Current timer length.

[Undeadjim]

Having had the opportunity to play the beta over a few days and had a chance to play a good amount of time as Batman and explore how the game plays at a high level. There is only one criticism I have in terms of balance.

Currently the game is quite slow paced with the return of large stages and every so slightly increased walk speeds. On top of this with the current four beta characters showing the ability to zone to quite an effect, teching throws being much easier than I1 and MKX at higher levels the games pace is very slow and methodical. This brings me to my suggestion to increase the match timer.

Often games where me and my opponent are playing a very slow neutral we would both reach the second health bars with 30-20 seconds remaining on the clock. What this means is too often is the pace has suddenly changed for aggressors like Batman where I am required to all of sudden play like a complete nutcase regardless than I am on 80% compared to my opponents 90%. This 10% difference over 200% is enough to make those last 30 seconds a complete nightmare with the games clash system.

In matches where both characters are confident zoners and excel in space control it is not as apparent although a significant life deficit such as 30% places the leader in a position where turtling offers next to no risk and with the improve defensive options, using pushblock as a calculated choice becomes a big no brainer.

To give an estimate for estimates sake, I would make the timer 1.5 of its current version. Slow games would still result in potential time outs. However they will be as a result of a slower paced match throughout, rather than few select mistakes in the beginning 40 seconds often deciding the outcome.

There is also a poll include to see what the communities opinion on the matter is.

 

[Baconlord]

honestly I think the fact that the timer is much more of a factor then it's ever been in nrs games pretty cool. plus I'm sure games will start going faster when people start learning optimal damage and setups

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I both love and hate the timer it make meter management and clash much more important

 

[SaltShaker]

Anti-zoning zealotry is back stronger than ever!

 

[IrishMantis]

I feel that's a common trend NRS are having but I also appreciate them trying to switch it up.

It's always one extreme or the other

Super rushdown - Super zoning
No time outs - to a lot of time outs

I think putting the timer up to 99 would be the sweet spot

 

[Undeadjim]

honestly I think the fact that the timer is much more of a factor then it's ever been in nrs games pretty cool. plus I'm sure games will start going faster when people start learning optimal damage and setups

I've labbed with @UsedForGlue for a good few hours and even if we're not doing the most optimal were not a significant number away from it. An extra 2% of the two big combos that influenced a match is only a 4% difference where the timer is having a major effect at 60% and 70% from my experience.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Personally, I think the timer needs slowed down very slightly.

This will only add to the calculated play of the game, allowing much longer and intense calculated matches.

 

[DC4-3]

I think putting the timer up to 99 would be the sweet spot

^I'm voting for this.

 

[Baconlord]

I've labbed with @UsedForGlue for a good few hours and even if we're not doing the most optimal were not a significant number away from it. An extra 2% of the two big combos that influenced a match is only a 4% difference where the timer is having a major effect at 60% and 70% from my experience.

I'll default to you on this because haven't gotten into the beta yet, I'm just stating my thoughts on a slower timer. I do find it funny though that we have the complete opposite problem from mkx release

 

[Undeadjim]

I'll default to you on this because haven't gotten into the beta yet, I'm just stating my thoughts on a slower timer. I do find it funny though that we have the complete opposite problem from mkx release

I understand the viewpoint, and I do agree that as players get more efficient a few seconds will be earned as a result. I just don't believe it will be enough to make a difference to what I have played currently in the beta. The problem is the game offers a way of playing this slow. smart and calculated neutral but I don't believe the timer fits around the games pace at high level to a good enough degree.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

The timer is not on real time. lol. It says 90 seconds but it looks 180 seconds.

 

[UsedForGlue]

There is already lots of cool mechanics in this game. The combo escape move, and the clash system, these things need to be featured way more, and the longer matches will result in this.

A very slight addition to the time should be added as the game enters the last 30 seconds of a match very quickly because the timer doesn't restart between rounds, and the 90 second timer is shared between 4 life bars...so it should be longer.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

There is already lots of cool mechanics in this game. The combo escape move, and the clash system, these things need to be featured way more, and the longer matches will result in this.

But not a huge amount, a very slight addition to the time as the game enters the last 30 seconds very quickly because the timer doesn't restart, so it should be longer.

A shorter timer make clash and meter management aka should I use the escape more important

 

[Undeadjim]

A shorter timer make clash and meter management aka should I use the escape more important

Does it though? What I proposed in the original thread is that the short timer and life lead make these choices very straight forward. Being at 80% on the second life bar and having your opponent chase you across the football field of a stage in Injustice to watch you down back. As a result, forcing your opponent to play aggressive footsies while your sitting on up to four potential pushblocks, a clash the option to run away with roll or air escape that B3 launcher.

I'm not against someone laming someone out like this but from my experience this isn't happening at 30% 20% 10% this is happening as high as 80% to 90% life totals.

EDIT: Because of these high life totals, I am missing the chances where I successfully bait the spending of the bars defensively and are able to use mine to chip. This is a huge difference with the current life totals I've been experiencing removing a smart play from an aggressor, but if you guys have different experiences let me know.

 

[ghostwriteous]

One thing I know is that they should make the timer itself bigger. Especially if its going to move so fast.

 

[zerosebaz]

I havent played the beta, and haven't really watched so many matches, but when I did watch i saw a lot of timeouts. It was really surpising. It looks like a race against time, and it probably shouldn't be.

 

[Law Hero]

I definitely think the timer is too short.

I know people feel strongly about how much of a factor the timer should be, but for me, the only reason a timer exists is to make sure a match doesn't go on forever due to a player running away just to annoy/troll the other person. In general, I think the game is really fun so far, and the matches are always really intense, so there is really no need for the timer to be an issue.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I agree

 

[Pan1cMode]

1 tick of the in game timer is equal to 1.5 real life seconds.

This is equivalent to MKX( but not the MKXL where the timer is in real seconds) however the timer resets between rounds in MK.

Injustice 1 had the timer be 1 in game second = 2 real life seconds (iirc)

The current timer is 90 ticks (i.e. 135s). If they increased the timer to 99/100 ticks, that would make each game approximately 2 and a half minutes (slightly longer since transitions, clash animations and supers occur without the timer continuing).

Seems reasonable.

I have yet to play the beta, but it may be in the final game explosive damage will become more of a thing along with mobility punishes using mb roll. With the increase in chip damage and the presence of characters with strong block pressure, it may be the faster timer is NRS's way of balancing out MB roll and other offensive mechanics.

 

[1man3letters]

I think putting the timer up to 99 would be the sweet spot

yea my vote would go to this

 

[Undeadjim]

Bumping the thread with a few tags as I want this to be discussed as much as possible given our ability to essential test the game along with the online before the game gets released.

@YOMI FOREVER KING @YOMI Zyphox @HoneyBee @Dragon_FGC @Red Raptor @SonicFox5000 @PND_Ketchup @PND_Mustard @Tweedy @michaelangelo @REO

Please feel free to tag more people I have just tagged a few of you I have saw playing the beta that haven't posted.

 

[Immortal]

Yep, there is no doubt in my mind after playing the beta for a week that increasing timer to 1.5 of its current length is the right way to go.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

The timer is ALWAYS a factor early in fighting games bc people do not have bnbs/mix ups/offense down. Leave it as is.

 

[KingHippo]

I meant to comment earlier, but I did want to mention that this topic is a breath of fresh air as it feels like we're now talking mechanics instead of other fluff.

I am of two minds on this:

1) Sub-optimal play is always a false signal when it comes to something like this. I could think of numerous games where early build/beta/public build play is full of timeout after timeout because one of the easiest things to figure out is mobility and using it to avoid attacks, so naturally people stoop to that to keep up a streak on a console or what have you. Typically what has happened is this turns out to be a red herring, and optimal play evolves when people know how to damage someone for making a mistake and using mobility to chase rather than to just avoid.

However...

2) There are just as many examples of the "2 lifebar" type game where the clock becomes a big factor because the game does not move past that initial runaway type meta. SFxT is the biggest example I can think of, where a combination of life recovery, overall safety, and long stages made for very easy timeouts. If we look across to see what other fighters are doing, Killer Instinct also uses two lifebars but has very long seconds; I don't know the exact time, but it's probably akin to the IGAU 2 seconds per actual second, maybe even more. Timeouts aren't really a huge deal in that game.

So there are my two trains of thought and where they sort of collide. There are also a lot of additional factors to think about: do we have a bad sampling of characters? Batman and Superman are not characters who are going to open people up as easily and so they may suffer a bit, but Atrocitus and Supergirl have a more potent game available that can steal lives very quickly. And even though Superman does not have out of this world mixups, his damage is still incredibly high when he does land that hit.

IGAU, aside from one particular big moment I can think of, never got to the timeout stage because the average damage a character dealt was about 40-45, so only two good hits were really necessary to take a full life bar. Not only that, there weren't many opportunities to get out of those combos except for the clash. I2 brings along the air ukemi, which I don't have enough data to really see its effects on timer and play.

The mobility decrease will also play a factor, but again, that takes time and data. I think, at this time, it's a little too hard to make a judgement call, especially when the level of play is still very low. I do agree the long stages and reduced mobility are calls for concern, but I'd rather see a bigger sample size of character before making a hard-line judgement.