Video/Tutorial - Dragons Fire Liu Kang corner block trap

[Rude]

I kinda agree, but Tempest has amazing footsies, best Oki in the game, and 2nd best damage in the game, and is safe on like everything, and also has an Overhead starter, better pokes, gets much damage out of his armor and has like the best hit box in the game (very relevant compared to LKs armor) and also 7f.

I mean Tempest is plenty strong without it.

Is DF strong without loopable pressure? Probably not.

Would he be strong without this being a bonfide infinite against 4 or 5 different members of the cast? Of course he would.



I think the solution is finding a way to change this to allow those characters to play the game against LK , but without impacting Liu in any other way.

It feels like, to me at least, that these RC pressure characters weren't as well tested as they could have been, maybe.

Although I'm not really sure what the answer is in Kang's case. He kind of needs strong pressure and armor breaking to do well.

Maybe reduce some of the plus frames off f213 so that characters can armor.

I'm not sure.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

People are weenies, they're not interested in outplaying their opponent so much as they are winning free

Lol thats how i feel when i lose to a guess

 

[Rude]

Cyber Kano's B1 was nerfed because TWO characters couldn't get out, and he doesn't have 1/5 of the pressure other characters, and those two characters were given a 6f and an 8f poke so the nerf ended up being for nothing.

#NoSympathy

Man. #Tournamentviablecyberkillingmachine

#Neverallowedtolive

 

[scarsunseen]

Maybe they should put more pushback on ex-fly kick on block in the corner or make his recovery slower? I dunno. Just trying to think of a practical fix. (I don't play LK so I don't know how realistic of a solution this might be.)

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

remember when ex FK was +15 on block?

 

[Scott The Scot]

Bycycle Kick's MB has a gap in it that can be backdashed or armoured out. If you blow him up for this all the time and he stops MB'ing it and wasting meter then he's -13.

 

[Undeadjim]

Bycycle Kick's MB has a gap in it that can be backdashed or armoured out. If you blow him up for this all the time and he stops MB'ing it and wasting meter then he's -13.

Nobody is doing bicycle kicks on block Scott think you have this confused with Dragon kick MB which goes into bicycle kicks lol

 

[Scott The Scot]

Nobody is doing bicycle kicks on block Scott think you have this confused with Dragon kick MB which goes into bicycle kicks lol

Maybe I am, I don't play Liu Kang as you can tell, just thought I'd try and contribute. Apologies!

 

[just_2swift]

Maybe I am, I don't play Liu Kang as you can tell, just thought I'd try and contribute. Apologies!

D4 d4 d4 b2 xx smoke bomb

 

[Scott The Scot]

D4 d4 d4 b2 xx smoke bomb

It's a legit 50/50 bro! D4 is +12 on hit and D4 is 12 frames startup. You need to guess that, or the 15 frame overhead. Which you technically could armour out... But you still need to guess when I'm gonna do it. God I love Smoke. Hey wait a minute! Stop derailing this topic!

 

[DrFolmer]

Look man, A-List ex forceballs are only +4 and don't jail into anything; because of the pushback any character can avoid any follow up with a backdash, or armor, or use any 7f pokes, or jump back, or whatever. You just don't know what you are talking about and almost everything you said in this thread is false...know your facts and avoid writing bullshit, thanks

People have absolutely no clue on how Johnny works, yet they are so quick to post bullshit like jailing forceballs like its mk9 Johnny Cage

 

[JDM]

So everything has to lead to a mixup huh? So if someones low you gotta mix them up? What if a cage hits u with nutpunch, 4 to be super plus, jaill u into 114 and ex forceball to try and chip u out when you're low? If u block it he can follow up with f3 to try and continue since hes plus.

yeah he can do that. It's good. But he doesn't loop infinitely like Liu, you can backdash and armor through gaps unlike liu who can armor break and you can't backdash, you can take the last hit of 114 and he cannot loop you back into it unlike Liu who can on a read.. etc. Liu has more dirt.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Sure you can NERF the flying kick go for it but everything else no.

IF you NERF Liu kangs FBCs I also want to see...

Kung Lao NERF
Quan Chi NERF
Cassie NERF
Shinnok NERF
Johnny Cage NERf
Sub zero clone NERF since it does exactly what this does but in a different way.

EVERY character in the game that has MASSIVE plus frames or creates massive block stun to be NERF.

This is like stereotyping one character when multiple Characters have this or something similar.

Cassie? What do you want to nerf from Cassie? PM me, I'm interested to see where Cassies, and I quote, "MASSIVE plus frames" are on block.

 

[aieches]

Why are we bringing up clone ? Cause Tom posted the thread? Clone is irrelevant to this topic .

 

[MsMiharo]

Cyber Kano's B1 was nerfed because TWO characters couldn't get out, and he doesn't have 1/5 of the pressure other characters, and those two characters were given a 6f and an 8f poke so the nerf ended up being for nothing.

#NoSympathy

This.

#kuffbano #bringbackbackone

 

[getoverhere--->]

Cassie? What do you want to nerf from Cassie?

I wanna know too

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Sure you can NERF the flying kick go for it but everything else no.

IF you NERF Liu kangs FBCs I also want to see...

Kung Lao NERF
Quan Chi NERF
Cassie NERF
Shinnok NERF
Johnny Cage NERf
Sub zero clone NERF since it does exactly what this does but in a different way.

EVERY character in the game that has MASSIVE plus frames or creates massive block stun to be NERF.

This is like stereotyping one character when multiple Characters have this or something similar.

I really don't see how the ice klone is the same as Liu Kang's pressure(inno it's not a true infinite on everyone but it's still very strong). Liu Kang can pressure across the cast, but the klone is hit and miss as far as matchups. When it hits, it HITS(blood/sun Kotal Kahn), but sometimes it does Jack shit(D'Vorah/Quan Chi). I can understand why you might be frusturated by it, but that doesn't mean it's OP. Sub has already had the shit beaten outa him for no reason. Ice Klone is not very relevant to this "massive plus frames" point you're making, and neither is Cassie really. I understand your point, and I don't think Liu kang should be nerfed, the characters he locks down should be buffed for compensation imo.

 

[Spencer]

I really don't see how the ice klone is the same as Liu Kang's pressure(inno it's not a true infinite on everyone but it's still very strong). Liu Kang can pressure across the cast, but the klone is hit and miss as far as matchups. When it hits, it HITS(blood/sun Kotal Kahn), but sometimes it does Jack shit(D'Vorah/Quan Chi). I can understand why you might be frusturated by it, but that doesn't mean it's OP. Sub has already had the shit beaten outa him for no reason. Ice Klone is not very relevant to this "massive plus frames" point you're making, and neither is Cassie really. I understand your point, and I don't think Liu kang should be nerfed, the characters he locks down should be buffed for compensation imo.

What I mean by the Clone is that in the corner Sub Zeros clone makes you physically block stun .

He can break your armor and Antiair so basically your stunned... Then he can run and 50/50 that leads to 44%. Or more damage and then he can set up the clone again and put you in the same position .

Cassie has ways to get plus aswell.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

What I mean by the Clone is that in the corner Sub Zeros clone makes you physically block stun .

He can break your armor and Antiair so basically your stunned... Then he can run and 50/50 that leads to 44%. Or more damage and then he can set up the clone again and put in the same position .

Cassie has ways to get plus aswell.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. The only thing he is plus in is really safe on is f4 into Klone tho, but I agree he can do some crazy shit in the corner, but I'd say it's alright because of bad midscreen damage. Let's try not to get off topic but good talk.

 

[Genei Jin]

In most scenarios Liu Kang is not going to have 3 bars so let's get this theory bullshit out of the way but for the time being let's play this theory fighter.

Let's say you used 5 of those characters that has poor escape options and you ran out of meter while Liu has a full bar. Let's also pretend it's on the third round. Who's choice was it to use the meter unwisely and get cornered.

Now let's pretend that Liu Kang does the f213 frame tight and perfect without mistakes. Liu Kang and you still has to guess right which option to use. B12 to break armor or f213 to continue the loop but risk getting armored, low profiled or interrupted.


That's too many variables in one scenario. Exactly many loops does it take to kill the opponent from start to finish? Too many and too many chances for the opponent to break free.

Outside of the corner, the max f213 loops you usually get is about 2 until you go into mb fly kick. People aren't factoring the stamina it takes to use his run.

 

[Genei Jin]

I really don't see how the ice klone is the same as Liu Kang's pressure(inno it's not a true infinite on everyone but it's still very strong). Liu Kang can pressure across the cast, but the klone is hit and miss as far as matchups. When it hits, it HITS(blood/sun Kotal Kahn), but sometimes it does Jack shit(D'Vorah/Quan Chi). I can understand why you might be frusturated by it, but that doesn't mean it's OP. Sub has already had the shit beaten outa him for no reason. Ice Klone is not very relevant to this "massive plus frames" point you're making, and neither is Cassie really. I understand your point, and I don't think Liu kang should be nerfed, the characters he locks down should be buffed for compensation imo.

Majority of the cast has reasonable options to avoid getting corner trapped and/or escaping similar how certain characters can deal with ice clones.

A lot of characters have nearly no answer to ice clones akin to how 5 characters have no good answer to the corner trap.

They are asking for the removal of the corner trap because certain characters can't deal with it. If you are going to use the same logic, Ice clones should also be nerfed because a lot of characters can't deal with it too. The hypocrisy is high. He doesn't believe in corner infinities (it's not) but apparently 8-2 match ups are fine.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Majority of the cast has reasonable options to avoid getting corner trapped and/or escaping similar how certain characters can deal with ice clones.

A lot of characters have nearly no answer to ice clones akin to how 5 characters have no good answer to the corner trap.

They are asking for the removal of the corner trap because certain characters can't deal with it. If you are going to use the same logic, Ice clones should also be nerfed because a lot of characters can't deal with it too. The hypocrisy is high. He doesn't believe in corner infinities (it's not) but apparently 8-2 match ups are fine.

What 5 characters have no answer to the ice Klone?

 

[Genei Jin]

What 5 characters have no answer to the ice Klone?

I was talking about the Liu Kang corner trap

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I was talking about the Liu Kang corner trap

I know but you said a lot of characters don't have an answer to the Klone. I don't want to argue I actually think we made the same point: Liu Kang shouldn't be nerfed.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

I really don't see how the ice klone is the same as Liu Kang's pressure(inno it's not a true infinite on everyone but it's still very strong). Liu Kang can pressure across the cast, but the klone is hit and miss as far as matchups. When it hits, it HITS(blood/sun Kotal Kahn), but sometimes it does Jack shit(D'Vorah/Quan Chi). I can understand why you might be frusturated by it, but that doesn't mean it's OP. Sub has already had the shit beaten outa him for no reason. Ice Klone is not very relevant to this "massive plus frames" point you're making, and neither is Cassie really. I understand your point, and I don't think Liu kang should be nerfed, the characters he locks down should be buffed for compensation imo.

Are you serious you are saying Klone is a hit and miss. Dude clone is a nightmare to deal with in the corner for majority of the cast and this includes Johnny Cage also as he has no options other than using enhanced special to get out. Dont compare Liu Kang's pressure with Ice clone corner trap. And if you still think it is more harder to deal with please show everyone a match video of Liu Kang's nightmaric pressure in the corner. I can show you many of Sub-Zero's though.