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Question - Wrestler Must be missing something with Jax

Odyessus

New PSN: XShdwX_Odysseus
OK so I've been using Jax like crazy now. Hours in the lab. He rivals my second most used character by now (Reptile). And still I am unable to win matches against decent and some scrubby players online.

I know the combos, cancels, tick throws the works. It just does not come together online. Offline I'm better, but still not winning matches like I do with SubZ.

Imo Jax is a high difficulty character and sub is more simple (not bashing I love SlubZ). I think it might be because I'm able to use clone to slow things down and limit the reads I have to make worth SZ.

I'm asking the Jax community how,

How do you control the tempo of the fight ?

How do you limit the reads you have to make?

And if you can give me a layout of how your matches typically go?

Much appreciated!
 

Qhris

Noob
Online, I understand your pain, as people with worse frame data can still beat my fastest startups, so controlling the tempo online can be tricky. Use your 11 and f21 into a b3 on hit cancelled into ddp. After a hard knock down I usually (depending on variation) run in immediately, respect any wake-ups, and mixup into a corner carry. Against zoners, I neutral duck and use d1d2 to get in. I don't put too much effort into online because latency eats a lot of my inputs.
 

Odyessus

New PSN: XShdwX_Odysseus
Online, I understand your pain, as people with worse frame data can still beat my fastest startups, so controlling the tempo online can be tricky. Use your 11 and f21 into a b3 on hit cancelled into ddp. After a hard knock down I usually (depending on variation) run in immediately, respect any wake-ups, and mixup into a corner carry. Against zoners, I neutral duck and use d1d2 to get in. I don't put too much effort into online because latency eats a lot of my inputs.
Awesome thanks. I have not been doing hard knockdowns. Might explain why they are able to bail and put distance. I find that range is my enemy. Not that Jax can't Jax it's more along the lines of whiff punishment.
 

Qhris

Noob
I didn't think about it at the time but it doesn't only apply to hard knockdowns. Any time I knock down and have time to run in I usually do.
 
OK so I've been using Jax like crazy now. Hours in the lab. He rivals my second most used character by now (Reptile). And still I am unable to win matches against decent and some scrubby players online.

I know the combos, cancels, tick throws the works. It just does not come together online. Offline I'm better, but still not winning matches like I do with SubZ.

Imo Jax is a high difficulty character and sub is more simple (not bashing I love SlubZ). I think it might be because I'm able to use clone to slow things down and limit the reads I have to make worth SZ.

I'm asking the Jax community how,

How do you control the tempo of the fight ?

How do you limit the reads you have to make?

And if you can give me a layout of how your matches typically go?

Much appreciated!
Jax is a rushdown space control char, YOU control the game even against subzero Dash fist range is godlike and safe, Mb gives u armor to abuse it but watch out for people poking and low profiling it.

With jax u start the game with ur pressure strings I always start : either 11 (+1 on block) into d12 cmd grab (cuz if they get hit trying to poke, they can block the 2 and will eat the cmd grab) OR start with f212 (+1) showing my opponent the full string then 11 or d12 cmd grab /gotcha grab which is -4 or b121 after 11 which is also (+1) .

From here u can be mixing the opponent upclose with 11 ~ command grab / throw cuz it has 7 frame of recovery which is godlike or 111 which ends in a overhead but is -9 cancel into gotcha grab to be safe OR f2 ~ Cmd grab / throw/ f21 ~ cmd grab / throw, Exing the Command grab eats any counter poke attempt. Also dont forget to use 232(high low overhead has gaps) and b3d2 (+2 also has gaps). People will try to poke after 11 or f212 pressure d12 is the perfect answer b121 is also a nice option since its a 11 frames mid. Now that was just ur basic pressure.

Once the opponent respects this and has no meter i literally just go : f21 ~ 11 ~11/ d12 cmd grab/ gotcha grab or 11~b121 ~ b3d2~f21 d12 gotcha grab/ or continue with b12 or 11 after f21. You can do 2 11's on block due to the recovery and speed and its neutral or +1 on block( can't remember ^^).
Srsly i have 11 11 11 infinited the Aracde ladder on Hard multiple times it recovers so fast AND its 6 frames.

After any + string u can also throw out ur safe 50/50's and first end them into gotcha grab to see how ur opponent blocks. B2 overhead dash punch is a safe ingame option select(i dispise OS btw) the overhead smash will only come out on hit.

U should really abuse f3 (9 frame 3 characters range) its fucking amazing and IMO the best whiff punisher in the game u can do f3 OH dash fist run cancel f3 dash punch for some easy damage. The opponent can armor through any cancel from it though but just like with 232 and b3d2 the opponent mostly wont spend their meter for that.

Dash punch is able to punish alot of the "safe" 50/50's in this game due to the travel speed u can punish erron blacks overhead f132 and Thunder God Raidens Lightning strings ( not all of them but the ones that are -12) and also kotal kahns None meterburn swords.

In wrestler ABUSE the tick throws i mean really abuse them while mixing it up with 123 ( here u can do 12 OH smash or 123 OH smash or 12d3 cmd grab ) or 124 cmd grab / gotcha grab to catch them trying to jump out of the tick throw. Going for the command grab after any + string is very effective and Ex version will eat any reversal (buzzsaw spin will beat it ) or poking attempt.

In the corner U dominate with ur armor breaking 123 and 11
And as a final note whenever u wanna punish into OH dashpunch always go for 12 Oh dash punch NOT 11 or f21 cuz to the launching after those strings beeing inconsistent, 12, 23 and b12 will let u run and catch them with a f21 much more reliably.

Hope this helped :)
MB gotcha grab, f4 ~ Mayor muscle/Mayor Pain , Standing 1 and d1 are awesome anti airs
 
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I forgot to mention hes +7 energy wave, this one is tricky cuz people can react to it and just uppercut u btw or poke. So u throw it out as a zoning tool and upclose during d12 poke. You have to condition ur Opponent to respect ur d12 cmd grab / gotcha grab pressure and THEN throw out d1 energy wave or d4 energy wave.
 

Qhris

Noob
Predannok explained it a lot better than I did and he's right. Actually made me reconsider maining wrestler as well. My problem was whiffing the tick throws online was becoming a bigger pain in the ass to me than I liked.

One point though is even though the dash punch is excellent, it can be neutral ducked so just be careful throwing it out raw dog.
 
Predannok explained it a lot better than I did and he's right. Actually made me reconsider maining wrestler as well. My problem was whiffing the tick throws online was becoming a bigger pain in the ass to me than I liked.

One point though is even though the dash punch is excellent, it can be neutral ducked so just be careful throwing it out raw dog.
12D3 cmd grab works on block and on hit same with in the corner 124 cmd grab, but i kno what ya mean i also play Sungod and whiff a grab = dead, But jax got the on hit and on block tick.
 

Odyessus

New PSN: XShdwX_Odysseus
Jax is a rushdown space control char, YOU control the game even against subzero Dash fist range is godlike and safe, Mb gives u armor to abuse it but watch out for people poking and low profiling it.

With jax u start the game with ur pressure strings I always start : either 11 (+1 on block) into d12 cmd grab (cuz if they get hit trying to poke, they can block the 2 and will eat the cmd grab) OR start with f212 (+1) showing my opponent the full string then 11 or d12 cmd grab /gotcha grab which is -4 or b121 after 11 which is also (+1) .

From here u can be mixing the opponent upclose with 11 ~ command grab / throw cuz it has 7 frame of recovery which is godlike or 111 which ends in a overhead but is -9 cancel into gotcha grab to be safe OR f2 ~ Cmd grab / throw/ f21 ~ cmd grab / throw, Exing the Command grab eats any counter poke attempt. Also dont forget to use 232(high low overhead has gaps) and b3d2 (+2 also has gaps). People will try to poke after 11 or f212 pressure d12 is the perfect answer b121 is also a nice option since its a 11 frames mid. Now that was just ur basic pressure.

Once the opponent respects this and has no meter i literally just go : f21 ~ 11 ~11/ d12 cmd grab/ gotcha grab or 11~b121 ~ b3d2~f21 d12 gotcha grab/ or continue with b12 or 11 after f21. You can do 2 11's on block due to the recovery and speed and its neutral or +1 on block( can't remember ^^).
Srsly i have 11 11 11 infinited the Aracde ladder on Hard multiple times it recovers so fast AND its 6 frames.

After and + string u can also throw out ur safe 50/50's and first end them into gotcha grab to see how ur opponent blocks. B2 overhead dash punch is a safe ingame option select(i dispise OS btw) the overhead smash will only come out on hit.

U should really abuse f3 (9 frame 3 characters range) its fucking amazing and IMO the best whiff punisher in the game u can do f3 OH dash fist run cancel f3 dash punch for some easy damage. The opponent can armor through any cancel from it though but just like with 232 and b3d2 the opponent mostly wont spend their meter for that.

Dash punch is able to punish alot of the "safe" 50/50's in this game due to the travel speed u can punish erron blacks overhead f132 and Thunder God Raidens Lightning strings ( not all of them but the ones that are -12) and also kotal kahns None meterburn swords.

In wrestler ABUSE the tick throws i mean really abuse them while mixing it up with 123 ( here u can do 12 OH smash or 123 OH smash or 12d3 cmd grab ) or 124 cmd grab / gotcha grab to catch them trying to jump out of the tick throw. Going for the command grab after any + string is very effective and Ex version will eat any reversal (buzzsaw spin will beat it ) or poking attempt.

In the corner U dominate with ur armor breaking 123 and 11
And as a final note whenever u wanna punish into OH dashpunch always go for 12 Oh dash punch NOT 11 or f21 cuz to the launching after those strings beeing inconsistent, 12, 23 and b12 will let u run and catch them with a f21 much more reliably.

Hope this helped :)
MB gotcha grab, f4 ~ Mayor muscle/Mayor Pain , Standing 1 and d1 are awesome anti airs
This was an awesome read. I watched YouTube video as will but this description really brought it home. While I may not be able to fully execute yet I finally understand it fully. Also saved me time on finding the safe strings.

Bravo my friend. .... bravo
 
This was an awesome read. I watched YouTube video as will but this description really brought it home. While I may not be able to fully execute yet I finally understand it fully. Also saved me time on finding the safe strings.

Bravo my friend. .... bravo
No problem mate
 

nicomatc

victory has defeated uuuu...
Its one thing u guys left out.....the brutally honest reason jax doesn't win is ....he midscreen is ass....no matter the pressure or the tick throws...it will never add up unless u get dat corner, other chars. r pulling off 30% & higher midscreen dmg, metered & meterless & with less execution..
Mr briggs problem is high execution and u can't even hit his combos on da whole cast.....THIS IS DA MAIN REASON U R NOT WINNING.....in all variations
 
Its one thing u guys left out.....the brutally honest reason jax doesn't win is ....he midscreen is ass....no matter the pressure or the tick throws...it will never add up unless u get dat corner, other chars. r pulling off 30% & higher midscreen dmg, metered & meterless & with less execution..
Mr briggs problem is high execution and u can't even hit his combos on da whole cast.....THIS IS DA MAIN REASON U R NOT WINNING.....in all variations
brrrroooooooo U know reptiles midscreen damage or Unbreakable subzero who wont get past 27% midscreen. Jax gets 38% midscreen on males the execution is tough but muscle memory and u get it 95% of the time and 29% damage on females is still miles better than the above mentioned. And the 13% cmd grab ull get for free in a match i do atleast 3 tick throws thats already 39% Free damage and if my opponent isn't tech rolling or is delaying wakeup i get even more free damage with Mb Ground pound (Pumped up gets it regardless of techroll).
 

nicomatc

victory has defeated uuuu...
I'm just pointing out the problem, I've have only seen hb tyrant hit dem shits consistently but dats offline, but no one can hit dat shit online......which strengthens my point, I'm only speakin on jax, reptile has noxious tho n works on all chars.
 
I'm just pointing out the problem, I've have only seen hb tyrant hit dem shits consistently but dats offline, but no one can hit dat shit online......which strengthens my point, I'm only speakin on jax, reptile has noxious tho n works on all chars.
with gud connection its not that hard i get it 85% the other times i was just too slow. Also jupiter does the shit offline and online
.
 

nicomatc

victory has defeated uuuu...
Nahhh bro, i got hands too, fightstick or pad, myself bout 6/10 i can hit it online but still da variables r too high, u need good connection good execution n to fight a male char., other dat char. dat don't do dmg got crazy set ups plus his wake up is weak also...
 
Nahhh bro, i got hands too, fightstick or pad, myself bout 6/10 i can hit it online but still da variables r too high, u need good connection good execution n to fight a male char., other dat char. dat don't do dmg got crazy set ups plus his wake up is weak also...
corner 50-55% damage, one combo = in the corner, weak wakeup really? MB dash punch, MB overhead if u wanna take the risk and get ur combo , MB gotcha grab, MB Quad grab, MB mayor muscle(which becomes safe from max distance if he doesn't land on the other side after the second hit) how is that weak wakeup i play quan chi I KNOW what weak wakeup means.
 

nicomatc

victory has defeated uuuu...
Bro, who do u fight, no one stays close to jax after a KD, only noobs, all competent players crouch and bait._.
 

Qhris

Noob
Jax's mid-screen only becomes a problem for me in laggy matches. And when that happens, I just leave out the 12 and do a MB Overhead Dash Punch as a block reversal to punish and I end up hitting it. Once you get the timing down you can do it blindfolded.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
Mid screen 40% with wrestler with iut junp on. U can close distance with ease if they block EW. U can run and f3 safely. It may be armoured trought ( not sure) but beside that they cant do nothing but block. If thy jump they get hit. If u u time it incorrectly the eorst case scenario is traiding blows.

Edit : And this is from fullscreen
 
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Death

Noob
I'm just pointing out the problem, I've have only seen hb tyrant hit dem shits consistently but dats offline, but no one can hit dat shit online......which strengthens my point, I'm only speakin on jax, reptile has noxious tho n works on all chars.
Weak wake ups? He has some of the best wake ups in the game!

Jax isn't really missing anything. He is obviously top 10 but Jax players 100% need to have solid footsies and fundamentals to make the character work in the neutral. The game is just too young to develop that right now. He reminds me a lot of MK9 Cage when it comes to the Neutral.

Like the above poster said EX OH dash punch is really inconsistent and F2 whiffs randomly sometimes to. It would be nice if that was adjusted somehow.
 
Mid screen 42% with wrestler. U can close distance with ease if they block EW. U can run and f3 safely. It may be armoured trought ( not sure) but beside that they cant do nothing but block. If thy jump they get hit. If u u time it incorrectly the eorst case scenario is traiding blows.

Edit : And this is almost from fullscreen
@nicomatc
 

nicomatc

victory has defeated uuuu...
I truly appreciate this conservation, i'm very aware of wat he can do on paper but da gameplay is totally diff., his dmg potential is not consistent , like previous comment his shit really does randomly whiff, now u done spent a whole bar off a chance or if u fight a female u sacrifice a bar for only 29 %, then maybe another bar for 10-13% on pseudo gp otg...brothers I've main jax since inception, I will never give up on him just pointing out da problems