General/Other - Kano Coach Steve's Kano Change List for Potential New Patch

[Rude]

Lol @ some of these comments. Lots of Top Player bandwagon riding in this thread. In the grand scheme of things these request are barely any different than what I or most others have asked for inside of quite a few threads, yet we are met with "omg how dare you ask for up laser buffs, just B1 bro" or "if you add just one extra +frame he'd be Top 1 yo" comments.

All in all I agree with everything, but I would add ball priority on the list. It's retarded to get poked and grabbed out of a special in full blown animation on both regular and EX versions.

Also, @MrInsaynne im gonna need your receptionist phone number so she can tell me when I can catch you at Next Level for some offline Kano man!

Isn't it fucking breath taking that we've been saying some of this stuff for months and were called toxic for it, only for now everyone to agree because Coach Steve said so?

Not a blow up to him, mind you. I agree with him.

@Youphemism You disagree with this thread, right?

Because Kano is, "fine?"

 

[MrInsaynne]

Isn't it fucking breath taking that we've been saying some of this stuff for months and were called toxic for it, only for now everyone to agree because Coach Steve said so?

Not a blow up to him, mind you. I agree with him.

@Youphemism You disagree with this thread, right?

Because Kano is, "fine?"

I do think Kano is fine aside from the known glitches and the up ball. It's not enough of a hindrance for me to consider him a low tier character. I've worked with worse glitches before that killed characters in other games. So this is nothing for me, I would just like to see it get addressed.

 

[SaltShaker]

Some -8 strings can't be punished either (Like Cassie's F33), meanwhile reptiles 212 can be punished and it's -8. But good stuff testing. The problem remains that -6 is unpunishable. I can believe a misread, but the real problem I think it is is that the upball almost never hits on the first active frame, therefore it cant punish some things that are -6,7 or 8 and so on.

We're still running through the cast members but that's exactly what it is. You can even physically see where the problem is. The Upball doesn't punish Cassie's F34 like you said, but Lao's Spin and Sub-Zero's slide do punish it 10/10 times which are 7f and 8f. It would be better to have it consistent than try to remember the entire casts strings of which -7 and -8's can and can't be punished by a 6f move lol.

Even super tight in the corner you can't punish anything -6. It probably wouldn't even be that difficult for them to fix this, and by character design and lack of combo follow up, I can only assume the move was designed to react and punish -6 moves as the other characters who can for bigger follow ups.

 

[Rude]

I do think Kano is fine aside from the known glitches and the up ball. It's not enough of a hindrance for me to consider him a low tier character. I've worked with worse glitches before that killed characters in other games. So this is nothing for me, I would just like to see it get addressed.

I do want to pick your brain about the Cyber buffs you listed.

Now to be clear, i don't think he needs to be taking HUGE damage midscreen, but outside 112, I just don't think Cyber hits hard enough.

At least, not for spending a bar. Getting 31-33% midscreen with a bar is abysmal in my opinion.

What about priority on b23? It's a problematic string.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Isn't it fucking breath taking that we've been saying some of this for months and were called toxic for it, only for now everyone to agree because Coach Steve said so?

Not a blow up to him, mind you. I agree with him.

@Youphemism You disagree with this thread, right?

Because Kano is, "fine?"

After frequenting TYM for a few years this should be absolute zero surprise to you as it is to me. Extremely frustrating community mentality.

Anyway appreciate Coach doing this as Kano definitely needs some help. Even with it I think he'll still be a loyalist char as these are fixes not buffs IMO. He'll still be pretty honest compared to many so the goal of tourny's not turning into a what happened with Bone Shaper should hold true.

 

[MrInsaynne]

I do want to pick your brain about the Cyber buffs you listed.

Now to be clear, i don't think he needs to be taking HUGE damage midscreen, but outside 112, I just don't think Cyber hits hard enough.

At least, not for spending a bar. Getting 31-33% midscreen with a bar is abysmal in my opinion.

What about priority on b23? It's a problematic string.

more priority wouldnt fix it tbh. It's still 18 frames. Would be difficult to use regardless if it had priority or not.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

@MrInsaynne Steve, you mentioned F3,3 xx Rib Strike or Power Slam being susceptible to backdash. This is true; as the computer can do it. This is hard for a human though. Can you provide a video of you reversal backdashing F3,3 xx Command Grab consistently? Like 5 out of 5 or something. I don't doubt you, and I am not dogging you at all, but it has a super small window. At max range, I could backdash it 1/15. Perhaps my execution is ass, but I don't think so. That's why I wanted you to provide a video. It doesn't seem like a practical thing, and your best bet would be to armor in a F3,3 xx Command Grab or D4 xx Command Grab setup (Or parry if you're Kano).

Again, I am not dogging you or anything. I agree with your list, and I think you have quite the knowledge for the character. I just wanted to say it is impractical with some tick setups and if I am wrong please provide me proof.

 

[MrInsaynne]

@MrInsaynne Steve, you mentioned F3,3 xx Rib Strike or Power Slam being susceptible to backdash. This is true; as the computer can do it. This is hard for a human though. Can you provide a video of you reversal backdashing F3,3 xx Command Grab consistently? Like 5 out of 5 or something. I don't doubt you, and I am not dogging you at all, but it has a super small window. At max range, I could backdash it 1/15. Perhaps my execution is ass, but I don't think so. That's why I wanted you to provide a video. It doesn't seem like a practical thing, and your best bet would be to armor in a F3,3 xx Command Grab or D4 xx Command Grab setup (Or parry if you're Kano).

Again, I am not dogging you or anything. I agree with your list, and I think you have quite the knowledge for the character. I just wanted to say it is impractical with some tick setups and if I am wrong please provide me proof.

While it may feel impractical because the window is small but what you have to do really is make the safe assumption that once they do F3 it's gunna be a tick grab set up. That string really isnt used for anything else. As you mentioned, armoring defintely is a better decision in most cases if you read a tick grab.

As you asked, here you. 5 for 5, because once you know the timing of the string and when the grab comes out, you'll know the timing of the backdash.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

answers

Ahh ok, so it's a timing issue for me? Thanks for clearing it up. My execution is not bad, so I was wondering why this seemed so difficult. Thank you for the quick response!

 

[Dizzy]

Ya I kind of thought so too. But when should I be using it? I don't see a use for it right now even though I have seen players such as you and digit use it.

It's a mid armored launcher. Use it if you think the opponent will press a button and get a combo.

 

[Grec]

Does Kano really need buffs, though? It's in the spirit of his character to be a jobber.

 

[Zoidberg747]

so how about I record the AI doing the string to me and then blocking, and then I do the flip kick? Idk how much more proof you guys need plus this has been stated the first month of the game. A move thats -6,-7,-8 etc can be punished by a special move that starts up in that same number frame, while a string needs to be one frame faster. I know the AI is weird, so would anybody really think I wouldnt test this against another human months into the game?

This is true. Tanya csn punish -7 moves with 7f tele but cant punish -7 moves with her 7f normal.

Edit: Keep in mind also a lot of things that should b punishable aren't in this game because of either weird blockstunor wrong frame data.

 

[Zatoichi]

I completely agree with the fixes... Kano getting fixes is a must.

I DO personally think Commando 32 doing 10% like CT and Cyber instead of 7% would greatly help though. It would make Wood Chipper do 21% and make up for Commando having no practical combos IMO. For Cybernetic, Up Laser could use less start up and recovery frames. There are other changes I want for Kano but after thinking about it, I really don't want everyone and their mother using Kano.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

Does Kano really need buffs, though? It's in the spirit of his character to be a jobber.

eh I don't want to fight the game
but yeah Upwards Laser Redesign from being just a brutality to an actual tool.

This change for Cybernetic may be the only thing I would appreciate for this specific variation outside of the universal fixes. Admittedly I wanted more plus frames for Ex Knives but after evaluating this variation throughout this time I've come to realize that I have been able to condition my opponents and bait out armored reversals. They blow up armored wake ups, help Kano close in quickly and allow his B1 to get involved in even more damage. Key word for Ex Knives - STOP

 

[WakeUp DP]

And i see this @Bird Lao X dude has nothing to say in his defense after i put video proof up because theres nothing you can say. So before you make a smart comment like that please know what you're talking about

I just logged back here, idk I'll have to do my own research before commenting anything on the subject.

It might be because some moves are true reversals and some are not. Not sure. MK9 didn't have true reversals which come out 1-2 frames faster than would normally do.

So if Upball was a true reversal and mashed out on upon blocking a -6frames move it would come out at 5frames which will make it possible to punish such -6move on block. But usually you gotta add a frame or two to your punishes due to blockstun.

 

[MsMiharo]

Is the up ball inconsistency due to travel time?

 

[RagingRicans]

Nerf Kano plz

 

[DFC]

Nerf Kano plz

Make every string a high!

 

[countrypistol]

Has NRS indicated any plans to patch the game again? Would it be worth creating a thread that compiles a list of all character bugs, like highs whiffing on crouch blocking opponents, etc, with evidence?

 

[DFC]

Has NRS indicated any plans to patch the game again? Would it be worth creating a thread that compiles a list of all character bugs, like highs whiffing on crouch blocking opponents, etc, with evidence?

There's no way that this iteration is final. Nowhere close. They have the all-but-confirmed Kombat Pack 2. Though it may be a few months before we get another.

 

[imblackjames]

I just want f3,3 choke to connect on hit in commando

 

[countrypistol]

When they released Tremor they didn't patch, as many suspected they would. And the patches so far haven't eliminated all of the bugs many players found. I know it seems likely they'll fix things, or attempt to balance the roster a little more before releasing the next batch of characters, but there are no certainties.

That said, I'm relatively new to TYM, so I haven't seem how patches have played out before (mk9, igau). If I'm proposing a big waste of time, I'll drop it.

 

[Jonnyboyy18]

So you don't think that kanos overhead should have a little bigger hitbox. Because the move will wiff even after a down three. I feel like it should have the same hitbox as like reptiles overhead. What are your thought about this?

 

[Jonnyboyy18]

everyone wants that. While it would be nice, the reason why it's still ok the way it is is because Kano always gets a hard knockdown, which means he can always be right on top of them, plus the overhead string is 0 on block, uninterruptable and special cancelable.

That is very true but I don't think any overhead should whiff after a down three. I don't know any other character that has that same problem. If you know one inform me.

 

[DFC]

B1 hits after d3. D1 is where it whiffs