MKX was the #1 selling game of 2015, so why so few viewers on Twitch?

[RyuuJin882]

Casuals made MKX sell well. Casuals do not spend all day on twitch watching mkx. Also, fg are a niche compared to MMO. Lol, Dota and the like will always be on top.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I think everything been said.

Overall:
Fighting games are pretty hard to get in to. The genre JUST started having tutorials that go more in depth besides d,df,f+p = fireball. And that's not even every game.

MOBA devs have done more for their scene. FG have just started getting consistent pot bonuses and tourney help from devs.

I'd say give this genre a few more years to really get big in the esports scene. Qe're finally laying down the foundation.

As for MKX:
Netcode is garbage. All the casuals who had even a fleeting interest in the game won't put up with the awful online support. They have way too many other games to play online.

MKX is NOT a casual friendly game. You can't make a super offensive based game and expect to get big numbers or for interest to stay. I'd say this game is right beneath Marvel in terms of being unforgiving. But instead of ToDs, you get put into a guessing game (that you probably didn't even know about), and lose 60%. I mean how many tourney matches does the timer go past 60 seconds?.

Basically not only is the fighting game genre finally make steps to getting out of it's niche that it won't ever fully shake off. But MKX and NRS have their own slew of problems on top of that.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if ESL 2 had less numbers. ESL 1 happened during release hype. Now everyone has a clear picture of what type of game MKX is.

Can anyone tell me what kind of marketing do the ESL people do? I always felt like there is HUGE number of people who own MKX and don't even know that's going on. If they don't visit websites like TYM, Ehubs, Srk, or twitch, or follow FG personalities on twitter, they wouldn't know about it.

I think this is very accurate, except for the "hard to get into" part. Well, even that is actually accurate, they are hard to get into - but no harder than some of the games that are beating MKX by miles, in fact in many cases it's safe to say they are easier to get into. You are very correct however.

Casuals made MKX sell well. Casuals do not spend all day on twitch watching mkx. Also, fg are a niche compared to MMO. Lol, Dota and the like will always be on top.

This doesn't answer anything. "Mobas have more viewers because they have more viewers - MKX is a niche in comparison, because it's a niche". Things weren't just made this way or cemented to be as such. MKX would have a much bigger scene if it hadn't shut down any growth potential with the NetCode.

Seriously, I live in a small country Australian town.

We had OVER 20 people show up to our first MKX tournament.

Guess how many of those same people still play? Literally just two of us, myself and the host. And I'm getting pretty burnt out myself.

All the others quit because of the same reason - outside of tournament, there was literally no opportunity to play this game or get better or stay focused. It's not about a casual crowd. Casual crowd plays shitload of things online and watches shitload of stuff, compare our numbers to CoD or battlefield on twitch lol, it's not that the nature of fighting games are less popular, the sales alone proved this.

It's quite simply, no other reason, than the fact that NRS didn't give a shit about the competitive scene, and it's quick buck business model stamped out any growth potential, and it's beaten wife playerbase defended the shitty NetCode and literally fought against people trying to make a difference.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Because everyone saw the fatalities already.

 

[DownfouralitY]

The real reason nobody watches? The game is boring as fuck to watch and some of the time even play. There are a few hype matches here and there, but not many. KP2 will definitely bring some life back into the game, but it's months away

 

[Evil Canadian]

The real reason nobody watches? The game is boring as fuck to watch and some of the time even play. There are a few hype matches here and there, but not many. KP2 will definitely bring some life back into the game, but it's months away

That's you hoisting your own personal foibles onto the game, whatever you think is wrong with mkx has nothing to do with nobody watching it on stream because nobody watches any fighting games on stream. Kids want to watch league and minecraft not fighting games its as simple as that.

 

[Skellington]

Because the online is steaming dog shit and casual gamers (the majority of MK sales) do not like dog shit netcode

 

[EntropicByDesign]

@I GOT HANDS

No offense taken and when I get a chance I'll retort a few things and explain another couple things I didn't explain very well in my original post.

Just to give you an idea though, I have close to your hours in DotA, in LoL, and I've had some SMALL competitive success there, so Im not outside looking in exactly.

I never meant to come across saying that MOBAs are easier to MASTER than a FG, but they ARE much much easier to pick up.

Also, I was speaking to FGs as a whole, not just MKX.

You're right in one aspect I didn't address at all, and that's that these games are built from the ground up to be a sport and that are SUPPORTED.I didnt address that and I should have, but I was more focusing on the psychological aspects of the MOBA appeal vs that of FG. But any way, no offense at all, I like a good debate and at some point today I'll make a proper post, but its gonna end up being a long one so I'll hold off till I have time to out it together properly lol

 

[WidowPuppy]

mostly because the netcode is crap. most games unplayable. which means the only streams worth watching are yomi and a few other tournament streams.

An Elder God has spoken the truth!

 

[I GOT HANDS]

@I GOT HANDS

No offense taken and when I get a chance I'll retort a few things and explain another couple things I didn't explain very well in my original post.

Just to give you an idea though, I have close to your hours in DotA, in LoL, and I've had some SMALL competitive success there, so Im not outside looking in exactly.

I never meant to come across saying that MOBAs are easier to MASTER than a FG, but they ARE much much easier to pick up.

Also, I was speaking to FGs as a whole, not just MKX.

You're right in one aspect I didn't address at all, and that's that these games are built from the ground up to be a sport and that are SUPPORTED.I didnt address that and I should have, but I was more focusing on the psychological aspects of the MOBA appeal vs that of FG. But any way, no offense at all, I like a good debate and at some point today I'll make a proper post, but its gonna end up being a long one so I'll hold off till I have time to out it together properly lol

That's perfect cause I really gotta go to sleep lol, but I look forward to your response especially from someone who is a participant/familiar with the eSport scene



I don't doubt your experience at all and I believe you when you say it, but out of curiosity, exactly what was it that made the Moba easier for you to pick up?


It might because I'd button bashed around on fighters before for a long time, but that transition into picking one up and deciding I wanted to play it competitively came very naturally... I had absolutely no idea of the competitive scene and what was possible with combos, but I simply just improved... I had no problem playing the game on a pick-up level and there was nothing too unituitive about playing it more seriously. Compared to MOBAS, even having my hand held by a friend who was a VERY good teacher, I was still absolutely lost, and this is even with a history of RTS'ing.... simply had no fundamentals for this style of game to build on other than rts control, and it still took me like a hundred hours to even start understanding the game and not feeding like hell every match. Share your experience and how it differed, because I'm actually curious.

 

[buyacushun]

Anyone thinking KP2 will bring some magical life need to get a bit realistic. Sure, it will send some steam up the hype train but MKX doesn't function on a basic level. Whether you're a casual and all you wanted was to chill and play online. Or you got really into the game but can't properly play because hitboxes don't work right. It's not like the game is perfect and things are just getting stale. The game hasn't been out for even a year.

I seriously doubt there is a big number of players waiting on KP2 to get back online.

Making sure this point is brought up again because I think it's the most important. NRS got a whole competitve league thing setup with esl and that's great. BUT. . .the netcode is straight ass so how are people supposed to take it seriously? There are plenty of people, some even here, who don't even bother competing because the online is so horrible. It's on XBL and some Xbox1 players can't even connect and get stuck on a loading screen. And if they do get on there dlc hasn't loaded.

Could you imagine if SF4 online was just as bad? Excellent adventures, probably the most famous FGC show wouldn't be as good because they would just be complaing about dropped combos, missed anti airs, and all types of stuff. Which they already do now just not as bad.

@I GOT HANDS by "hard to get into" I meant that a new player wouldn't even know what's the wrong thing to do. Or why they just lost. I remember trying to learn SF, after I already figured out how fighting games worked, and got destroyed by a zangief doing tick throws. A casual wouldn't even understand the concept of command grabs and probably would default to "spammer" and other ignorant statements.

 

[buyacushun]

Actually NRS tried to play online and got stuck on a connecting screen and gave up. They could be running their own consistent stream or showcasing known players and tournies and the like but no, we got championship belt fights from people who probably couldn't get top 32.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Cause it isn't League of Legends.

Or Minecraft

 

[DownfouralitY]

That's you hoisting your own personal foibles onto the game, whatever you think is wrong with mkx has nothing to do with nobody watching it on stream because nobody watches any fighting games on stream. Kids want to watch league and minecraft not fighting games its as simple as that.

Yeah hoisting my own personal opinion which many share. Obviously it's not the only reason but it's one of the big reasons why imo. Also I said nothing about the problems MKX has, I just said it is boring to watch.

 

[RemainSolid]

That's you hoisting your own personal foibles onto the game, whatever you think is wrong with mkx has nothing to do with nobody watching it on stream because nobody watches any fighting games on stream. Kids want to watch league and minecraft not fighting games its as simple as that.

It is pretty boring to watch. Tbh

 

[evolution07]

I enjoy watching matches to learn new strategies that I may have never thought of. Since this is all still new to me, watching someone who is a top tier player can help immensely because it can really open your eyes to the kinds of things you'll encounter from different players. Everyone has a different playstyle. I'm always told to work on my footsie game, and since I'm trying to be more of a competitive fighter over casual, the more matches I watch the better.

I'd say I'm part of the crowd that has no problem watching for a long period of time, whereas someone needs to be involved or they get bored. Think of it in terms of sports; there are those that could watch a game for hours and never get bored, but then there are those who need to be involved or else they just lose interest. I can't watch sports, it's boring as hell, but if I'm involved it's completely different. For a video game it's the opposite, I just like watching people play and can't say why.

 

[Paaapiman]

you are also missing that 3 of the top 4 games on twitch are Warcraft 3 spinoffs

 

[Arkane Slim]

A lot of people play it and don't like the feel, they just like the presentation. I think it's hard to appreciate it. I still play it casually but all my peeps don't play it anymore.

Looking forward to SFV and T7 though.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

One more thing

I feel people come to my stream for three things in order

Stories/shenanigans (not mk related)
Fun discussions on various topics (not MKX related)
And then Kenshi/MKX stuff


So if u don't have the first two and ur name isn't yOMI/sonic/honeybee/milky then you're S.O.L.

 

[Nulak]

This is not only about game popularity but 2 other fact that are really important on twitch when you watch viewer count total.

- Right now on twitch, there is no active MK streamer, and i mean here "successful" streamer beside TrueTalent. Usually this guy run with an average of 1500 viewers. Thats not bad at all. He's casting everyday with a schedule, watch his chat, answer stuff and also play other games (and play with viewers) in other word, its an real interactive channel like a twitch channel must be.
What other name we have on twitch beside him ? Lord Brady when he cast, about 500 viewers average, but no schedule at all, and don't cast very often.
Who else ? no one.

That means beside 2 non-tournament channel we don't have many good quality stream to watch for MK...

The second reason is that like all other "non casual friendly" games that are played in competitive scene, viewers just leave a channel if the streamer is "average". In fact, you can notice a streamer sux at any fighting game in like 1 match. That not the case at all for shitty MOBA games, or casual FPS like COD. Even if the guy lack skill or experience, the gameplay will looks almost the same (i said almost) than watching a pro gamer giving a chance to the streamer to catch audience with something else, like humor, fun etc...

And keep in mind i can copy/paste my post to any versus fighting game +6month after release on twitch.

Same as USFIV who run about 200 viewers total average without any tournament... I don't even talk about guilty gear, same for Tekken etc...

No tournament online or mainstream cast playing the "insert game name" = low viewership for VSfighting game on twitch, simply as that.
Its sad but true.
Maybe TvShow like Tekken crash will bring more people to the FGC since their channel can also catch SC2 community and/or Fifa comunity interest. Will see.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

why... why... why...

 

[I GOT HANDS]

@buyacushun that pretty much describes my first 100 hours on a Moba, hell I'm still now realising new things that I need to do to avoid losing a game. If I showed this to any Moba player I feel like they'd have a fit at the concept that fighters are harder to get into or learn than a Moba, or that they have a much higher skillcap at a competitive level. I feel like Moba's are getting a pretty one sided rap here from a bunch of FG players who think that their game is of course the hardest to master, and that Mobas are easy pick up games in comparison. But that couldn't be further from the truth as a big player of both and many more. Moba's are notorious for their difficulty and their user unfriendliness. Nobody is saying Fighters aren't hard, or are comparable to an FPS. But this "Dota is so popular with bigger prize pools because its easier to get in", its just a fallback/cop-out for the real reasons, because at the VERY least they are just as hard to get into as MKX, but much more likely that they are shitloads harder



http://kotaku.com/93-hours-in-im-still-not-sure-if-dota-2-is-fun-1611226542

 

[sub_on_dubs]

I think League of Legends is the most boring thing to watch. It may be fun to play, but when I watch it I'm like

 

[buyacushun]

@buyacushun that pretty much describes my first 100 hours on a Moba, hell I'm still now realising new things that I need to do to avoid losing a game. If I showed this to any Moba player I feel like they'd have a fit at the concept that fighters are harder to get into or learn than a Moba, or that they have a much higher skillcap at a competitive level. I feel like Moba's are getting a pretty one sided rap here from a bunch of FG players who think that their game is of course the hardest to master, and that Mobas are easy pick up games in comparison. But that couldn't be further from the truth as a big player of both and many more. Moba's are notorious for their difficulty and their user unfriendliness. Nobody is saying Fighters aren't hard, or are comparable to an FPS. But this "Dota is so popular with bigger prize pools because its easier to get in", its just a fallback/cop-out for the real reasons, because at the VERY least they are just as hard to get into as MKX, but much more likely that they are shitloads harder



http://kotaku.com/93-hours-in-im-still-not-sure-if-dota-2-is-fun-1611226542

oh I'm not saying MK or any FG is harder than Dota 2 or any MOBA. Just that there is no feedback at all when lose or win. Unless you know what to look for then you'd have no real clue what's going on. At least in MOBAs there are different screens with information. The scoreboard, death recap, even the UI can give you feedback on what's going on and if you're winning or losing. In fighters all you have are health bars.

I could never get into Dota. But I did get in to SMITE. The hardest part of DOTA for me was movement and trying to get used to the delay I felt and clicking everywhere. After that I had to learn what the champs do and what the items do. Then you start maximizing all that and get into team comps and blah blah blah.

I have one problem with that article and that's that it's by someone that has 93 hours in and doesn't realize there are good places to place wards. I found that out within hours because I took the time to ask or google it. Same for Smite. Most of that person's problems is that they are going about learning the whole game seemingly by themselves. Which if someone did in a fighter, I'm sure you'd understand if they went 93 hours and never realized to mix up the speed of their fireballs or using their best pokes or even that there is a neutral game. I still run into online players with over 1000 games played and they do NJP, random mileena rolls and always armored wakeup the moment the tiniest bit of pressure comes.

I think both MOBA and FG are hard to truly master or even get competitively good at to really play ranked. But that's a different topic.

MOBAs do have a couple things that FGs don't have that can make them more appealing to a casual. Information is abundant during and after the game. It's 5v5 so you can be mediocre but have someone carry (literally a role on the team) you to victory. You can follow common builds and regulate your skill usage to safe, sure things. That's much harder to do in a fighter unless you really practiced. So I don't think that one genre is harder than the other. But MOBAs definitely take it easier on new players than fighters do, both in direct and indirect ways. If fighting games want to get out of the niche, developers are going to have to figure out a way to make the game easier on new players. Without destroying what made the hardcore players like it in the first place.

 

[virtiqaL]

Shit netcode is a big factor for me, personally. Lately, I can't get motivated to play online/stream the game because the online experience is so shit.

I also think if the game truly is getting boring for the majority, it says something about the lack of depth/variety of the gameplay. I often see people refer to the game as an offense-heavy game... well... if the strategy for most characters in the game is basically summed up by "Run in and throw your bullshit out", that doesn't make for an interesting game to play or to watch in the long run.

 

[Superi0rMagik]

I will let the game speak for itself