make it easier.

Her trait is interesting in this MU. Leaving him standing after opening him up is invaluable but she needs something to help get her in besides parry and b1/b2. What about trait management? Has anyone played with keeping trait at lvl 2? Leaves her +5 on block.

 

[scarsunseen]

Other than a corner re-stand, what use does a level 1 scream have? And what use does F2 have?

 

[Crimson Panther]

Other than a corner re-stand, what use does a level 1 scream have? And what use does F2 have?

lvl 1 doesn't stun and is a high. So far I've only seen it used mid combo for swag.

F2 doesn't lead to anything but is an overhead that catches backdashes on wake up. Other than that not much.

 

[scarsunseen]

i've only been using lvl 1 scream as a corner re-stand into 50/50

 

[Crimson Panther]

i've only been using lvl 1 scream as a corner re-stand into 50/50

Are you talking about lvl 3? How is lvl 1 restanding?

 

[Crimson Panther]

Can someone test b2 into d1 trait or knee midscreen?

 

[scarsunseen]

Are you talking about lvl 3? How is lvl 1 restanding?

In the corner, you can 23 or 21 into 112-trait (lvl 2 or 3), NJ2 112-bf2MB 112-trait(lvl 1) I believe.

 

[Crimson Panther]

In the corner, you can 23 or 21 into 112-trait (lvl 2 or 3), NJ2 112-bf2MB 112-trait(lvl 1) I believe.

Oh ok I see. I thought you were talking about in a juggle. That's cool though, isn't lvl 1 +30 or something on hit lol

 

[scarsunseen]

What do I do vs Blue Beetle? I'm just zoned out completely.

 

[Crimson Panther]

What do I do vs Blue Beetle? I'm just zoned out completely.

Feels like you have to wait for him to mess up or do something unsafe and punish. Cartwheel goes through projectiles if timed right. B2 goes under projectiles if timed correctly. And of course there's trait.

 

[scarsunseen]

Oh shit, u can parry the gap in Blue Beetle's 111

 

[Crimson Panther]

Those of you who have someone to test stuff with can we get some tech analysis on these things:

1. All strings Canary can parry
2. MB parry combos
3. B2 follow ups for both midscreen and corner (possible to do 1,1,2 in the corner)

Edit: I'll try to do these in game as well.

 

[B. Shazzy]

just spam that air special 50/50 what other "tech" do you need lul do I need to show everyone how to play this character too

 

[Crimson Panther]

just spam that air special 50/50 what other "tech" do you need lul do I need to show everyone how to play this character too

Oh you mean the air 50/50 that you have to be in the range we're talking about getting to?......yeah

 

[x TeeJay o]

Oh you mean the air 50/50 that you have to be in the range we're talking about getting to?......yeah

Don't feed the troll man

 

[x TeeJay o]

Lvl 3 CC MB parry combos

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 B3, JI2, 33, Bf2

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 112 1+3

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 B3 , JI2 xx Canary Drop


Lvl 2 CC MB Parry Combos

MB Parry F12 xx Trait dash(4x) 112 bf2

MB Parry F12 xx trait dash(4x) 112 1+3

Mb Parry f12 xx trait dash(4x) 2u3 b3, ji2 , 33 xx bf2

I forgot the damage percentages


Also I believe she can Parry supergirls 112 but I can't remember if it's consistent

 

[Crimson Panther]

Lvl 3 CC MB parry combos

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 B3, JI2, 33, Bf2

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 112 1+3

MB Parry F12 xx Trait Df3 B3 , JI2 xx Canary Drop


Lvl 2 CC MB Parry Combos

MB Parry F12 xx Trait dash(4x) 112 bf2

MB Parry F12 xx trait dash(4x) 112 1+3

Mb Parry f12 xx trait dash(4x) 2u3 b3, ji2 , 33 xx bf2

I forgot the damage percentages


Also I believe she can Parry supergirls 112 but I can't remember if it's consistent

Awesome! Thanks dude. Is F12 the only thing that will connect after the parry or is that just optimal damage?

 

[x TeeJay o]

Awesome! Thanks dude. Is F12 the only thing that will connect after the parry or is that just optimal damage?

Pretty sure you can connect b1, but then you'd be spending about 2 bars and ew that's ugly lol. But yeah f12 is your best option

 

[Raiderhorn]

Pretty sure you can connect b1, but then you'd be spending about 2 bars and ew that's ugly lol. But yeah f12 is your best option

Have you tried

MB Parry 2U1? Does it link? Haven't done any MB parries at all yet lol

 

[Crimson Panther]

Have you tried

MB Parry 2U1? Does it link? Haven't done any MB parries at all yet lol

I think it might push away too far for 2 to connect.

 

[primedirective]

I thought so. What little I have played against SG that has messed me up. Granted, like I said, I haven't played a really good one yet, but I was baiting the wake up and using ji2 to catch her right after she MB. I don't know how fast she can throw something out after MB so that may not be viable.

Her j1 seems to beat Canary's jump normals as well. Is that true?

SG j1 beats out almost everything of Canary's. You really have to be aware of it.

On an update: I was finding some success last night against SG's db1. I'd bait it out, then either backdash into lvl 3 trait or cartwheel underneath the MB for a Canary drop or timed f2 or jump in. Didn't help me in the corner, but at least it was a little helpful mid-screen. Though I don't particularly like having to use trait to open opponents up all the time due to it's obvious usefulness in extending damage in combos.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]