POLL: Additional Moves for tournament play.

[Zoidberg747]

You're not guessing, you can see them before a fight and read the description if you don't already know what they do.
Also isn't there a way to avoid that super, like dash out or sumtn?

Its a 2 frame super. Anyone with half a brain could land it if its unblockable.

 

[Rathalos]

This has more to do with gear stats and levels and all that jazz, but I just thought it was funny.

But really the last thing Superman needs is an ex mid heat zap.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I just think NRS should make some of the special moves part of the base character. Batman should honestly have the normal cape parry and the mb version as part of his base moveset. It's kinda sad that that parry will never see legit play, because imo that should definitely be part of Batman's move set. And make the shitty flashbang one the unlockable gear one.

 

[TopTierHarley]

SMH, not even going to try it out and see where it goes. Didn't try something different with variations, won't try something different with abilities. Laughable honestly.

 

[Jynks]

What I wanted was a simple quick to apply (so not slow down events) affects that you could place on your character to make a custom variation. Kind of like a MMO talent tree.

I see no reason the new abilities can not be used in events assuming that they are quick to apply.

Most likely only a few "builds" will float to the top and be used anyway.

The real question is if the new abilities will go though testing for balance.

Without the ability to use the new skills in real games, I can not even see people using them at all in some ways. Like I said before, why put all the effort into learning combos and muscle memory when you can not actually use any of it.

I mean Ketchup just posted some combo video and in the vide he is using a gear ability... so all that work and all t hose combos are actually worthless.

 

[Swindle]

Seriously...has no one read that superman has an UNBLOCKABLE super move as one of his unlockable abilities.....

He needs it.

 

[DownfouralitY]

Its a 2 frame super. Anyone with half a brain could land it if its unblockable.

The unblockable version has much longer startup. I've been hit by it once but after that I was able to avoid it by dashing, it's fairly slow. There's probably setups for where you can land it easier like off of a hard knockdown or something, but as of right now it's not that bad.

 

[SaSSolino]

You see, there's people who compete, and then there's people who compete professionally. As in; it's their job, it's how they earn a living. I don't compete professionally, in fact a majority of everyone here doesn't compete professionally. But why would anyone, professional or just competitive, want something that's more than likely broken just for the sake of fun? Yes fighting games are fun, playing games are fun. But if you want to have fun, play casual matches. The moment you put money on the line and play as hard as you can, it's competitive and you can't have a competitive game with things like that.

It's not good for the scene, it's not good for the game in the long run. If you play with gear then play casuals with it not in tournament.

Tournaments are made for spectators as much as competitors, maybe even more so. If you can't win money prizes with the game rules, it's not the game's, spectator's or developers' problem.

I'm sorry, but I think your point is completely irrelevant. The way I see it, you can only hope that the developers make the decision that suits you the most, but they shouldn't be concerned by you (alone) as someone else might have your same problem but reversed.

 

[Altaire]

They could EASILY do this.

Think of CoD's create a class. They give you X amount of slots...some perks cost 1 slot, some 2.

Think of this nearly the exact same way.

Think of this nearly the exact same way, except it's actually "all the possibilities of CoD's create a class x 40", since COD doesn't have a few dozen characters. 40 is just a ballpark number, to be clear, and I'm sure it's on the low end of what we can expect over the game's lifespan. The exact value doesn't really matter; my point is it amounts to "(a) characters x (b) possibilities", where (a) represents a shitload and (b) represents another shitload.

Yeah, it's a cool concept to think about, until you realize that more possibilities = more balance issues. Always. This doesn't necessarily mean a game with more options is going to be less balanced than a game with fewer options, but it will be harder to balance. Be amazed that MKX is as good a game as it is, because with 3 variations for each character to account for (and 4 for that extra special someone), NRS had their work cut out for them. This poll is the same general idea, except it's a game with more characters, and you're essentially letting people build their own variations from all the options available. Anyone who has ever felt frustrated with MKX's balance (I said it's good, not perfect) can probably try to imagine a world in which MKX not only allows you to mix and match all of the variation differences, but also has a bigger roster to further complicate the issue.

I don't think I need to paint you a picture, here.

Now, the one thing the devs COULD do (and I still find this unlikely) is implement presets for each character. If each character had two presets with alternate gear/movelists, that's more or less the equivalent of MKX's three variations. I always wondered why Smash 4 didn't take this route, because the general consensus seems to be that some of the worst characters are made significantly better by swapping out specials. If anything like this did happen with IGAU, I would assume it'd be later in the game's lifespan, around the time it gets the MKXL treatment, because this late in a game's dev cycle, it's pretty much "done". NRS could also implement this very easily, but that doesn't mean they will. MKX's variation system was a great idea, but again, it obviously makes balancing the game much more difficult. This would be no different. If NRS just doesn't want to bother with all that added complication, I can't blame them. Regardless, that seems like the only way an idea like this could ever see the light of day.

 

[supernumian]

Do 3 type of game:

1) tournament: no abilities, no gear. Just the char.
2) competitive: all abilities unlocked, gear doesn't affect stats but only aesthetics
3) normal: abilities, gear with stats and so on

So we can see what's happen.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Think of this nearly the exact same way, except it's actually "all the possibilities of CoD's create a class x 40", since COD doesn't have a few dozen characters. 40 is just a ballpark number, to be clear, and I'm sure it's on the low end of what we can expect over the game's lifespan. The exact value doesn't really matter; my point is it amounts to "(a) characters x (b) possibilities", where (a) represents a shitload and (b) represents another shitload.

Yeah, it's a cool concept to think about, until you realize that more possibilities = more balance issues. Always. This doesn't necessarily mean a game with more options is going to be less balanced than a game with fewer options, but it will be harder to balance. Be amazed that MKX is as good a game as it is, because with 3 variations for each character to account for (and 4 for that extra special someone), NRS had their work cut out for them. This poll is the same general idea, except it's a game with more characters, and you're essentially letting people build their own variations from all the options available. Anyone who has ever felt frustrated with MKX's balance (I said it's good, not perfect) can probably try to imagine a world in which MKX not only allows you to mix and match all of the variation differences, but also has a bigger roster to further complicate the issue.

I don't think I need to paint you a picture, here.

Now, the one thing the devs COULD do (and I still find this unlikely) is implement presets for each character. If each character had two presets with alternate gear/movelists, that's more or less the equivalent of MKX's three variations. I always wondered why Smash 4 didn't take this route, because the general consensus seems to be that some of the worst characters are made significantly better by swapping out specials. If anything like this did happen with IGAU, I would assume it'd be later in the game's lifespan, around the time it gets the MKXL treatment, because this late in a game's dev cycle, it's pretty much "done". NRS could also implement this very easily, but that doesn't mean they will. MKX's variation system was a great idea, but again, it obviously makes balancing the game much more difficult. This would be no different. If NRS just doesn't want to bother with all that added complication, I can't blame them. Regardless, that seems like the only way an idea like this could ever see the light of day.

You're confusing swapping special moves with variations which literally were 3 unique characters. Learning each of these was like learning a brand new character. Many had different normals and strings to add onto the unique specials and characterisitics.

I think they COULD work it in if they had to...but for the sake of not learning all of the frame data on those specials and running into inevitable bullshit...I do think no unique specials is the way to go. I'm just saying it is possible.

 

[Altaire]

You're confusing swapping special moves with variations which literally were 3 unique characters. Learning each of these was like learning a brand new character. Many had different normals and strings to add onto the unique specials and characterisitics.

I think they COULD work it in if they had to...but for the sake of not learning all of the frame data on those specials and running into inevitable bullshit...I do think no unique specials is the way to go. I'm just saying it is possible.

Yes, learning each variation was like learning a brand new character.

For like, 10 out of the 100 that are in the game. 10 is being generous. There's an exact 100 with all DLC included, by the way, I always found that to be a weirdly poetic coincidence.

Are you really going to tell me that all three of Reptile's variations are like entirely different characters? All three of Raiden's? All three of Goro's? All three of Dvorah's? For the majority of variations in the game, the difference IS mostly (if not entirely) a different set of specials. Cassie. Kotal. Mileena. Liu. Tremor. For some, it's far less than that. Yes, some variations are essentially an entirely new character (DN Tanya, KJ Kenshi, BS Shinnok, etc). That number is smaller than you seem to think. Most of them are the same basic moveset with some differences in the specials. How is this any different from "Batman's up spark is turned into an up batarang"? By no means am I complaining, because I think MKX is probably the best-made game NRS has put out. I'm just saying that "each variation is like a new character, man" is a vastly overstated rhetoric. A few are, most aren't.

Like, some of these variations (again, Reptile comes to mind) amount to "here's the same character with a new trait" in IGAU terms. How is that any different than what certain gear combinations will give you? I'm sure no combination of gear is going to drastically alter how a character plays, to the extent that some of the more distinct variations did, but the premise is more or less the same. The core concept is more or less the same. On average, over the 100 variations in MKX, I'm sure that altering certain specials and/or traits for some characters will be equivalent to a change of variation. Again, even if NRS ever takes this route, it probably won't be until the game gets a major title update, and if NRS decided against it purely to save themselves the headache of all that additional balance, no one could fault them. There's also the potential fallout of "the game was pretty balanced, then these new variations came out and fucked everything up". Even if that -isn't- objectively the case, you know a lot of people will be saying it, the moment they have trouble adapting to the changes. I wouldn't be surprised if this idea occurred to the design team, and they just considered it an afterthought.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I'd like to see people try it out, but there's a lot of moves already in there that seem kinda nuts.

I'm making a video this evening about Atrocitus Pillar of Blood because that move is insane.

 

[Lokheit]

Seriously guys, I still haven't seen a single custom move that improves a character even 20% of what "Base Sub-Zero gains Klone", "Base Reptile gains Flash Trait" or "Base Mileena gains Fade" did. You're all acting like these custom moves are dope when most of them are either meh or just upgrade and replace an existing one.

The biggest offender for what I read from you so far seems to be Supes unblockable which has already been reported to be slower and you need all your meter so you're not going to see them too often (and opening for a 1 bar combo for the same damage tends to be a better use of resources than using all of your meter anyway, I can see mostly scrubs using that one as they love to unleash super attacks in any game because they can't combo and it's their only way of getting big damage). And of course everything can be toned down before release.

If there is a way to quickly change your custom moves from the select screen (or some sort of build list, they said they would do something so a player would keep its unlocked stuff on any console, so maybe players could log with WBID and have their presets stored there, which would also be cool to always have their prefered appearance stored) and all moves are available in tournaments, I don't see the harm on making a character a bit better at some aspects of the game.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Batman having the double batarang or an air projectile instead of the air sparkles means you will have to spend a huge lot of extra hours labbing that matchup? While we're at it lets play MKX without variations as they were clearly intended for the casual crowd and that way the amount of balance needed is dramatically lower #nerfVariationlessReptile

 

[The_Tile]

The main talking point of "2 FRAMEZ UNBLOCKABLE SUPER BRUH" is completely ignoring the fact that:
1. This is a beta
2. If these ARE used in competitive play they'll be balanced accordingly, obviously that wouldn't stay
3. Even if they aren't balanced accordingly, if something is too busted the community can choose to ban it
4. You all keep saying "HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYING THE BETA BRUH!?!", no I haven't and obviously neither have you seeing as someone just came in here and let everyone know when this ability it active it slows down the super so it's not 2framez anymore. Quite hypocritical, no?

 

[Altaire]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Batman having the double batarang or an air projectile instead of the air sparkles means you will have to spend a huge lot of extra hours labbing that matchup? While we're at it lets play MKX without variations as they were clearly intended for the casual crowd and that way the amount of balance needed is dramatically lower #nerfVariationlessReptile

Actually, yeah. That is what I'm trying to tell you.

First off, saying "I haven't seen any gear specials that are as different as x was in y variation" isn't worth a whole lot, considering how little we've actually seen. What is it, like, a four character build with (what we can only assume) is a fraction of the total gear options for -those- characters alone? It'd be like if I said "none of the DLC characters are going to be top five in IGAU, guys. We've seen Lobo and he doesn't look THAT great." Knock. On. Wood.

More importantly, it isn't just "Batman having the double batarang or an air projectile". It's either, or both, or both + more, or any number of other alternate specials for Batman. That's one character. Repeat this process for the entire cast. With variations, you could at least narrow it down to generalizations like "GM Sub has the ice clone, UB Sub has the weird aura and a parry, cryo Sub mostly just does more damage with his BnBs". Imagine if you now had to keep track of every individual special that each of his variations has, because now you could get them in any arrangement, at any time. It was difficult enough just to have "real" matchup experience against every variation in MKX. You now have to essentially improvise based on what assortment of alt specials your opponent brings for THIS game, if gear effects are on. There's, what, 30 characters + 9 DLC at launch, if I'm remembering this correctly (I may not be)? Let's assume, just to play devil's advocate, that there's another movelist worth of alt specials per character. You can't be giving this a lot of thought if you think it isn't a "huge lot of extra time", because that's -twice- the amount of time you'd have to put in normally. It could be more than that, for all we know.

I mean, how many of you even knew the Sheeva matchup in MK9? The Cyborg matchup in IGAU? How many of you know the DN Tanya matchup? I sure as hell don't. This is just silly.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Actually, yeah. That is what I'm trying to tell you.

First off, saying "I haven't seen any gear specials that are as different as x was in y variation" isn't worth a whole lot, considering how little we've actually seen. What is it, like, a four character build with (what we can only assume) is a fraction of the total gear options for -those- characters alone? It'd be like if I said "none of the DLC characters are going to be top five in IGAU, guys. We've seen Lobo and he doesn't look THAT great." Knock. On. Wood.

More importantly, it isn't just "Batman having the double batarang or an air projectile". It's either, or both, or both + more, or any number of other alternate specials for Batman. That's one character. Repeat this process for the entire cast. With variations, you could at least narrow it down to generalizations like "GM Sub has the ice clone, UB Sub has the weird aura and a parry, cryo Sub mostly just does more damage with his BnBs". Imagine if you now had to keep track of every individual special that each of his variations has, because now you could get them in any arrangement, at any time. It was difficult enough just to have "real" matchup experience against every variation in MKX. You now have to essentially improvise based on what assortment of alt specials your opponent brings for THIS game, if gear effects are on. There's, what, 30 characters + 9 DLC at launch, if I'm remembering this correctly (I may not be)? Let's assume, just to play devil's advocate, that there's another movelist worth of alt specials per character. You can't be giving this a lot of thought if you think it isn't a "huge lot of extra time", because that's -twice- the amount of time you'd have to put in normally. It could be more than that, for all we know.

I mean, how many of you even knew the Sheeva matchup in MK9? The Cyborg matchup in IGAU? How many of you know the DN Tanya matchup? I sure as hell don't. This is just silly.

Do you only speak in novels?

 

[Altaire]

Do you only speak in novels?

Yeah, more or less.

Any other questions?

 

[DarksydeDash]

I voted yes but it's really difficult to see how they will be played in a competitive scene.

1. Gear is unlocked not earned
2. How could they make it aesthetic and have it's special properties
3. Match-up knowledge would be a nightmare
4. If a match was lost or just starting they'd have the option of making a new preset and saving it which would bring the hype wwaayyy down.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Every feature of a game does not have to be used for competitive purposes.

The extra moves can be something for fun, for replay value that can be used casually, just like gear can be used for this prupose or for changing up aesthetics. We didn't use tag for serious competitive play in MK9 for example. Just because a feature is in a game does NOT mean it has to be used.

It was and still is hard to learn match ups in MKX because of variations except for this sounds like it will be even harder to learn match ups as there are mix and match slots from what I understand.

We should be aiming for simple, logical and most likely to be balanced as possible. The more variables you add, the less likely a game will be balanced.

I had thought the experience of MKX would make people more skeptical.

You're right but fuck Batmans high batarangs and new parry, so I voted yes lmao

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Seriously...has no one read that superman has an UNBLOCKABLE super move as one of his unlockable abilities.....

Backdash it

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Yeah, more or less.

Any other questions?

Lmao I'm not hating but dang it's so early for these long replies haha

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Superman has an air heat zap you can unlock. I don't even want to think about the balance behind that. Gear is for casual players. Don't make this the new SFxT.

Also you can't have a poll about this on here. Too many people who this decision won't effect even in the slightest can vote on this platform.