General/Other - War God War God Suggested Changes

[x-azeez]

War God and Universal suggested changes. (( with examples & explanations ))



* B1 --- remains a High, but reduce its startup to 7 ( from 9 )

why give him a faster advancing high ?

(( Tremor's F1 is 6 frames , Advancing High ))
(( Triborg F1 is 7 frames , Advancing High ))

This will give him a better punisher for moves that are -8 or more,

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* B122 --- Becomes -7 on block ( from -10 ) ----- why make it -7 on block :

(( Triborg F121 is -8 block , Advancing High ))
(( Jason B121 is -8 on block , Advancing Mid ))
(( Tremor F121 is +2 on block , Advancing High ))
(( Piercing B12 is -1 on block , Advancing High ))
(( D'vorah F112 is -5 (( not sure )) 12 frame Advancing Mid ))
(( Jax F212 is +1 on block ))

All the moves above are special cancellable (( Except for Jason & Jax ))
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* B12 --- Should have better upward hitbox.--- to catch jumping back opponents, Kotal players knows what i'm talking about.

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* F12 --- becomes +1 on block ( from -1 )

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* F1B2 --- Becomes -10 on block ( from -13 ) --- This string currently launches and F1 is currently an 11 frame mid normal

Why make it -10 on Block ?

Jason B121 a launcher and is -8 on block. (( it launches for a full combo, and B1 is a 13 frame advancing mid ))


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* 212 is +1 on block ( from -1 ) --- 212 has a gap between 21(gap)2, making it +1 will give the Kotal player a reason to use that string.

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* B32 becomes +3 on block ( from +2 )

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* B2 becomes +1 on block ( from -6 ) ----- this move is a super slow advancing overhead and has 26 startup frames.

Why make it + on block ?

(( Goro's F4 has 20 startup frames and leaves him at +4 ))
(( Tremor's F2 is super slow but leaves him around +3 or more ... not sure of the exact number, i have to check again.
(( Jason's F3 is +9 on block ))

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* DB2 Low Sword --- Becomes -11 on block ( from -15 )

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* EX DB2 --- Extend the frames on the armor

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* DB3 sword shake --- The unblockable has better recovery

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* DF2 --- Becomes 17 frames ( frome 26 )

Why make it 17 frames ?

so that War God can have a safe ( - 5 on block ) special to cancel it after B122 .... (( Currently if the move is cancelled after a B122, it will create a Gap. ))

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* EX DF2 --- Remains 26 frames, with 2 hits of armor

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* DB1 Overhead Sword --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -18 )

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* EX DB1 Overhead --- Becomes -30 on block ( from -14 )

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EDIT: if you don't like a certain change ... ask me and i'll explain the reason behind it


EDIT 2: Reasons for a certain change:

* Why B1 should be 7 frames ?

Kotal doesn't have a fast punishing move except for 9 frame B1. his other fastest normals are D1 (6f) / D4 (6f) / D2 (7f) / D3 (7f) / S1 (10F) F1 (11f)

* Why B122 Should be -7 on block ?

Kotal's B1 is a high and second part of the string comes in 12 frames ( not sure, need to check later ) ... so you can poke if you reacted to it or anything that come in mind for the character that you're choosing,

B122 is one of Kotal's few tools to get in, but the problem is, is that he can't get in safely, and with this string he reaps few rewards

* Why B12 should have upward hitbox ?

to catch jumping back opponents .... this will help kotal stop random jumping back opponents.

* Why should F12 becomes +1 ?

so that after a blocked F12, the opponent can't jump if i went fora followed up D4. if the opponent tried to jump, he will get caught with Kotal's D4

* Why Should F1B2 becomes -10 ?

lol .. i don't have a good reason ... being -10 would be too OP

* why should 212 becomes +1 ?

the move is rarely used ... being plus would give the Kotal player to use it more often a mix it up with his other normals and strings and not be repetative ... and BTW this move has a gap.

* Why should B32 become +3 ... so that Kotal can cross jump the opponent for another mix up ... even with it being +2, the opponent can still poke Kotal if he tried to forward jump after being +2 ... making it +3 will enable Kotal to jump forward. that's what 1 extra frame can do.

even with 114xx air grab which leaves kotal at +4 on block ... the opponent will still poke back because they are taking minimal risk knowing they'll only get hit with a follow up poke and not a full string.

* Why B2 should be +1 ?

to be honest .. no kotal player use this move on purpose. it only comes out by accident trying to do B122 but they miss-time it and B2 comes out by accident. that's why i suggested it being +1. because no kotal player use it ... and if you see kotal players use it ... just know that they used it by accident and not on purpose ...... @TheGangstaFace , can you confirm this ?

* Why Should DB2 becomes -11 on block ?

i have no good reason why it should be -11 .. it should stay -15 ... and there is no essential need for it anymore except for mixup purposes, since i have the new 17F DF2 to make Kotal pokes, normals and strings safer by cancelling it with DF2

* Why should i extend the armor frames on EX DB2 ?

because armor frames ends before he even hits the opponent.

* Why should DB3 unblockable should recovery faster ?

currently it takes an eternity to recover, like more than 100 recovery frames ... it should reduce by half

* why should DF2 becomes 17 frames ?

so that Kotal can have a fast safe special to cancel it after Pokes, Normals & Strings. instead of Overhead Sword ( DB1 ) which currently is -18, and with my suggestion will be -30

@omooba B122 is indeed -7 with my suggestion, but it leaves Kotal super close to the opponent, but cancelling it with the new DF2, it will create a distance due to its pushback. and give kotal many options on how to approach next.

* Why should EX DF2 remains 26 frames and has 2 hits of armor ?

this move is 26 frames. you can poke and still block in time, or better yet, you can safely jump-in/ Cross jump-in punch and you can still block on time when you react to it.

he needs it because currently, WG Kotal has the worst wake-up reversals in the game.

* Why Should DB1 becomes -30 on block ?

this will create a huge mindgame for Kotal, because the opponent will know that the overhead is super punishable now with a full combo. Currently its used after B122 because it doesn't have a gap, but now with the new DF2, he doesn't need to used it, except for mixup purpose. because imo, WG is Designed to a footsies character, but he should have safe fast mid specials like the change i suggested for DF2.

* Why Should EX DB1 becomes -30 on block ?

because this is an OVERHEAD Launcher that leads to 32% midscreen and 34% in the corner ... imo all Low and Overhead launcher should be punishable by death ....

Also EX DB1 often goes unpunished by most of the cast due to its pushback, even though its -14 on block

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I agree but at the same time I don't like your reasoning behind a lot of the changes. I think their should be real reason other than "well this character has a string or button like this so why can't my character?"

 

[x-azeez]

"well this character has a string or button like this so why can't my character?"

Let take a look at Tremor ... he is basically a super improved version of Kotal Kahn with Projectile Zoning options with an easy way to get in with F121 which leaves him at +2. same as kotal's B122 which gets him in easily ... but why make it -10 on block.


Also which point do you want me to explain ... i wrote a lot of points

 

[llabslb]

I like your idea with essentially more unsafe mix but justifying potato footsie tools with other potato footsie tools is not an acceptable reason to buff something. Like how you said making his B1 a high and then compared him to Tremor or making B122 -7 and then compared that string to a bunch of silly stuff. Kind of like how a couple of Kano players wanted Cyber/Commando B1 to become -2 because Kotal had a -2 B1 at the time.

 

[x-azeez]

I like your idea with essentially more unsafe mix but justifying potato footsie tools with other potato footsie tools is not an acceptable reason to buff something. Like how you said making his B1 a high and then compared him to Tremor or making B122 -7 and then compared that string to a bunch of silly stuff. Kind of like how a couple of Kano players wanted Cyber/Commando B1 to become -2 because Kotal had a -2 B1 at the time.

in the case of Cyber/Commando Kano & Tremor those guys has projectiles to close the distance or simply play a keep-away game ... plus, with those two for example: the opponent doesn't know if they'll play a projectile zoning game from fullscreen and then rush at you, or simply keep zoning from fullscreen .... but in the case of War God, the opponent will always know that War God will always try to get in on him.

That's why Kotal needs to dominate in-close (( because he only has his in-close game )) ... that's why i suggested those extra plus frames on certain normals and strings.

 

[x-azeez]

if you don't like a certain change ... ask me and i'll explain the reason behind it

 

[Wigy]

Kotal gets 3 mixups off his b122 string which can be a pain to punish for some characters so its silly to just say 'this advancing move is safe so kotals should be'

Theres a million factors in character comparison you're better balancing based on what they are lacking as a character and how this would help

Also u want b122 to be safe but then want df2 as a safe ender?

 

[llabslb]

in the case of Cyber/Commando Kano & Tremor those guys has projectiles to close the distance or simply play a keep-away game ... plus, with those two for example: the opponent doesn't know if they'll play a projectile zoning game from fullscreen and then rush at you, or simply keep zoning from fullscreen .... but in the case of War God, the opponent will always know that War God will always try to get in on him.

That's why Kotal needs to dominate in-close (( because he only has his in-close game )) ... that's why i suggested those extra plus frames on certain normals and strings.

Yeah I get you but I feel his means of gaining offence and his offence is already pretty decent in War God. I just don't feel the adjustments you mentioned address the issue of dealing with zoners any better. It sounds like it'll create something more problematic if I'm being honest.

 

[myri]

Worst justification for how to balance a character is "X character has this so Y character should have it too"

Some of these are okay however, most are poorly reasoned though.

 

[x-azeez]

Kotal gets 3 mixups off his b122 string which can be a pain to punish for some characters so its silly to just say 'this advancing move is safe so kotals should be'

Theres a million factors in character comparison you're better balancing based on what they are lacking as a character and how this would help

Also u want b122 to be safe but then want df2 as a safe ender?

But, if these changes is implemented, Kotal will be put at a higher risk to go for a 50/50 sword mix in the B122 string ... the overhead sword will be -30 on block, the low sword will be -11 on block (( But with the low there will be a gap to either armor or backdash )) .... that's why War God will go for the new 17 frame startup DF2 after B122. also the opponent can option select the B122 mix ... if i did B122xx DB1 or ( DF2 new version ) ... the armor will not come out and you will still be able to block ... but if i did the Low, the armor will come out.

Also part of the mix is doing an empty B122 to bait the armor or B12 ( -13 on block )

 

[x-azeez]

Worst justification for how to balance a character is "X character has this so Y character should have it too"

Some of these are okay however, most are poorly reasoned though.

in the post ... i can't put all the reasons behind every change .. i used the simplest way to reason with a certain change and because it will take a long time to write .... that's why i said at the end of the post ... ((( if you don't like a certain change ... ask me and i'll explain the reason behind it )))

 

[Killer Xinok]

If you're asking for better frames, I'll ask for better midscreen damage for tremor there's no point on doing it

 

[neveradestroyer]

Two bar armored launcher for Kotal Khan, and paddle can be meter burn to launch. Like predator. That's the only acceptable change he can get. Not this framedata change proposal nonsense.

 

[x-azeez]

If you're asking for better frames, I'll ask for better midscreen damage for tremor there's no point on doing it

you think tremor needs better midscreen damage ?????? .... JK , i know what you trying to say ... that Kotal already has better frames now.

 

[myri]

in the post ... i can't put all the reasons behind every change .. i used the simplest way to reason with a certain change and because it will take a long time to write .... that's why i said at the end of the post ... ((( if you don't like a certain change ... ask me and i'll explain the reason behind it )))

Okay, I didn't ask you to explain any of them though, all I said was the reasons in the original post are very poor reasons, which they are.

 

[x-azeez]

Two bar armored launcher for Kotal Khan

on which special ?

and paddle can be exchanged to launch

what do you mean by paddle ? .. you mean DF2 ?

Not this framedata change proposal nonsense

you know that Kotal is designed in the new version of the game to be a Footsie character, right ? and he needs extra plus frames.

 

[x-azeez]

Okay, I didn't ask you to explain any of them though, all I said was the reasons in the original post are very poor reasons, which they are.

the reason are not poor, ... and i said i haven't got the time to list excellent proper reasons for each because it will take me forever to list each reason ... so ask me about a certain change ? and i'll give you a good reason behind it

 

[Raiderhorn]

I don't like polls that are yes-yes.

 

[neveradestroyer]

@x-azeez
Look!. I dont even play Kothal Kahn, But my proposal is. Make his launcher an armored paddle,then if he meter burn again he launchs. Like Predator, also his normal padle to be meterburned to launch again like Predator.

 

[myri]

the reason are not poor, ... and i said i haven't got the time to list excellent proper reasons for each because it will take me forever to list each reason ... so ask me about a certain change ? and i'll give you a good reason behind it

Again I'm not asking about any specific change, I'm just saying that the "X character has this so Y character should have it too" argument is a bad one for many reasons, which is one of your main arguments in the opening post. That's literally all I'm saying. If you have the time to sit in this thread and reply to everyone and discuss changes why don't you have the time to write them out in the original post?

 

[Eddy Wang]

The worst part about this:
Asks B1 to be 7f, then asks B12 to catch jumps, i'm sorry but this is how you break a character and on top of all, asks B122 to be -7, are you fucking serious?

There is no plausive justification to NRS even take this thread in consideration when the buff suggestion is to compare the tools with characters already existing in the game.

What this thread fails at is, Jason, Jax, Tri-borg or what ever compared to Kotal Kahn ALL OF THEM have different tools as a whole and its the full compedium that determines how it affects them.

Definitely not in agreement with F1B2 to be -10, this string covers lots of range, its a goddamn launcher, and catch ppl trying to jump (reason why B12 doesn't need to have the same propriety) its special cancelable, and he wants to make a hard living for characters who lack 10f advancing mids to punish.
Some characters better punishment advancing normals starts at 11f, F1B2 being at -13 is actually fine.

Don't even get me started on Kotal having plus on block strings, if he gets that his D1 and D4 need to be 9f, just saying.

 

[thlityoursloat]

WHY do you want his OH paddle -30 on block? The only other moves in the game that are this -ve are extremely rewarding on hit.
I do agree with making B122 safer, but that's about it for B1, it has way more range than other advancing highs so its slower startup is justified.

 

[LaidbackOne]

1. Post a list of ridicululz changes - because character X has something similar
2. Post a pointless nerf (-30 on oh sword) just to mislead the viewers

Well played sir

 

[Gofer_MK]

That is A LOT of changes.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I strongly recommend changing your dealer, that stuff is crazy strong.