Advice on mashing/timing/not choking please

[FuzzyDunlop]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping for some advice to keep myself from just mashing too many buttons during matches and stuff like that. Even though I played the original MK on my SNES when I was like 5 years old I still feel that this is my first true fighting game, at least being serious about it, so I'm kinda weak when it comes to fundamentals and stuff like that. The amount of stuff you learn and how you grow as a player has really been incredible, I can feel myself building on my skills; but I really need some more training/advice.

For instance, I play Jax, in the lab I can consistently do the midscreen carry combo (f21 bf2d RC f21 11 f212 db1), and I mean I can do it like 9/10 times. However nearly everytime I'm in a match when I just want to do f21 I consistently do f212 and get punished, it's really annoying, how do you guys prevent yourself from mashing too fast? I guess just practice.

Also, any advice from adjusting to online? I'm thinking I need to do just that, practice more and adjust. Another example, in the corner after a f212 the timing is extremely tight offline, but I can still do it consistently. Online it's a nightmare, probably cause I need to forget about visual cues and just go with the kombo.

Question: Do you guys ever close your eyes and just do the string to help with the timing? I did that a couple times in the lab and was doing alright but dunno if this is a viable practice technique.

Overall I just need your standard noob help I guess, it's just annoying because I feel like I've improved so much, but whenever I fire up online it's just not the same. Regarding the lag, it really hasn't been THAT bad, I just have got to adjust I guess.

I think overall I need to slow my mind down and not press too many buttons, I was watching SonicFox play with wrestler the other day and I could just tell he was so calm and patient throughout the whole time, I guess this will just come with experience, like I said this is my first game truly so I should just be proud that I can consistently do Jax's run cancel

Finally, would a patient bastard be willing to do some matches with me sometime? I will literally lose 22-0 (as I did online the other day), I don't get my feelings hurt at all, I've found in anything in life being around someone better than you always makes you better. For reference I live in Mississippi (merica), play on playstation4, any tips at all would be great.

Sorry for rambling, any and all advice are welcome! Thanks

 

[Airvidal]

PSN: Airvidal17

 

[infamy23]

Guys like SonicFox are a rare breed to be honest. The vast majority of people including myself, are struggling with the same execution problems that you are.

Whenever I'm having trouble with a combo, I will focus on that combo specifically and nothing else. I'll play towers at first, to get used to doing the combo spontaneously on a moving target. Once I can do it 100% of the time against the AI, I'll start playing online and going for that combo over and over without worrying too much about the other aspects of my game.

Sometimes I'll go so far as to look directly at my hand every time I do the combo, just to reinforce the muscle memory.

In regards to playing online, it helps to understand that lag and latency are not the same thing. I play with people sometimes and they say shit like "I can't do my combos it's too laggy the netcode sucks!!!!!"

Well, it's true that the netcode sucks, but the real reason these guys are missing their combos is because they haven't adjusted their timing to compensate for the latency.

I can do Raiden's most difficult combos online, with no problem. You just have to use different visual cues and input everything earlier.

For Jax, think about all of the visual cues that you use in training mode, and then adjust them to compensate for the delay. I play Jax as well so I'll explain what I mean:

In training mode, you would input your run instantly as the EX flash appears, this causes Jax to run on the 1st possible frame. When you play online, you must input the run BEFORE the flash appears. It will feel counter intuitive at first but you must realize that the overhead dash punch is on it's way, it's just delayed.

In training mode, you would wait for Jax to take a few steps forward, before you press f21. Online, you must press f21 as soon as you see him move.

In training mode, you would wait for Jax to drop his elbow completely, and then wait another 2 frames before you press 11. Online, you would press 11 as soon as he drops his elbow.

I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. Even difficult combos are consistent online, as long as you spend the time to adjust your timing accordingly. Obviously if the connection is complete trash, you are going to miss combos, but I'm referring to decent connections with 40-60ms delay.

 

[SaltShaker]

More and more playing. Practice mode and live matches are two different things. If you can already do the convos with ease in practice mode then you simply need to continue playing more and more matches until they become second nature at game speed. You might be getting too excited to land a hit or rushing to counter on block and inputting too fast. You'll get it in no time, just keep playing more.

This is assuming online isn't the culprit of course.

 

[SamZ]

Doing it over and over in matches helps. Online, everything goes out the window. Timing can be different from match to match, longer sets with people that want to see you improve is what you want. I'm a new player as well, just started getting the hang of Jax. If you want to add me I can give you some tips that helped me. SpltinterSJZ

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

More and more playing. Practice mode and live matches are two different things. If you can already do the convos with ease in practice mode then you simply need to continue playing more and more matches until they become second nature at game speed. You might be getting too excited to land a hit or rushing to counter on block and inputting too fast. You'll get it in no time, just keep playing more.

This is assuming online isn't the culprit of course.

Nah I honestly don't think online is the culprit, I went from Wi-Fi to wired and was like jesus what have I been doing, it's different yes but the delay isn't THAT bad.

I think you hit the nail on the head honestly, I connect my f4 or my b2 or my 123 (which I KNOW will give me a full carry into the corner) and subsequently flip my shit with excitement and completely miss it, and at that point they're back blocking again. Whenever that happens I get pretty pissed off but I definitely see the improvements.

Like one of my corner mixups is b34 > downward punch, sometimes I mash too many buttons or go to fast and it goes b34 > rising knee kick, which is absurdly punishable, just gotta get my efficient and not lose my shit!

Thanks for the reply guys truly

 

[SaltShaker]

Nah I honestly don't think online is the culprit, I went from Wi-Fi to wired and was like jesus what have I been doing, it's different yes but the delay isn't THAT bad.

I think you hit the nail on the head honestly, I connect my f4 or my b2 or my 123 (which I KNOW will give me a full carry into the corner) and subsequently flip my shit with excitement and completely miss it, and at that point they're back blocking again. Whenever that happens I get pretty pissed off but I definitely see the improvements.

Like one of my corner mixups is b34 > downward punch, sometimes I mash too many buttons or go to fast and it goes b34 > rising knee kick, which is absurdly punishable, just gotta get my efficient and not lose my shit!

Thanks for the reply guys truly

It's definitely an exp thing then. In practice it's easy to just do anything against the practice dummy, but against people in matches it's different because you have to react "at the moment" of the opening window. Whether that be a block counter, whiff punish, poke punish, etc, your reaction and combo response is "rushed" or "panicky" at the moment but eventually will become more "natural" as it evolves into second nature. From the sound of it you'll definitely be fine, just keep playing more live matches.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Guys like SonicFox are a rare breed to be honest. The vast majority of people including myself, are struggling with the same execution problems that you are.

Whenever I'm having trouble with a combo, I will focus on that combo specifically and nothing else. I'll play towers at first, to get used to doing the combo spontaneously on a moving target. Once I can do it 100% of the time against the AI, I'll start playing online and going for that combo over and over without worrying too much about the other aspects of my game.

Sometimes I'll go so far as to look directly at my hand every time I do the combo, just to reinforce the muscle memory.

In regards to playing online, it helps to understand that lag and latency are not the same thing. I play with people sometimes and they say shit like "I can't do my combos it's too laggy the netcode sucks!!!!!"

Well, it's true that the netcode sucks, but the real reason these guys are missing their combos is because they haven't adjusted their timing to compensate for the latency.

I can do Raiden's most difficult combos online, with no problem. You just have to use different visual cues and input everything earlier.

For Jax, think about all of the visual cues that you use in training mode, and then adjust them to compensate for the delay. I play Jax as well so I'll explain what I mean:

In training mode, you would input your run instantly as the EX flash appears, this causes Jax to run on the 1st possible frame. When you play online, you must input the run BEFORE the flash appears. It will feel counter intuitive at first but you must realize that the overhead dash punch is on it's way, it's just delayed.

In training mode, you would wait for Jax to take a few steps forward, before you press f21. Online, you must press f21 as soon as you see him move.

In training mode, you would wait for Jax to drop his elbow completely, and then wait another 2 frames before you press 11. Online, you would press 11 as soon as he drops his elbow.

I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. Even difficult combos are consistent online, as long as you spend the time to adjust your timing accordingly. Obviously if the connection is complete trash, you are going to miss combos, but I'm referring to decent connections with 40-60ms delay.

I appreciate you taking the time to type all this, I browse the forums a lot and always see you out there discussing a shit ton, thanks again. Your right I guess, I mean it took me hours in the lab just to get the timing for the damn 11 after f21, and the timing after f212 at the end was even tougher, I guess I need to expect to put that much time.

I really want to adjust to online mainly because my buddies at home don't really have the dedication to level up as much as I do, sure a couple of them have a few bread and butters and don't get me wrong I love playing them, they just don't want to play ALL the time, and when I get off of work I want to get an hour or 2 of training in.

Just gotta start running before the flash appears, christ back to square one, I'm hype tho I will continue to work weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

play against real people, cuz, if you already doing the "combos" then you need to play against real people (Not the AI) for you to get comfortable, with any type of situation, another thing is, go to the lab, and try to re-create "situations", for you to punish strings, or special moves.... there's no real "advice" here, just keep playing the game, and eventually you'll get the hang of it, just fine !!


P.S. i wouldn't play too much against the AI, cuz, they "cheat" (kinda), is kinda like playing Chess against the CPU, it will always be ahead of you, no player in the world can do that.... + it will just create frustration.... lel

 

[IROC]

I know this is a serious thread, and im litterally going to give you a serious answer. What works for me is getting drunk. I could go into detail about it. It sounds silly

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

@IROCmySCORPION Yeah I can understand that, we partake in Jameson shots around here so I definitely feel you.

@infamy23 when doing b2 do you ever accidentally knock them to the ground? It seems like my hardest one into downward punch, along with f4. Also, is it possible to do f4 and if it hit confirms is 123 > downward punch guaranteed? I know f4 > downward punch if hit confirmed is guaranteed but I saw tyrant do f4 then 123 into downward punch, but I'm pretty sure when he did that it wasn't really guaranteed but rather a mix up? I also just started using 23 bf2d, really feeling that one.

 

[FluffyKittenPops]

PSN : FluffyKittenPops

I dont know much about Jax but I'll play some games. I use Predator and Takeda

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

PSN : FluffyKittenPops

I dont know much about Jax but I'll play some games. I use Predator and Takeda

Thanks man I'll add you tomorrow

 

[Redux]

i agree with pretty much what everyone said. honestly just gotta keep cool headed when playing against people & your inputs need to be clean and not reliant on what you see on the screen too much.

add me, we can play and do a long set if you want if it helps you getting used to the combo timing. psn: slvrblvck
I have some exams coming up so I won't be on much but we can play for sure if I see your on.

 

[FFAxHades]

Literally its just practice. Go into the lab and do it over and over and over again. Do it until you don't even have to think about what you're doing. Get it to the point where you can do it without looking. Make it complete muscle memory and when you'll hit it in a match 100% of the time. Get it to the point where there is no thinking at all and its just your muscle memory kicking in. That, in my experience, is the best thing you can do. I spent hours getting my combos down and there is no thinking about it anymore It just happens

 

[infamy23]

when doing b2 do you ever accidentally knock them to the ground?

This used to happen to me at first, but it was a problem I corrected pretty quickly. Doesn't happen anymore. Just make a concious effort to tap the button and not hold it at all.

is it possible to do f4 and if it hit confirms is 123 > downward punch guaranteed? I know f4 > downward punch if hit confirmed is guaranteed but I saw tyrant do f4 then 123 into downward punch, but I'm pretty sure when he did that it wasn't really guaranteed but rather a mix up?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. I assume you're talking about heavy weapons?

f4 RC 123 bf2d is a combo, but only if the f4 hits on a later active frame, so you must do the f4 from max distance.

If you do the f4 from too close and it hits on the 1st active frame, then f4 RC 123 becomes *almost* guaranteed. Your opponent cannot duck, he cannot reversal, he cannot press a button, he cannot armor, but for some reason he can backdash out of this situation.

I have no idea why this happens. It's one of the only situations in this game that I don't have an explanation for.

From my point of view, if 123 jails after f4 RC, then it should combo. But apparently there is a situation in this game where auto-guard is disabled temporarily, and then becomes active again near the end of the hitstun window. During this tiny window, auto-guard is active which prevents the combo from continuing, but you are in a strange state of hitstun where you can't do anything except block or backdash.

I hope that answers your question. The properties of Jax's f4 are one of the most technically complicated in the game so it's difficult to explain without rambling about technical stuff.

 

[Soul Bound X]

There is never a good reason to mash In mortal kombat. Just don't mash. Time everything. Just try to always be focused . Even if you're losing. And you just have to get used to online. To do that just play and play and play. You really do just have to keep practicing online and you'll eventually get it.

 

[chrisisnice]

As far as mashing goes, it usually happens when you are trying to do combos too fast. It was a massive problem of mine too.

What I did was to go into practice mode (where there is no stress). slow it down a little and be really precise with the buttons I pressed. I would only allow myself to hit each button in the combo once or I would purposely drop it. eg say I was doing Kitana 11 lift, jk, fan I would follow that notation exactly only allowing one attempt at each touch of the buttons. If I stuffed up the timing of the fan (df1) after the jk, I would not try to quickly mash out another attempt at a fan and would instead drop the combo and start again. This really helped me. I would sometimes look away and do them like you suggested.

If you are dropping your B&B combos online, change them. It is better to go for combos that are simple and REALLY forgiving with timing online rather than going for optimal. I may do one for 36% offline with tight timing, but it often drops online and I end up with 9 - 17%. When I am online, I will always use my safer / easier combo for 33% which I will hit pretty much every time. It is a damage hit for sure, but it is worth it.

 

[Solignac]

Try to find some sparring partners that you can play against locally (or online) that you're comfortable with. This way it pretty much cuts the nerves of "how good is this guy" or "wow, he's playing a character I have no idea how to fight". It definitely helps to practice combos. You need to learn how to do them spontaneously but if you haven't done it at least once successfully in training mode, chances are you probably won't ever hit it in a match. And if you're so focused on the next time you can have a shot at the combo again, you'll throw all your fundamentals out the window because your head is in the wrong place.

 

[DanableLector]

@FuzzyDunlop I kind of know what you mean. I've played well against some really good players, and then proceed to go 1-2 vs some dude thats absolute garbage. Seriously, the guy used GM sub zero and after freezing me he would d2 me. I lost to that shit. It made me decide I am absolutely garbage at this game. Anyway, I need serious work and amnfor surendownnto play 1v1's and hit up practice. Add DanableLector on PSN. Let's get better.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

f4 RC 123 bf2d is a combo, but only if the f4 hits on a later active frame, so you must do the f4 from max distance.

I did not know that about doing it from max range, that makes a lot of sense, I'm just now getting into the frame data stuff, pretty much all I know now is negative is punishable and staying plus gives you an advantage or some shit. I copy the good people really I'm not quite there yet.

If you do the f4 from too close and it hits on the 1st active frame, then f4 RC 123 becomes *almost* guaranteed. Your opponent cannot duck, he cannot reversal, he cannot press a button, he cannot armor, but for some reason he can backdash out of this situation.

I hope that answers your question. The properties of Jax's f4 are one of the most technically complicated in the game so it's difficult to explain without rambling about technical stuff.

Yeah you pretty much did, I'm kinda bad at explaining stuff in the right terms, basically I was just wondering why after f4 he didn't downward punch and carry, instead he did f4 123 then downward punch, so I guess I was asking if the opponent can block after the f4 if done correctly?

It just didn't seem like it would be smart to give up a guaranteed full carry unless the 123 was definitely gonna connect? If that makes sense?

Pretty much this:

123 > downward punch (if 123 connects at any point 100% you can do the full string)
f4 > downard punch (if f4 connects you can for sure carry)

But he did f4 123 > downward punch - certainly he wouldn't do this unless he knew he had the full carry?

I used to play heavy weapons Jax but I recently switched because I felt like if I wasn't going to learn the rocket cancels then whats the point? At that point I only have a projectile, and wrestler has a projectile as well, so I've been learning the command grabs now, dbf1 is kinda a nightmare, anything with down then back forward has been a nightmare for any character, Jason especially, I end up jumping sometimes lol

Anyway, thanks for bearing with me.

 

[infamy23]

I feel you on the command grabs. I tried to play Jason for a bit and I was like screw this.

Anyway the reason you would cancel into 123 is to make it easier to confirm before you commit to an unsafe OH dash. This is the main benefit of heavy weapons and it's why I prefer that variation.

f4 123 will not always combo but it's easy to confirm whether it did or not so it makes sense to do f4 RC 123 every time and then confirm into the overhead. The only time someone would do f4 OH dash is if your using it to punish something.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

@infamy23 One last question sir, what is the difference between doing a rocket cancel and simply not pulling the rocket out at all and continuing the combo?

I've heard that the rocket cancels are used to extend combos and provide more pressure, I just can't wrap my head around the difference between doing the rocket cancel or not? Does doing the rocket cancel keep you plus or something? Or does it just extend the string basically? Like I played Raiden for a while when I first started until I started attempting the LRC, I was like yeah I'm not ready for this. Don't get me wrong I still play Raiden and is very easy to play, especially against my friends, he just seems to damn punishable against competent people I kinda stay away from him.

 

[Doombawkz]

As a lab monster, allow me to impart some advice on at least the mashing problem.

I used to be in the same boat. Luckily for me I played Bane and F/T so the inputs were mostly short and easy, but I still found myself mashing out on some things and as it turns out, mashing makes you miss timings more frequently. Inputting the thing when the animation ends rather than during it actually makes the move come out a few frames faster. For this reason, mashing is a habit that needs controlling. If you can master your hands, a whole new world of combos and potential opens up to you.

Now for the actual advice, when you do combos try to limit yourself. What I mean by this is instead of making your hands rip through f.21b.d.2 as a full string input, take it one thing at a time and learn the windows you can play around in. If you are doing a 5-press combo (so to say the combo uses 5 button presses) like say f.21 d.b.2 f.2xxb.f.2 for instance, then limit the amount of inputs to exactly 5 buttons.

Turn on button log, and attempt to do that bare-minimum combo with no extra presses involved. If you find yourself say mashing out the 2 part of d.b.2, thats not so much an execution error as a lack of confidence in your ability to correctly input the command. Thats what it comes down to. Yes, practice will raise consistency but you need to become more confident as a player and say to yourself "If I input this command, this WILL happen". Erase "should" from your FGC vocabulary, it either "will" or it won't.

When you take things to practice mode, do so to build confidence and muscle memory. One without the other creates problems as either you'll second guess your inputs and miss timings or over-input to compensate (lack of confidence) or your hands will fumble commands entirely and while you may have the mind your body won't react (lack of muscle memory). When you have both, you not only boost your ability to do combos in a vacuum setting, but you enable your entire body to react to what it processes during an actual match.

What makes Sonicfox look like he does and play in the way he plays isn't just raw skill, its the fact that he can be confident in his moves and timings. He is able to force a certain set of answers, and has basically programmed his eyes, hands, and mind to look for those answers and their differences and react accordingly. Its also why his "yolo factor" exists in the way it does. Its not a lack of experience or a simple reckless move, its a calculated risk he has prepared for, and his opponent has not. He is confident in his play, so much so that even if it fails he ensures before commiting to them that the opponent won't get so far ahead that he can't fix it. As a lab monster, not to say I know best but we have eyes for these plays. We don't see them as random, we see them as a player forcing their opponent to climb to their level of perception of the match.


As an ancient saying says "Learn as though you would never be able to master it; hold it as though you would be in fear of losing it." Even after labbing, never assume its enough. Its not enough to simply rise to the level of your opponent, you must strive to overtake them, and anyone else. Even when you reach the top, you must continue to work and perfect your form, and hold those fundamentals and practices above all else, as though if you do not you will surely fail.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

@Doombawkz Christ man really really appreciate all this wisdom honestly, I'm gonna need to spend more time in the lab for sure. I'm going to especially work with the windows, I always got to remind myself at least on some of the string that "hey.. you have PLENTY of time to input the rest of the string, the character does indeed have to DO the combo, I have plenty of time."

It was just weird watching Sonicfox play online and as Jax and just obviously had a gameplan, like sometimes I'll find myself being like oh shit can't do anything with Jax from far lemme sprint at this motherfucker and boom punished, just little stupid stuff like that, need a better gameplan sometimes. It baffled me when I learned how important pokes were and stuff, putting the AI on always block and reversal helped a lot.

Anyway, thanks again, gotta hit the lab with these ideas in mind.