TYM's collective Character placement after 8-31 patch(updated)

[Invincible Salads]

Hunter and HQT should probably be in the same tier.

 

[GAV]

Kind of unrelated, but I really wish they would bring back pre-patch Fisticuffs. That character was so friggin' hype!!!

The patch really did ruin him.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Hunter and HQT should probably be in the same tier.

i just felt HQT is quite possibly the best zoner, but i feel what HQT has Hunter lacks and has to rely on momentum for setups, and that would make MU problems... if you could elaberate on what would make HQT predator not S-7/3 on average or why Hunter is S tier or why they both need to be at 6/4 not in S tier then shoot. ill hear you out

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Kind of unrelated, but I really wish they would bring back pre-patch Fisticuffs. That character was so friggin' hype!!!

The patch really did ruin him.

yep i still cant get over how the speed bag pushes them away.... that was fuqing stupid.. i can see in the corner how that is annoying but you basically had to put yourself right in his face to have it on ya unless he opened you up. and leats face it, in that variation most know to just block OH and you should be able to spot that -18 or what ev 113, with SD and Alist i think the low pressure is beast and way easier to condition them into blocking low... but dat speed bag

 

[GAV]

i just felt HQT is quite possibly the best zoner, but i feel what HQT has Hunter lacks and has to rely on momentum for setups, and that would make MU problems... if you could elaberate on what would make HQT predator not S-7/3 on average or why Hunter is S tier or why they both need to be at 6/4 not in S tier then shoot. ill hear you out

I played both for a while.

I generally play Sun God. I seek out those I can't beat and add them. I practiced HQT and was able to beat a lot of the guys I couldn't with SG. Then, I learned Hunter - and beat them much worse.

Now, this was pre-patch - but I was considerably stronger in Hunter than I was in HQT - which was stronger than I was in SG - even though I was much more skilled in SG.

 

[IrishMantis]

well put.... i happen to know you are a very good SD, where would you place SD? let me further that request:

im glad they added that 213 speed reall helps end frame traps at distance where 114 would normally wiff. like i said before, i am not the master of every character and every matchup by no means, and i dont profess to be either, i made this thread well knowing that others would dissagree and that i would get the negative attention, and one handed comments.

i do however feel i have a good grasp on alot of characters. i currently do not have a main rather several.

im sure i am missing tricks strategy on MU's and alot of tech with most of the cast that just escaped me. (i learn more and more through videos, tech forums and so on. alot from fellow TYM'ers...) Thats why i need TYM's help in Tier placement, maybe we can come close to a universal agreement? kind of talk it out. and ill update the thread accordingly, after each patch, hotfix, DLC release. small gameplay changes, and when new tech is discovered by myself or others post publicly.


Where would you Place SD johnny cage and Alist Johnny cage and Fistycups? A-D

some people dont like having an S tier and a D tier, but they got to understand S does not mean they dominate all others(just mean they have special tools that give them a good matchup id say possibly 70/40 and D does not mean they can not win by far...

MKX has a huge comeback factor that MK9 i feel laked, along with MK9's serious S tier advantage over other characters... OMG Kabal was a frame monster of pressure,
Cyrax was a pressure and setup King.. sonya had serious armor advantage, JAx was obnoxious, and Johnny was superfast/and Liu...

if i may be as bold, even with MKX's serious problems... i feel it may be there most balanced game yet... i wont speak for IGAU but i here it was similar to MK9 in that aspect.

I wouldn't be able to give a specific Grade as I'm not too familiar with the other chars since that patch but I can come back to you on that one ,

I'm about the hit the bed so I won't be able to go into too much detail but I disagree on A-List being an entire grade over SD. I feel like A-List is more well rounded but I won't say he's definitely better, Alist pressure last as long he had stamina, SD pressure is only really fearful when he has mimics loaded, which he can only activate every 7 seconds plus it's a hefty start up unlike Alist who doesn't need to worry about getting hit out of start up too much. Plus AList Projectiles are better for most of the cast I feel as he has a choice too and forces opponents to get in or they eat chip full screen where as they can just neutral duck SDs fireballs( which can also work for SD given him a window to activate mimics and get access to a limited mid projectile)

Execution wise SD is easier to play as he doesn't need to worry about Stamina too much for combos which Alist does, but you can't judge a char on who's easier, you judge both at their most highest practical execution.

Don't get my wrong SD has stuff that Alist don't such as better damage, unbreakable dmg, mind games,etc

I just feel as it's not a whole tier above I would personally think AList is better but I wouldn't be able to say for definite

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I played both for a while.

I generally play Sun God. I seek out those I can't beat and add them. I practiced HQT and was able to beat a lot of the guys I couldn't with SG. Then, I learned Hunter - and beat them much worse.

Now, this was pre-patch - but I was considerably stronger in Hunter than I was in HQT - which was stronger than I was in SG - even though I was much more skilled in SG.

same here, not saying you are in this case, nut i basically blowed at HQT untill a few days before the nerf, picked him up late, but i was very good with Hunter, lol when he first came out he was terror for the unknowing of his low trap, untill fuzzy was matered, then i found a few that could RC into low block to set it off, then poke me while getting disk out... and well you know his speed on startup.

he is definitly a huge threat in all his variations, but i dont see as much good mu's with warrior which is my favorite looking one

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I wouldn't be able to give a specific Grade as I'm not too familiar with the other chars since that patch but I can come back to you on that one ,

I'm about the hit the bed so I won't be able to go into too much detail but I disagree on A-List being an entire grade over SD. I feel like A-List is more well rounded but I won't say he's definitely better, Alist pressure last as long he had stamina, SD pressure is only really fearful when he has mimics loaded, which he can only activate every 7 seconds plus it's a hefty start up unlike Alist who doesn't need to worry about getting hit out of start up too much. Plus AList Projectiles are better for most of the cast I feel as he has a choice too and forces opponents to get in or they eat chip full screen where as they can just neutral duck SDs fireballs( which can also work for SD given him a window to activate mimics and get access to a limited mid projectile)

Execution wise SD is easier to play as he doesn't need to worry about Stamina too much for combos which Alist does, but you can't judge a char on who's easier, you judge both at their most highest practical execution.

Don't get my wrong SD has stuff that Alist don't such as better damage, unbreakable dmg, mind games,etc

I just feel as it's not a whole tier above I would personally think AList is better but I wouldn't be able to say for definite

ok im pretty sure i got the fisty wrong, ill place alist with sd because lets face it, your a better johnny than i am

but ill wait for you to get back with me to replace them,, and hopfully tell me where Fisty should really be!

 

[Invincible Salads]

i just felt HQT is quite possibly the best zoner, but i feel what HQT has Hunter lacks and has to rely on momentum for setups, and that would make MU problems... if you could elaberate on what would make HQT predator not S-7/3 on average or why Hunter is S tier or why they both need to be at 6/4 not in S tier then shoot. ill hear you out

well the only thing that really changed for predator is 3 not hitting mid and a bit of damage scaling, other than that, they pretty much function the same.

hqt has great zoning and some decent pressure. Hunter has great space control, great footsies, and earthshaker style 50/50 setups that lead to full combos. They should both be in the same tier, their just different flavors,

 

[MadeOfMetal]

well the only thing that really changed for predator is 3 not hitting mid and a bit of damage scaling, other than that, they pretty much function the same.

hqt has great zoning and some decent pressure. Hunter has great space control, great footsies, and earthshaker style 50/50 setups that lead to full combos. They should both be in the same tier, their just different flavors,

what are your thoughts on cannon RC into mixup pressure, and connon pressure as a whole, i feel its a huge aspect that Hunter lacks along with full screen zoning. yes Hunter has great map control, but he has to have the momentum, what about characters that can teleport to take away him momentum? where HQT can revert with more pressure?
can anyone weigh in on this, preferably some HQT mains?

 

[Invincible Salads]

what are your thoughts on cannon RC into mixup pressure, and connon pressure as a whole, i feel its a huge aspect that Hunter lacks along with full screen zoning. yes Hunter has great map control, but he has to have the momentum, what about characters that can teleport to take away him momentum? where HQT can revert with more pressure?
can anyone weigh in on this, preferably some HQT mains?

honestly i think teleporters would be more trouble for HQT than Hunter. Seeing as HQT would probably be more openned up to teleporting characters than hunter would. I remember seeing somewhere that hunter is like a much better subzero basically.

like i said, it depends what u want, if you want zoning and pressure, go HQT, if u want more space control and nigh unblockable 50/50 setups then go Hunter.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

honestly i think teleporters would be more trouble for HQT than Hunter. Seeing as HQT would probably be more openned up to teleporting characters than hunter would. I remember seeing somewhere that hunter is like a much better subzero basically.

like i said, it depends what u want, if you want zoning and pressure, go HQT, if u want more space control and nigh unblockable 50/50 setups then go Hunter.

pretty sure that was brady's comment, and im not sure it applies after Subs patch changes, Cryo from what i hear got a boost over GM, and im sure he was refering to when sub's best variation was GM and the other two suffered.

now i honestly feel sub is his own character, and can hold his own, alot of new tools to open up with strings that safley lead to freeze...

but as i said ill have to get a few comments from others on HQTvsHunter, i have personnaly seen HQT stop tele into low projectile into RC pressure, remember where Hunter has low pressure from snag/trap basically only safe with meter, HQT has low beam... so they are pretty even on mix up, and HQT has added RC for mixupability that Hunter lacks.... dont get me wrong... if i was to use one of the two, it would be Hunter, beccause that is my playstyle, love setups.

but i need more opinions to change tiers.
he and Hunter are at this point up for debate and to be relisted based on TYM agreement.

 

[omooba]

Take it with a grain of salt...


My thoughts on MKX Kombatant placement after 8-31-2015, no particular order.

I don’t put much value in Tier placements especially in MKX, I feel even the bottom is viable, D is the exception where I feel they have close to no good MU’s, but someone can rock them im sure.

i am not the master of every character and every matchup by no means, and i dont profess to be either, i made this thread well knowing that others would dissagree and that i would get the negative attention, and one handed comments.

i do however feel i have a good grasp on alot of characters. i currently do not have a main rather several.

im sure i am missing tricks strategy on MU's and alot of tech with most of the cast that just escaped me. (i learn more and more through videos, tech forums and so on. alot from fellow TYM'ers...) Thats why i need TYM's help in Tier placement, maybe we can come close to a universal agreement? kind of talk it out. and ill update the thread accordingly, after each patch, hotfix, DLC release. small gameplay changes, and when new tech is discovered by myself or others post publicly.



<<S Tier>> 7/3 on average(not unbeatable)

Kung Lao (Buzz Saw)
Kung Lao (Tempest)
Shinnok (Boneshaper)
Quan Chi (Summoner)
Quan Chi (Sorcerer)
Tanya (Kobu Jutsu)
Predator (HQT)

<<A Tier>> 6/4 on average
Erron Black (Gunslinger)
Jax (Heavy Weapons)
D'Vorah (Swarm Queen)
Reptile (Deceptive)
Reptile (Nimble)
Liu Kang (Dragon's Fire)
Cassie Cage (Hollywood)
Cassie Cage (Brawler)
Jacqui Briggs (Full Auto)
Shinnok (Impostor)
Quan Chi (Warlock)
Kitana (Royal Storm)
Kenshi (Possessed)
Sub-Zero (Cryomancer)
Kotal Kahn (Blood God)
Raiden (Thunder God)
Kitana (Mournful)
Jax (Pumped Up)
Predator (Hunter)
D'Vorah (Venomous)
Erron Black (Marksman)
Tremor (Aftershock)
Erron Black (Outlaw)
Jax (Wrestler)
Mileena (Ethereal) requested by GAV


<<B Tier>> 5/5 on average

Liu Kang (Dualist)
Liu Kang (Flame Fist)
Takeda (Shirai Ryu)
Sub-Zero (Grandmaster)
Kitana (Assassin)
Reptile (Noxious)
Johnny Cage (A-List) <will be updated>
Johnny Cage (Stunt Double) <will be updated>
Sonya (Demolition)
D'Vorah (Brood Mother)
Kano (Cutthroat)
Cassie Cage (Spec Ops)
Sonya (Covert Ops)
Jacqui Briggs (Shotgun)
Mileena (Ravenous)
Mileena (Piercing)
Tremor (Crystalline)
Tanya (Dragon Naginata)
Scorpion (Inferno)
Shinnok (Necromancer)
Jason (Relentless)
Ferra/Torr (Ruthless)
Kenshi (Kenjutsu)
Ermac (Master of Souls)
Kotal Kahn (War God)
Kung Jin (Shaolin)
Scorpion (Hellfire)
Tremor (Metallic)
Takeda (Ronin)
Kano (Commando)



<<C Tier>> <<5/5-4/5>>

Kung Jin (Bojutsu)
Sonya (Special Forces)
Jacqui Briggs (High Tech)
Kung Lao (Hat Trick)
Sub-Zero (Unbreakable)
Scorpion (Ninjitsu)
Kano (Cybernetic)
Goro (Tigrar Fury)
Goro (Kuatan Warrior)
Ermac (Mystic)
Kotal Kahn(Sun God)
Kung Jin (Ancestral)
Raiden (Displacer)
Raiden (Master of Storms)
Takeda (Lasher)
Jason (Slasher)
Tanya (Pyromancer)
Predator (Warrior)
Ferra/Torr (Lackey)
Ermac (Spectral)


<<D Tier>> (5/5-4.5/5-to-below)on average(not shitty-still viable)
Ferra/Torr (Vicious)
Kenshi (Balanced)
Goro (Dragon Fangs)
Jason (Unstopable)

To be replaced:
Johnny Cage (Fisticuffs)



I did my best to put them where I felt they should be… let me know if you feel something should be changed and why… or just make your own

dont take any of the placements to heart. its just my version of tier list. not concrete, and can be changed at any time, patches are coming, dlc's on the way. who knows with all the tech being discovered each day among the die hard MK fans, if you have another opinion where some should be placed help me see it explain what needs changed and why, also where they should be placed... in time this could be a community agreed upon tier list, if thats possible?

i really didn't wanna bitch about this cus i felt you're really brave to post a tier list just a week after a huge ass patch so i'll keep it short, you put dualist above and vicious ferra?!?!?! bojutsu?!?!?!

 

[MadeOfMetal]

i really didn't wanna bitch about this cus i felt you're really brave to post a tier list just a week after a huge ass patch so i'll keep it short, you put dualist above and vicious ferra?!?!?! bojutsu?!?!?!

not at all, complain away, just add: reasons why they should not be there, where you think they should be, and why they would have that MU7/3-3/7or lower?

also to note there is no order within each tier...

in each tier they are within a MU placement, basically if TYM feels they are 5/5 higher or lower on average....

i have ferra low on tier because ferra in general lacks what others have... and most mixup tools can be broken... in Ruthless im coming to understand that there is +15 on block strings.
4P&GRC-B1212 = +10 on block
F2P&GRC-F2 =+15 on block

tolls like this as well as using
B121 and 4, 11,
into: P&G which adds armor for startup to recovery of Pain and gain, so single hitting reversals off block will not go through, and allows ferra to continue damage. also to note gains Stcks of damage with each P&G which last for 10 seconds unless you or your opponent uses xray successfully!
thats why i feel Ruthless is above the others... and vicious im am to uderstand has enough problems with strings, so help me understand otherwise?

 

[omooba]

not at all, complain away, just add: reasons why they should not be there, where you think they should be, and why they would have that MU7/3-3/7or lower?

aight i haven't thought that much about dualist liukang's match ups but i play him and ferra and bojutsu and i feel that they are worlds better than dualist, especially after the patch which did nerf f213. i'll edit this in the morning to better explain why

 

[MadeOfMetal]

aight i haven't thought that much about dualist liukang's match ups but i play him and ferra and bojutsu and i feel that they are worlds better than dualist, especially after the patch which did nerf f213. i'll edit this in the morning to better explain why

i updated my last post reread through it... also i do have to go to bed at some point, so if i dont relpy i will tomarrow

ESG JAgged Said: i have ferra low on tier because ferra in general lacks what others have... and most mixup tools can be broken... in Ruthless im coming to understand that there is +15 on block strings.
4P&GRC-B1212 = +10 on block
F2P&GRC-F2 =+15 on block

tolls like this as well as using
B121 and 4, 11,
into: P&G which adds armor for startup to recovery of Pain and gain, so single hitting reversals off block will not go through, and allows ferra to continue damage. also to note gains Stcks of damage with each P&G which last for 10 seconds unless you or your opponent uses xray successfully!
thats why i feel Ruthless is above the others... and vicious im am to uderstand has enough problems with strings, so help me understand otherwise?

 

[Invincible Salads]

what exactly boosts cryo over grandmaster though?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

what exactly boosts cryo over grandmaster though?

extra strings, 2in1 cancel(added hammer on end of combos for simi HKD to extra damage) extra strings to open up, safer pressure... and so on... im tired ill update when i fully wake up tomarrow...

 

[Invincible Salads]

extra strings, 2in1 cancel(added hammer on end of combos for simi HKD to extra damage) extra strings to open up, safer pressure... and so on... im tired ill update when i fully wake up tomarrow...

i've fought a cryo, i wouldnt say he has "pressure" from what i've seen, but yes, please do elaborate, i want to know whats up

 

[chrisisnice]

Wow, this list reminds me of why I don't like lists with all variations. Arrrrgh.. my eyes!!!!

 

[Schuyler]

this list is so fucked lol

 

[SaSSolino]

both predators are S tier in my opinion

 

[Prinz]

At least you made a list based on variations...
Posessed A tier. Kenshi community should appologize.

 

[SM StarGazer]

this list is so fucked lol

Care to explain why? Its a discussion dude. Add yojr opinion so we can make itbetter or gtfo. Useless comment don't help.

P.S. I place Cryo over grandmaster because of his ice based specials, andnormals. Ice cant freeze ice so you can sometime blow GM up with a well timed d2. Ex Ice Hammerto getout of thecorner/ great pressure and a fucking vortex. Cryois the truth.

 

[Wam-Zlay]

your list is pretty good imo. I´d replace some variations, but i guess ~80% of the list is correct