General/Other - War God War God Suggested Changes

[ArmedCalf]

Don't know anything about Kotal but this just seems like you're trying to close up holes everywhere. -30 doesn't make a difference when you'd be giving yourself set-play mix.

 

[Tanno]

I like your changes suggestions, because whatever you do you'll get frozen.

 

[ATP2014]

@x-azeez In the new meta, Kotal needs to be tweaked a bit. However, I think it would be a better idea to nerf the other forward advancing, safe and hit-confirmable mids rather than give Kotal all these frames.

The only major changes I would implement would be better hit advantage on low sword and air grab. Nothing ridiculous, but at least let Kotal get some pressure. Been saying this since pre-MKXL, the reward for landing these attacks is minimal.

 

[Cooljaxx]

No.

 

[JuicyJust1n]

Kotal lost his armoured luncher and lost most of his pressure game with b1 now being a high. I would like to see one of these return as war god just feels like a completely different character now. The armoured luncher somehow would have to be 2 bars but don't know how they could get that in there now with his move set.

War god was my main for about 9 months but I dropped him earlier this year and don't think i will be going back with the current patch. He just seems like there are to many holes in his game.

I also don't think I have seen him in a tournament top 8 since the new patch has been out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lokheit]

I read most of the reasoning in the OP as "Jason should be toned down because the shit he can get away with is crazy" rather than "Kotal should be toned up".

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

WG can't rely on armored footsies anymore, but he's still very playable and has some of the best wake ups in the game. We definitely need more time with the patch, before we can even come close to asking for nerfs/buffs like this. Plus, it seems very likely that this was the last patch, so not sure why we even bother with these sorts of threads.

 

[Skedar70]

This is ridiculous. People don't want a balanced game. They want their characters to be broken.

Make Kitanas fans a mid and make F2 an OH. Why? Because Cybernetics knifes are mid and Ninjutsus F2 is a launching OH. GTFO

 

[Meep8345]

You are crazy if you are wanting Kotal of all characters to be buffed this much lol. He's fine how he is to me also f12 doesn't even need to be +1, you have a 6f d4 that hits at that range and I'm pretty certain even his d1 will.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I voted hell yeah, fuck the police.

Also stop blowing up Azeez, He is listing all the possible changes that would make wargod tournament viable again just so one or two of them would be considered. Everyone of us want our characters to be better and if you actually play kotal you'd know that he is pretty lacking now after the nerfs and does need a few improvements.

 

[CrazyFingers]

I voted hell yeah, fuck the police.

Also stop blowing up Azeez, He is listing all the possible changes that would make wargod tournament viable again just so one or two of them would be considered. Everyone of us want our characters to be better and if you actually play kotal you'd know that he is pretty lacking now after the nerfs and does need a few improvements.

Unless you're playing Sun God. Sun God doesn't have nearly as much of an issue

 

[CrazyFingers]

Which is why we need to be super careful with this character. Do we REALLY want Sun God to have a 7f high that tick throws and catches back dashes AND back jumps?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Don't get me wrong I want War God to be good again too but we need to be careful as to not break Sun God in the process.

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[omooba]

War God and Universal suggested changes. (( with examples & explanations ))



* B1 --- remains a High, but reduce its startup to 7 ( from 9 )

why give him a faster advancing high ?

(( Tremor's F1 is 6 frames , Advancing High ))
(( Triborg F1 is 7 frames , Advancing High ))

This will give him a better punisher for moves that are -8 or more,

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* B122 --- Becomes -7 on block ( from -10 ) ----- why make it -7 on block :

(( Triborg F121 is -8 block , Advancing High ))
(( Jason B121 is -8 on block , Advancing Mid ))
(( Tremor F121 is +2 on block , Advancing High ))
(( Piercing B12 is -1 on block , Advancing High ))
(( D'vorah F112 is -5 (( not sure )) 12 frame Advancing Mid ))
(( Jax F212 is +1 on block ))

All the moves above are special cancellable (( Except for Jason & Jax ))
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* B12 --- Should have better upward hitbox.--- to catch jumping back opponents, Kotal players knows what i'm talking about.

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* F12 --- becomes +1 on block ( from -1 )

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* F1B2 --- Becomes -10 on block ( from -13 ) --- This string currently launches and F1 is currently an 11 frame mid normal

Why make it -10 on Block ?

Jason B121 a launcher and is -8 on block. (( it launches for a full combo, and B1 is a 13 frame advancing mid ))


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* 212 is +1 on block ( from -1 ) --- 212 has a gap between 21(gap)2, making it +1 will give the Kotal player a reason to use that string.

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* B32 becomes +3 on block ( from +2 )

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* B2 becomes +1 on block ( from -6 ) ----- this move is a super slow advancing overhead and has 26 startup frames.

Why make it + on block ?

(( Goro's F4 has 20 startup frames and leaves him at +4 ))
(( Tremor's F2 is super slow but leaves him around +3 or more ... not sure of the exact number, i have to check again.
(( Jason's F3 is +9 on block ))

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* DB2 Low Sword --- Becomes -11 on block ( from -15 )

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* EX DB2 --- Extend the frames on the armor

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* DB3 sword shake --- The unblockable has better recovery

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* DF2 --- Becomes 17 frames ( frome 26 )

Why make it 17 frames ?

so that War God can have a safe ( - 5 on block ) special to cancel it after B122 .... (( Currently if the move is cancelled after a B122, it will create a Gap. ))

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* EX DF2 --- Remains 26 frames, with 2 hits of armor

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* DB1 Overhead Sword --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -18 )

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* EX DB1 Overhead --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -14 )

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EDIT: if you don't like a certain change ... ask me and i'll explain the reason behind it

first of f1,2 being plus?!?! what the FUCK
secondly if b1,2,2 is safe then he doesn't need to jail it into df2.
b3,2 being more plus is unnecessary same thing with b2.
other than that i'm good

 

[DDutchguy]

I voted hell yeah, fuck the police.

Also stop blowing up Azeez, He is listing all the possible changes that would make wargod tournament viable again just so one or two of them would be considered. Everyone of us want our characters to be better and if you actually play kotal you'd know that he is pretty lacking now after the nerfs and does need a few improvements.

The issue is his reasoning behind the changes. If you want certain aspect of a character buffed or nerfed then that's fine, just give a good explanation as to why you think these changes are necessary. "Because other characters have these things" is not proper reasoning as to why your own character should be changed.

As for the buffs where that reasoning doesn't apply:

F12 --- becomes +1 on block ( from -1 )

Disagree, because it would make for F12, D4 or F12, [something else] shenanigans that just lead to a dumb neutral.

* B12 --- Should have better upward hitbox.--- to catch jumping back opponents, Kotal players knows what i'm talking about.

I can see the reasoning in this. Sure, why not (not combined with 7-frame B1 though).

* B2 becomes +1 on block ( from -6 ) ----- this move is a super slow advancing overhead and has 26 startup frames.

+1 for Kotal is pretty powerful because of his 6-frame pokes. I'd advise against this change. Besides, Kotal already has F4 so this change doesn't seem very necessary.

* DB2 Low Sword --- Becomes -11 on block ( from -15 )

Disagree, -11 with pushback is extremely difficult for a lot of characters to punish and will lead to some bothersome safe mixing.

* EX DB2 --- Extend the frames on the armor

Sure.

* DB3 sword shake --- The unblockable has better recovery

DB3 is pretty bad so I agree with this change.

* DF2 --- Becomes 17 frames ( frome 26 )

Why make it 17 frames ?

so that War God can have a safe ( - 5 on block ) special to cancel it after B122 .... (( Currently if the move is cancelled after a B122, it will create a Gap. ))

Not everything Kotal does has to be safe and gapless.

* EX DF2 --- Remains 26 frames, with 2 hits of armor

Not entirely sure about this one. Safe armored wakeup for Kotal is something I'm a bit iffy about.

* DB1 Overhead Sword --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -18 )

-30 is a bit much, I'd say like -22 if you do feel like it being full combo punishable by everyone.

* EX DB1 Overhead --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -14 )

EX-DB1 has very little (practically no) pushback so -30 is unnecessary. I'd say like -18 at best, it's not too difficult to punish.

 

[Tweedy]

Azeez, do you and Tekken Master still believe in War God?

Because I don't tbh and I've tried a little bit. Why not just use Jason?

 

[gam224]

Dude just... Why ? This game isn't getting another patch

 

[Osagri]

F12 doesn't need to be plus. It gives u perfect space for d4. Back walk to wiff punish. B1 is fine how it is, no need for tweaks, it's still great for wiff punishing.
B2 crushes low so no need imo to make it plus,or even more safe

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Let take a look at Tremor ... he is basically a super improved version of Kotal Kahn with Projectile Zoning options with an easy way to get in with F121 which leaves him at +2. same as kotal's B122 which gets him in easily ... but why make it -10 on block.


Also which point do you want me to explain ... i wrote a lot of points

I could see that. And all of em fam lol. I see you did give good cases for some of them but if the NRS guys come across this thread and saw some changes and they saw a legit case to why these changes should be made then I think that would make it more likely. Trust me I want Kotal to get buffed, he's the only character I dropped after the patch entirely

 

[Darth-Nero]

The issue is his reasoning behind the changes. If you want certain aspect of a character buffed or nerfed then that's fine, just give a good explanation as to why you think these changes are necessary. "Because other characters have these things" is not proper reasoning as to why your own character should be changed.

I too think that "X character have this then Y should have it too" is bad reasoning in most cases but the guy is almost screaming " ask about the buff and i shall give you a proper prolonged reasoning", It is not a crime that he didn't want to open a thread with a novel.

oh well, i don't think we'll get anything but a couple of hotfixes at this point so i don't bother much joining discussions in threads like these.

 

[Error]

Any buff thread that has more than 5 changes gets a no from me

 

[x-azeez]

i listed the reasons for each change in the OP

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Reasons for a certain change:

* Why B1 should be 7 frames ?

Kotal doesn't have a fast punishing move except for 9 frame B1. his other fastest normals are D1 (6f) / D4 (6f) / D2 (7f) / D3 (7f) / S1 (10F) F1 (11f)

* Why B122 Should be -7 on block ?

Kotal's B1 is a high and second part of the string comes in 12 frames ( not sure, need to check later ) ... so you can poke if you reacted to it or anything that come in mind for the character that you're choosing,

B122 is one of Kotal's few tools to get in, but the problem is, is that he can't get in safely, and with this string he reaps few rewards

* Why B12 should have upward hitbox ?

to catch jumping back opponents .... this will help kotal stop random jumping back opponents.

* Why should F12 becomes +1 ?

so that after a blocked F12, the opponent can't jump if i went fora followed up D4. if the opponent tried to jump, he will get caught with Kotal's D4

* Why Should F1B2 becomes -10 ?

lol .. i don't have a good reason ... being -10 would be too OP

* why should 212 becomes +1 ?

the move is rarely used ... being plus would give the Kotal player to use it more often a mix it up with his other normals and strings and not be repetative ... and BTW this move has a gap.

* Why should B32 become +3 ... so that Kotal can cross jump the opponent for another mix up ... even with it being +2, the opponent can still poke Kotal if he tried to forward jump after being +2 ... making it +3 will enable Kotal to jump forward. that's what 1 extra frame can do.

even with 114xx air grab which leaves kotal at +4 on block ... the opponent will still poke back because they are taking minimal risk knowing they'll only get hit with a follow up poke and not a full string.

* Why B2 should be +1 ?

to be honest .. no kotal player use this move on purpose. it only comes out by accident trying to do B122 but they miss-time it and B2 comes out by accident. that's why i suggested it being +1. because no kotal player use it ... and if you see kotal players use it ... just know that they used it by accident and not on purpose ...... @TheGangstaFace , can you confirm this ?

* Why Should DB2 becomes -11 on block ?

i have no good reason why it should be -11 .. it should stay -15 ... and there is no essential need for it anymore except for mixup purposes, since i have the new 17F DF2 to make Kotal pokes, normals and strings safer by cancelling it with DF2

* Why should i extend the armor frames on EX DB2 ?

because armor frames ends before he even hits the opponent.

* Why should DB3 unblockable should recovery faster ?

currently it takes an eternity to recover, like more than 100 recovery frames ... it should reduce by half

* why should DF2 becomes 17 frames ?

so that Kotal can have a fast safe special to cancel it after Pokes, Normals & Strings. instead of Overhead Sword ( DB1 ) which currently is -18, and with my suggestion will be -30

@omooba B122 is indeed -7 with my suggestion, but it leaves Kotal super close to the opponent, but cancelling it with the new DF2, it will create a distance due to its pushback. and give kotal many options on how to approach next.

* Why should EX DF2 remains 26 frames and has 2 hits of armor ?

this move is 26 frames. you can poke and still block in time, or better yet, you can safely jump-in/ Cross jump-in punch and you can still block on time when you react to it.

he needs it because currently, WG Kotal has the worst wake-up reversals in the game.

* Why Should DB1 becomes -30 on block ?

this will create a huge mindgame for Kotal, because the opponent will know that the overhead is super punishable now with a full combo. Currently its used after B122 because it doesn't have a gap, but now with the new DF2, he doesn't need to used it, except for mixup purpose. because imo, WG is Designed to a footsies character, but he should have safe fast mid specials like the change i suggested for DF2.

* Why Should EX DB1 becomes -30 on block ?

because this is an OVERHEAD Launcher that leads to 32% midscreen and 34% in the corner ... imo all Low and Overhead launcher should be punishable by death ....

Also EX DB1 often goes unpunished by most of the cast due to its pushback, even though its -14 on block

 

[thlityoursloat]

B2 doesn't need to be plus though, Kotal already a +9 big leg.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I do indeed confirm that fam lmao. I use it sometimes as a troll