Cyber and his bombs

[Flagg]

Do any of you guys try and use his bombs at all for pressure.

I know of U4 into bomb and I've seen Pig keep pressure on by chucking bombs down into corners after grounding someone and I know the "Glue Trap", which i've used myself to quite a bit of success. But is it viable to cancel strings into bombs?

Like B22 bomb or 2, 1 into bomb, F221 into bomb just as examples, or are blocked strings cancelled into bombs super unsafe?

It just seems that his best weapon is his dive kicks. While I wont complain, i'd like to think there is more to him then centering around his Dive kick and the occasional Slide. His teleport is garbage (imo), his ice projectile is something I use sparingly but i'd really like to use his bombs more.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Do any of you guys try and use his bombs at all for pressure.

Use the short bomb like a rolling ice clone, and stay just behind it.

After an anti air jump punch, I like to go into B22 into Mid bomb.

They are space controllers above all else.

 

[Altaire]

Do any of you guys try and use his bombs at all for pressure.

I know of U4 into bomb and I've seen Pig keep pressure on by chucking bombs down into corners after grounding someone and I know the "Glue Trap", which i've used myself to quite a bit of success. But is it viable to cancel strings into bombs?

Like B22 bomb or 2, 1 into bomb, F221 into bomb just as examples, or are blocked strings cancelled into bombs super unsafe?

It just seems that his best weapon is his dive kicks. While I wont complain, i'd like to think there is more to him then centering around his Dive kick and the occasional Slide. His teleport is garbage (imo), his ice projectile is something I use sparingly but i'd really like to use his bombs more.

Try? I use them constantly, to the point where I wonder how the hell I ever made do without them. If you can incorporate bombs into your playstyle without negatively affecting what you do with the character, your Cyber Sub play will level up considerably. It's definitely worth the time to learn how to do this.

Cyber Sub's bombs are used as a deterrent more than anything, but it's possible to pin your opponent on a bomb with a divekick, EX divekick or blockstring. This is one way in which Cyber Sub has an advantage over Cyrax: Whereas Cyrax has to patiently try and herd his opponent into a net, Cyber Sub can actively pressure his opponent while a bomb is on the screen. If your opponent jumps, you can EX freeze, teleport, NJP, U4 slide (you literally always have time to do this off an air freeze from any distance, as long as the freeze didn't trade with anything). If they try to block-dash out, you can EX divekick to pin them on the bomb; as long as you time it far enough into the bomb's fuse, the blockstun will pin them on the bomb; even on a non-freeze bomb, this is 5% chip + 8% for the freeze. Off a 37% U4 bomb cancel combo, that's a full 50%.

Even without spending meter, you still have options. If your opponent jumps back, you can AA slide, provided you're close enough. If they jump towards you, you can reaction uppercut into a slide for 20%. No, you do NOT want to risk a parry, because you're going to get blown up if you guess wrong and your opponent does a naked jump in to avoid the parry; you should only use a reaction parry against a jump in any instance where it's too late/too risky to try and uppercut.

I also don't reccommend using blockstrings into bomb setups, with the sole exception of F2 2 1 into close bomb. That's something Usedforglue came up with, and it's truthfully pretty smart in most matchups. I wouldn't recommend it against characters like Cage, Reptile, Raiden or Kenshi, who can punish you with fast advancing specials. Any other time, however, your opponent's only option to get at you is to jump in, in which case you can reaction uppercut into slide. This setup is great more so for the fact that any bomb launched off a blockstring WILL actually freeze, so your opponent has that much more room for error.

My guide is going to be posted tomorrow night, and it's going to include an in-depth breakdown on bomb setups. Be sure to check it out if you're trying to incorporate bombs into your game.

 

[Flagg]

I've been playing around with stuff, Glue.

For instance, if they block F221, this pushes them away and if you cancel into a short bomb, it will appear between you and them. If you throw the medium bomb and carry on pressure, you could push them onto the bomb, but then I guess a good and fast player would read this?

I mean last night in training, I put the dummy on block and I went for B22, medium bomb, dash, 121+2, jump kick into X Ray. 50%, even if they block as the bomb combines with the 1+2. Now im not one of these players looking for X Ray combos as I prefer to use meter for breakers and ex moves. But I just wonder if stuff like that is viable, or just gimmicky. Can a good player simply react to that? Could you use the 21into bomb as a mixup, and use 211+2 if they think you will throw a bomb and try and counter.

I realise some of this stuff may sound a bit nooby, I just like to explore absolutely as many avenues as possible when I play a character. I find a lot of players use multiple characters and are just one trick ponies, but I prefer to dedicate more time to just one character and try and get the absolute best out of them.

Try? I use them constantly, to the point where I wonder how the hell I ever made do without them. If you can incorporate bombs into your playstyle without negatively affecting what you do with the character, your Cyber Sub play will level up considerably. It's definitely worth the time to learn how to do this.

Cyber Sub's bombs are used as a deterrent more than anything, but it's possible to pin your opponent on a bomb with a divekick, EX divekick or blockstring. This is one way in which Cyber Sub has an advantage over Cyrax: Whereas Cyrax has to patiently try and herd his opponent into a net, Cyber Sub can actively pressure his opponent while a bomb is on the screen. If your opponent jumps, you can EX freeze, teleport, NJP, U4 slide (you literally always have time to do this off an air freeze from any distance, as long as the freeze didn't trade with anything). If they try to block-dash out, you can EX divekick to pin them on the bomb; as long as you time it far enough into the bomb's fuse, the blockstun will pin them on the bomb; even on a non-freeze bomb, this is 5% chip + 8% for the freeze. Off a 37% U4 bomb cancel combo, that's a full 50%.

Even without spending meter, you still have options. If your opponent jumps back, you can AA slide, provided you're close enough. If they jump towards you, you can reaction uppercut into a slide for 20%. No, you do NOT want to risk a parry, because you're going to get blown up if you guess wrong and your opponent does a naked jump in to avoid the parry; you should only use a reaction parry against a jump in any instance where it's too late/too risky to try and uppercut.

I also don't reccommend using blockstrings into bomb setups, with the sole exception of F2 2 1 into close bomb. That's something Usedforglue came up with, and it's truthfully pretty smart in most matchups. I wouldn't recommend it against characters like Cage, Reptile, Raiden or Kenshi, who can punish you with fast advancing specials. Any other time, however, your opponent's only option to get at you is to jump in, in which case you can reaction uppercut into slide. This setup is great more so for the fact that any bomb launched off a blockstring WILL actually freeze, so your opponent has that much more room for error.

My guide is going to be posted tomorrow night, and it's going to include an in-depth breakdown on bomb setups. Be sure to check it out if you're trying to incorporate bombs into your game.

This is exactly what I was looking for! I don't see people use his bombs nearly enough and I was beginning to wonder why and if there was a reason for that, was I wasting my time, and im glad im not now!

I really feel CSZ is one of those characters that has so much unlocked potential still. And I can't wait for your guide! I know he is considered lower than the other two robots, but I love fighting against them and I don't think the fights against Sektor or Cyrax are 100% in their favour.

 

[Might Tested]

I've had success with a few small tricks, which, Cyber loves his tricks...
These are not guaranteed, these are just tricks...
If you're midscreen, throw out a mid-bomb and just divekick, it'll sometimes catch people in mid air, or they'll sit there blocking or dash forward, in which case the dive kick chips em', but they can't punish in fear of getting hit by the bomb. Not guaranteed based on the character.
If you're far away, throw out a mid or long bomb, the opponent tends to jump out of natural reaction to seeing a bomb at their feet, immediately throw out an ex-Freeze after the bomb, and they get frozen in mid-air. If you teleport immediately, and immediately NJP -as fast as you can-, you catch them before they drop, and can go into an U4 slide, or an U4-bomb setup, which I find more useful.
If you catch someone with the 3,4, go into the B22xxMidBomb. The bomb lands right on their feet, so when they get up, they are forced to commit to an action, be it wake-up, jump, or a techroll. In some cases, the tech roll doesn't roll back far enough, and they are hit anyway, and some people's wakeups like Ermac's make him sit still, so he gets hit by the bomb despite invincibility frames due to the bomb's delay. So in most scenario's, time your dive kick so that they'll get hit if they jump and it'll connect if the bomb catches them. Again, not a guarantee, but a nice little setup for good damage.

After you do a 121+2 launcher, you can do an U4xxMidBomb. You can either use his gigantic Kori Blade after a half-dash ( B1,2), which is relatively safe, even on most wakeups, and you can't jump over it, because the sword will catch them in midair or prelaunch, and they'll get hit right into the bomb for good damage. Your opponent can tech-roll this, and in some cases wakeup, but again, this is just a nice little trick that is character based and comes in handy.
After that same, midair launcher, U4xxMidBomb, I find it handy that, with players like Ermac or Sektor who have shitty wakeups, you dash forward, 121+2, and even if they are blocking, they will get launched similar to the standing U4 trap, and after the launch, you can go into another midair U4xxMidBomb gimmick. This is not the StandingU4xxMidBomb Trap, this is done after you launch an opponent. Again, this is character based, and not guaranteed, but it limits your opponents options, and if pressured correctly, can force a wakeup, or if they are unaware of what to do, guarantees another launch.
Cyber Sub relies heavily on his tricks, and since many people do not have practice against high-level Cyber's, they may not know hot to properly deal with every Cyber scenario. They may make a mistake, compared to everyone knowing how to deal with Sub Zero tech, since it's so common.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I've been playing around with stuff, Glue.

For instance, if they block F221, this pushes them away and if you cancel into a short bomb, it will appear between you and them. If you throw the medium bomb and carry on pressure, you could push them onto the bomb, but then I guess a good and fast player would read this?

I mean last night in training, I put the dummy on block and I went for B22, medium bomb, dash, 121+2, jump kick into X Ray. 50%, even if they block as the bomb combines with the 1+2. Now im not one of these players looking for X Ray combos as I prefer to use meter for breakers and ex moves. But I just wonder if stuff like that is viable, or just gimmicky. Can a good player simply react to that? Could you use the 21into bomb as a mixup, and use 211+2 if they think you will throw a bomb and try and counter.

I realise some of this stuff may sound a bit nooby, I just like to explore absolutely as many avenues as possible when I play a character. I find a lot of players use multiple characters and are just one trick ponies, but I prefer to dedicate more time to just one character and try and get the absolute best out of them.

Yea cool. All of that is in the Guide I posted.

I use F221 Short bomb on block. Problem is, if the opponent is crouch blocking and you dive kick them into the short bomb, it will not freeze them, and F221 does not jail them in a standing block, so you can't even tell from watch the opponents block.

 

[Might Tested]

Oh Glue, I was wondering, when you freeze an opponent low to the ground, and so they'll fall before you have a chance to NJP or what have you, but you still have enough time to teleport over,
Should you:
a)33xxsSlide
b)34 - Slide (So low that you can't even B22)
or c) F122xxSlide
or d) Jump Kick + Divekick

 

[Flagg]

Yea cool. All of that is in the Guide I posted.

I use F221 Short bomb on block. Problem is, if the opponent is crouch blocking and you dive kick them into the short bomb, it will not freeze them, and F221 does not jail them in a standing block, so you can't even tell from watch the opponents block.

I noticed a couple of days ago playing around with bombs in the lab, how crouch blocking to stand blocking affects how you can "trap" people. If you throw EX bomb next to someone you can half dash and 33 them into the bombs. They get caught by 2 bombs, and you can 34 into slide for about 36%. If they are crouching, they only get caught by one bomb, 26%. I know I need to be using njp into U4 slide on a ground freeze, but i've just transfered over onto a stick in the last week and some stuff seems a lot harder on the stick then my pad, so im keeping it relatively simple till im 100% comfortable with the stick.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Oh Glue, I was wondering, when you freeze an opponent low to the ground, and so they'll fall before you have a chance to NJP or what have you, but you still have enough time to teleport over,
Should you:
a)33xxsSlide
b)34 - Slide (So low that you can't even B22)
or c) F122xxSlide
or d) Jump Kick + Divekick

If i freeze them and they are low to the ground, up close I will NJP - U4 Slide.
From distance I just cut my losses and slide them, still gives you an untech-able knockdown. And thats what you want anyway.

 

[UsedForGlue]

If I was to make any changes to the bombs, it would be the same blast radius, cool down and start up time as Cyrax's, considering you can't double freeze, or deploy them after ice ball combos...

But, i would love it, if they froze the opponents feet, exactly like Sub-Zeros floor freeze animation. That means you can keep your pressure from u4 teleport, or start JIP combos. No idea why they don't have this animation.

 

[Flagg]

Is there a reason as well that sometimes bombs will just pop characters up instead of freezing? Is that a glitch or to do with where the opponent is in regards to the bomb exploding?

 

[Verstande]

Bombs are usually successful against characters that don't have teleports.

 

[Might Tested]

Bombs are usually successful against characters that don't have teleports.

This.
The level of abuse you can do on teleport-less characters, or those with slow teleports, is horrendous up close.

 

[Flagg]

This.
The level of abuse you can do on teleport-less characters, or those with slow teleports, is horrendous up close.

Now you mention it, you're right on this! Kinda ironic considering CYSub has the worst teleport in the game.

 

[Might Tested]

Now you mention it, you're right on this! Kinda ironic considering CYSub has the worst teleport in the game.

I'm assuming that his teleport was meant for mobility rather than for avoiding projectiles and incoming attacks like Cyrax can do.
With that said, going up against one of Cyber's hardest matchups, Sub Zero, it's imperative to teleport on reaction every time you jump at or are caught in mid air, and Sub Zero throws down a ice clone in front of your face. That way, instead of eating his ice clone, you simply teleport away. Although some would argue that you could punish his teleport, it's quite difficult, and most opponents would expect you to eat the ice clone, so they're not looking for a teleport anyway. Similar to Raiden, in that, if you see an ice clone, and your about to land in it, SUPERMAN DAT HOOOOOOO.

 

[Might Tested]

Also, when I catch someone with an ExFreeze in say, a trade, or a 33xxExFreeze,
You can Teleport-Parry-Teleport to build meter, and still be able to either cross up, or dash back for a jump in, depending on what side you want to send your opponent.
Also, if you wish to build 1/18 (hardly noticeable, but it will help) more meter, but are open to some weird input error, when you ExFreeze, you can close-bomb,mid-bomb,close-bomb, however, your only option will be to jump in. If you wish to cross over, you're going to have to throw out three mid-bombs. This builds hardly any more meter than the first situation, but your open to an input error, and it makes you look kinda...stupid.
If you regular freeze, you can teleport for some more meter too, but you'll be forced to cross up jump, and if you want to switch directions, you can't jump in.

 

[Flagg]

I'm assuming that his teleport was meant for mobility rather than for avoiding projectiles and incoming attacks like Cyrax can do.
With that said, going up against one of Cyber's hardest matchups, Sub Zero, it's imperative to teleport on reaction every time you jump at or are caught in mid air, and Sub Zero throws down a ice clone in front of your face. That way, instead of eating his ice clone, you simply teleport away. Although some would argue that you could punish his teleport, it's quite difficult, and most opponents would expect you to eat the ice clone, so they're not looking for a teleport anyway. Similar to Raiden, in that, if you see an ice clone, and your about to land in it, SUPERMAN DAT HOOOOOOO.

Against Kitana, there is just no point in teleporting. I even played against Sektor recently, and his missles were catching me before I could port out of dodge. It's got to the point I never use it or ONLY port if I freeze from the furthest distance and I know even I wont be able to get there in time with his nippy dashing. I do feel if CSZ was to get a buff, it needs to be either to speed up his teleport or improve his slide a bit more. I don't even mind how it doesn't have armour like human sub, but it should go under more projectiles I find.

As for SZ, well he can throw projectiles faster, he even has a better slide, but this is one match where CSub teleport is quite handy. I also don't find Raiden that hard. You can parry in the middle of some of Raidens strings, and you can make them respect the divekick after they port and try their immediate pressure.

 

[Might Tested]

I main Raiden, and the Cyber Sub matchup is quite easy to deal with if you know what to do.
If you divekick all the time, it's a free punish with his Superman.
Also, any smart Raiden is aware you can parry in between some of his strings. The verdict? He won't be doing those strings loosely. Or I myself will cut the string short, Cyber parries, I full on punish.
Cyber honestly doesn't need to have the best tools. While I do think some of his tools are near garbage like his "Punish me while I teleport, punish me while I already went invisible, and punish me when I land" teleport is pretty garby, it still has his uses. By themselves, his tools are piss poor. But if you use them fluidly together, you can't dodge a wrench if you're also dodging a ball.
That being said, I think his teleport takeoff should be similar to Cyrax's, but at least it has a nicer color.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Is there a reason as well that sometimes bombs will just pop characters up instead of freezing? Is that a glitch or to do with where the opponent is in regards to the bomb exploding?

The opponent has to able to block when the bomb is deployed for them to freeze. If the opponent is jumping or inputting a move, it won't freeze.

 

[Verstande]

The opponent has to able to block when the bomb is deployed for them to freeze. If the opponent is jumping or inputting a move, it won't freeze.

what if the opponent is dashing?

 

[Altaire]

Is there a reason as well that sometimes bombs will just pop characters up instead of freezing? Is that a glitch or to do with where the opponent is in regards to the bomb exploding?

Bombs won't freeze if they are launched while your opponent is in vulnerable frames, or hit while your opponent is in vulnerable frames. Non-freeze bombs still have their advantages, because if you're in a neutral state when the bomb hits, you almost always have enough advantage to throw out another bomb on knockdown.

This.
The level of abuse you can do on teleport-less characters, or those with slow teleports, is horrendous up close.

Reptile wants a word with you.

So does Kenshi. So does Kabal. So does Cage. So does Jax. So does Nightwolf. So do Liu Kang, Baraka, Stryker, Jade, Kano, Kitana, and Shang Tsung.

Teleports are the least of your worries where bomb setups are concerned. Raiden's superman, Cage's shadow kick, Reptile's dash, Jax's superman punch, you will get blown up by any of these if you're too bomb-happy at the wrong times.

Step one to doing well with Cyber Sub, or any other character: Don't listen to one word Verstande says. I'm honestly beginning to think he's some kind of elaborate meta-trolling account.

Also, there's no point to B1 after a U4 mid bomb cancel. If your opponent rolls, they'll escape any follow up anyway, but if they don't, you can just do dash 3 4. The bomb will hit just before the 4 juggles them, and you can follow with B2 2 slide. If they block, the bomb still hits them into the 3 4, and you get 28% plus the 2% chip on the 3. If they try to jump, you'll still beat them, and you get 31%. You can do U4 far bomb in anticipation of a roll, then dash B1 to check them, but unless they jump, you can't do anything about it; blocking nullifies this whole setup, unless your timing is down to the millisecond. You can hit confirm B1 into slide to push them into the bomb if you see that they aren't blocking, but doing B1 2 or B1 slide without a hit confirm is just dumb, as both are punishable by full combos on block.

Generally, there's no need to attempt any followup if your opponent starts rolling away. You either start doing U4 teleport into mid/close bomb to beat rolls, or you just throw a far bomb and let them roll back, then go from there. Rolling away from you is just going to mean backing further into the corner, more often than not.

 

[Verstande]

0________0

 

[Might Tested]

"Reptile wants a word with you.

"So does Kenshi. So does Kabal. So does Cage. So does Jax. So does Nightwolf. So do Liu Kang, Baraka, Stryker, Jade, Kano, Kitana, and Shang Tsung."

They'll have to wait their damn turn on the hill. Cyber don't play no shit.
B12 is character based. That is all.
And those bomb setups are nasty on Scorpions, Ermacs, Sub-Zeros, Shang Tsungs, and many other characters when they don't have the option to tech roll. Obviously when the option to tech roll is there, well disregard bomb setup, xxslide-slide-slide.
And too much of anything is going to get blown up.

 

[Altaire]

"Reptile wants a word with you.

"So does Kenshi. So does Kabal. So does Cage. So does Jax. So does Nightwolf. So do Liu Kang, Baraka, Stryker, Jade, Kano, Kitana, and Shang Tsung."

They'll have to wait their damn turn on the hill. Cyber don't play no shit.
B12 is character based. That is all.
And those bomb setups are nasty on Scorpions, Ermacs, Sub-Zeros, Shang Tsungs, and many other characters when they don't have the option to tech roll. Obviously when the option to tech roll is there, well disregard bomb setup, xxslide-slide-slide.
And too much of anything is going to get blown up.

...Uh, I wasn't even referring to B1 2 in that quote to begin with, but okay. Anyhow, if Ermac opts to do a wakeup, he'll snatch you with a lift and punish you with a full combo. You have no reason to ever use bomb setups against him on knockdown, especially when you run the risk of eating an invincible wakeup lift. Ermac is free as fuck on wakeup, so just cross him up and put your trollface on.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Is there a reason as well that sometimes bombs will just pop characters up instead of freezing? Is that a glitch or to do with where the opponent is in regards to the bomb exploding?

Yes, if the opponent can't block when you deply the bomb, then it won't freeze.
If the opponent is blocking low from a string such as B22 or F221 and you deploy the bomb while they are in that stance, it won't freeze.
If the opponent is doing a special move or normal move at the same time you deploy the bomb, it won't freeze.