Can anyone teach me how to calculate Cancel advantage on block after RC?

[MadeOfMetal]

ok ive been having this problem,

ive been using Johnny Cage A-List

and would like to know basic calculations for how much advantage on block i should be after 121RC

and 114BF4RC

and 11DB4RC

can anyone tell me how to do this?

@Eddy Wang
@Fraud Blank

 

[infamy23]

The frame data is not reliable so you'll need to use a capture card if you want exact numbers.

I can test for you if you want.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

i want a formula for it, but if you have to use capture card, can you tell me or show me where you start from and where you end, so i can try to do it myself on avid mux.

teach a man to fish

The frame data is not reliable so you'll need to use a capture card if you want exact numbers.

I can test for you if you want.

can you test:

Johnny Cage A-List

121RC
114DB4RC
11DB4RC
F24DB4RC
11BF4RC
F24BF4RC
114BF4RC
11,121RC i was wondering if the +2 from 11 carries onto the 121 RC + frames?

 

[infamy23]

The formula is as follows, I'll use 114bf4RC as an example:

C = Cancel Frame - Frame of Contact (frame of contact is the 1st active frame of the 4 in 114. Cancel frame is the frame that the 4 cancels into the bf4 animation)
F = Fireball Cancel Frame - Cancel Frame (fireball cancel frame is the frame that the fireball cancels into the run, cancel frame is the same number from above)
Blockstun = Reversal frame - Frame of Contact (The frame that the reversal starts to animate, minus the 1st active frame from the 4 in 114)

Block Advantage = Blockstun - (C+F)

I have not been able to determine what the hell "cancel" means when looking at the frame data, which is why I can't calculate anything using the in-game data. The only reliable way is to count the frames myself.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

The formula is as follows, I'll use 114bf4RC as an example:

C = Cancel Frame - Frame of Contact (frame of contact is the 1st active frame of the 4 in 114. Cancel frame is the frame that the 4 cancels into the bf4 animation)
F = Fireball Cancel Frame - Cancel Frame (fireball cancel frame is the frame that the fireball cancels into the run, cancel frame is the same number from above)
Blockstun = Reversal frame - Frame of Contact (The frame that the reversal starts to animate, minus the 1st active frame from the 4 in 114)

Block Advantage = Blockstun - (C+F)

I have not been able to determine what the hell "cancel" means when looking at the frame data, which is why I can't calculate anything using the in-game data. The only reliable way is to count the frames myself.

if you could test this i would be happy.

Johnny Cage A-List

121RC
114DB4RC
11DB4RC
F24DB4RC
11BF4RC
F24BF4RC
114BF4RC
11,121RC

alot of [people on here are saying 114BF4RC is +20 on block

i dont even see how its more than +2 since sub zero's slide breaks through between RC and whatever 7-9 frame move i use afterwords.

but if you could test id be greatful

the game says 11 is +2 on block, and 12 is +2 and 121 is +2 on block
with that thoery i should be able to go into F24 with no interupts or another 11 or 113 or another 121RC.
i don't believe the game frames on it is correct unless when you RC it not only resets your recover but your opponents as well, maybe im wrong but you will see on next video

[another video on the way]

 

[infamy23]

121RC +8
114db4RC +2
11db4RC -12
f24db4RC -5
11bf4RC +5
f24bf4RC +12
114bf4RC +19

I didn't test the last one because I'm not sure what you mean. 11,121?

Anyway these numbers are not absolute, there is a 1 frame margin of error but it is rare. So for example I determined that 114bf4RC is +19 but it is possible that it is +20

You have to keep in mind that even if you are +19, you still have to allow time for the run -> whatever which is gonna take a minimum of 2 frames.

So 114bf4RC d1 for example:

d1 hits on the 9th frame. If you don't cancel the bf4 on the first available frame, those extra frames must be added to the startup of d1. Then there is a minimum of 2 frames of running animation that also must be added.

So even if your execution is perfect, your d1 will hit on the 11th frame.

If SZ is interrupting you with slide then:

You are running too early, so the bf4 is not even coming out, but Johnny is still running at the end of his 114 recovery. (this is not a FBRC even though it may look like it so you are not +19)

You are not cancelling the bf4 on the first available frame. Every frame that passes is added to the startup of your next move. So if you cancel bf4 8 frames too late, then your d1 is going to hit on the 19th frame instead of the 11th.

You are not cancelling the run on the first available frame. Same as above, every frame that passes is added to the startup of your next move.

If your execution is close to perfect, 114bf4RC f4 is definitely a true blockstring which means this string is at least +16 even without testing.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@infamy23 so am i not doing fast enough or to fast?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I didn't test the last one because I'm not sure what you mean. 11,121?

11,121RC i was wondering if the +2 from 11 carries onto the 121 RC + frames?

 

[infamy23]

@infamy23 so am i not doing fast enough or to fast?

In the video above. You are inputting your run too early, so the bf4 is not even animating.

You must wait until his foot touches the ground, and the bf4 starts to animate before you press forward on the dpad.

If you press anything before it animates, the game will remove your special from the input buffer. (this is how option selects work for example)

 

[infamy23]

11,121RC i was wondering if the +2 from 11 carries onto the 121 RC + frames?

Sorry man I still don't know what this means lol

I don't know anything about Johnny so I guess I'm misunderstanding.

11 is +2 on block, but how does that relate to 121 RC?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Sorry man I still don't know what this means lol

I don't know anything about Johnny so I guess I'm misunderstanding.

11 is +2 on block, but how does that relate to 121 RC?

for some weird reson i was thinking,

his 11 string which the game says on block is +2 might carry over to the final result of 121RC. but it probably don't

ty, do you have any tips

for me to easily 121RC and 114SKRC? on the first frame?

 

[infamy23]

114 is already +2 so I don't even see the point of doing 114db4RC because you will waste your plus frames on the run animation.

121RC is easy because there's no special that can be removed from the buffer. So you can input like this:

12 (1+F) (F+Block) as fast as your fingers can manage.

114bf4RC seems to be the important one because that is a massive amount of plus frames. For that one you really just have to get a feel for when the bf4 starts animating, and then press FF+Block as fast as you can on that frame.

A good way to test whether you're doing it correctly is to go into training settings and turn your meter to zero. So if you do the cancel correctly, you will see that you built a tiny bit of extra meter for doing the bf4.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If i still remember right, you need to sum
startup + active + recover + Hit or block advantage (depending of what you're testing) then subtract with cancel.
You will have the real numbers