TYM Kommunity Project: An Open Letter to NRS Concerning Netplay

[Youphemism]

They're not called Netherrealm Software, it's Netherrealm Studios.

 

[Hype Dragon]

as a player from soul calibur 5, people with 4-5 bars are almost always feel like a offline battle even 3 bars sometimes feel like offline battles. But some people just lag switch. As i played mkx like it said, very shitty netcode, It annoyed me to play some people that jump a lot because it is hard to anti-air and drop combos and some scrubs take an advantage over the lag delay to do some really annoying shit to you. I hope this petition will solve the online issues because I am sick of tired dealing with bull shit in online battles that should not happen if it was in a offline battles.

 

[tatterbug4]

I'm gonna keep complaining till they fix it because I can't play online 90% of the time.

I've spent like 30 hours in the past week playing practice I'm sure of it.

 

[tatterbug4]

Do you guys honestly think they are unaware of the netcode problem? They know it's a problem. I am not game designer or anything but I am pretty sure this isn't just a simple fix.

You may have to re write the entire game to resolve this.

Yeah but this isn't 100% net code issues this is also informing them of the players that can't play the game because LSoD.

 

[Colares]

Maybe it's more on the backend like a contract agreement or something they have little or no control over. I agree for the last 4 years of NRS games the netcode has been awful. We are all aware, They are aware.

People compare this netcode to KI, when you should not be doing that. KI is a Microsoft game, used by MS servers (GODLIKE SERVERS) WB Games may not have that kind of money yet to get those "top notch" servers, we do not know that.

It's a business, this game has hopefully made WB Games / NRS tons of money to solve this solution next time around. Only time will tell.

The only server that is used is for matchmaking/rooms from there is pure peer to peer in any fighting game.

 

[Vilén]

I'll eat a hat on YouTube if whatever game NRS puts out next has passable netcode in any capacity.

I'm not jumping on this "FOURTH time's the charm" train. Their netcode doesn't have to be good. The game sells and the DLC sells regardless of the netcode. Why would they put time and effort and money into not being the village idiot on this when it's perfectly profitable to not give one shit and remind everyone "it's your connection bro" whenever they do actually deign to speak on it publicly?

 

[Me1andMe2]

Do you guys honestly think they are unaware of the netcode problem? They know it's a problem. I am not game designer or anything but I am pretty sure this isn't just a simple fix.

You may have to re write the entire game to resolve this.

They know oh yes they know buuuut do they know how important it is to us? If we say nothing they might be like "well fuckt it we know its not the best but some complain but thats normal no reason to change". There is no reason not to voice concerns.

i will leave this up for discussion. at least it shows dice realizes problems and works on solution, which we havent seen from nrs yet.

edit: i changed the paragrah about dice a bit.

How do you like this (I think yours sounds too aggresiv:

We know that changing network code after launch is a difficult task however other games have proven that it is not impossible and that it is much appreciated by the player base which can play an important part in this process. If we take DICE for example they have acknowledged netplay issues in Battlefield 4 and are working on new solutions right now. They do constant testing together with the community to improve their game including the online experience and server performance.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

My letter.

"fix your netcode or say goodbye to the eyebrows"

 

[darthbrooks]

I've done network coding on games in school (computer science major) and from what little I've gathered, I'm guessing the "netcode" is too embedded to change to any greater extent at this point. It's a shame they didn't prioritize the online features of the game like they did with Killer Instinct. I'm sure they'll skimp on the online experience next time around too, seeing how well this game sold. I will definitely approach NRS games with caution from here on and not dive in at the deep end like I did with MKX. Sucks that I love the game but can't stand the online experience.

 

[darthbrooks]

People compare this netcode to KI, when you should not be doing that. KI is a Microsoft game, used by MS servers (GODLIKE SERVERS) WB Games may not have that kind of money yet to get those "top notch" servers, we do not know that.

I'm fairly certain that it's not a server thing. MKX and KI are most likely peer-to-peer as it wouldn't make sense to use a server between only two players. Unless you are talking about the "Connecting..."-screen staying on forever, that's definitely weird serverside handshaking.

If KI truly went the GGPOish route, it's using a prediction based solution for online matches where the game is run locally on each players console independent of eachother, regularly syncs the gamestate between them and rolls back to the last moment they were in sync if they go out of sync with eachother (very simplified). I'm just guessing here, but the input delay in MKX is probably due to the game needing a certain ping dependent time buffer to correctly collect both players inputs before deciding what the hell happens next.

I'm sure this has been mentioned already somewhere on the forum, in which case I apologize for bringing it up again.

 

[kabelfritz]

We know that changing network code after launch is a difficult task however other games have proven that it is not impossible and that it is much appreciated by the player base which can play an important part in this process. If we take DICE for example they have acknowledged netplay issues in Battlefield 4 and are working on new solutions right now. They do constant testing together with the community to improve their game including the online experience and server performance.

gonna use that

 

[kabelfritz]

changed the following passage:

NRS’ image is suffering from the whole issue. People are unsatisfied that there is no communication about the problem or even admittance of it. Some are under the impression that NRS/WB do not invest enough resources into delivering the best possible experience for their paying customers

@Braindead
@I GOT HANDS

 

[Vilén]

I've done network coding on games in school (computer science major) and from what little I've gathered, I'm guessing the "netcode" is too embedded to change to any greater extent at this point. It's a shame they didn't prioritize the online features of the game like they did with Killer Instinct. I'm sure they'll skimp on the online experience next time around too, seeing how well this game sold. I will definitely approach NRS games with caution from here on and not dive in at the deep end like I did with MKX. Sucks that I love the game but can't stand the online experience.

This. Even though Injustice wasn't really for me overall, everything about my experience with online play with that title convinced me that they'd have it figured out with MKX. So I practically tripped over myself preordering the game with the Kombat Pack, and the netcode is two steps BACKWARDS from Injustice.

It's not even that I'm going to be cautious. I'm actually preparing to give BlazBlue another chance while I wait for Xrd to bring my characters back.

BLAZBLUE, NRS. Blazfuckinblue. This is what you've done to me.

 

[jbthrash]

They seriously need to fix this and I think comparing the online to their competition is very appropriate and if we don't say anything then it practically means we're happy with it, and I think this is a good way show how we feel.
I think another possibility is kickstarter. I would personally give them more money to fix this problem.

 

[Tim Static]

Really nice written. But before you put TYM logos somewhere make sure that the one(s) who own the logo agree to put their "brand" on that letter. Just my 2 cent.
@Tim Static ?!

thx, and thats why im asking !

I'm fine with it, tho asking the person who owns this website is who should be asked. @STORMS

BTW the issues are known at NRS, so i think the best thing I think you'll get out of this is maybe an explanation from NRS, not any fixes. Just FYI

 

[WidowPuppy]

They seriously need to fix this and I think comparing the online to their competition is very appropriate and if we don't say anything then it practically means we're happy with it, and I think this is a good way show how we feel.
I think another possibility is kickstarter. I would personally give them more money to fix this problem.

Not downing what you are saying, but just to shed a little light...

What competition? They've chosen wisely a window of release for the initial game and all planned DLC that won't coincide with any other possible competition. No blockbuster fighting game has been released for some time, and the next one... SFV, is not scheduled until next year. This has all been thought out well in advance. Do you actually believe that they would of released MKX in this condition at the same time as SFV, hell no!

And... A kickstarter for a BILLION dollar company that owns one of the most successful franchise fighting games in history, and who's lead designer constantly posts things like this on Twitter...

Ed Boon ‏@noobde Jul 24
Top selling game for the 1st half of the year. Not bad for a 20+ year old franchise! http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/top-10-selling-video-games-2015-so-far/…

Hell no! ...again

 

[tigerija]

I would suggest you find someone to write this more professionally and less like a rant.
Maybe it doesnt matter, its just my opinon.

For example;
"The community has put together a list of other (fighting) games, which do better in the online department than MKX and the other NRS Games and might work as a benchmark."

I would not write this like that because its very negative. There are different ways of saying.
But maybe it doesnt matter.

All in all, many people have problems with MKX online quality. So I am supporting this thread. It needs to be acknowledged as an issue from NRS's side and some actions should be taken.

Fool me once, fool me twice, but now you fooled me three times. So maybe you can't fool me four times.

 

[Vilén]

Not downing what you are saying, but just to shed a little light...

What competition? They've chosen wisely a window of release for the initial game and all planned DLC that won't coincide with any other possible competition. No blockbuster fighting game has been released for some time, and the next one... SFV, is not scheduled until next year. This has all been thought out well in advance. Do you actually believe that they would of released MKX in this condition at the same time as SFV, hell no!

And... A kickstarter for a BILLION dollar company that owns one of the most successful franchise fighting games in history, and who's lead designer constantly posts things like this on Twitter...

Ed Boon ‏@noobde Jul 24
Top selling game for the 1st half of the year. Not bad for a 20+ year old franchise! http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/top-10-selling-video-games-2015-so-far/…

Hell no! ...again

His suggestion just goes to prove a point. I mean, sure this is an effort fronted by a billion dollar company but he didn't even think of it like that because judging by the final product you'd swear they bankrolled this with backalley handjobs.

 

[Immortal Kombat]

We should just tag Tyler in this. He is the community specialist. If he's on top of his job he should reply and forward the message. KI people would

 

[Hype Dragon]

@tylerlansdown

 

[Hype Dragon]

We should just tag Tyler in this. He is the community specialist. If he's on top of his job he should reply and forward the message. KI people would

i will tag him

 

[kabelfritz]

I would suggest you find someone to write this more professionally and less like a rant.
Maybe it doesnt matter, its just my opinon.

For example;
"The community has put together a list of other (fighting) games, which do better in the online department than MKX and the other NRS Games and might work as a benchmark."

I would not write this like that because its very negative. There are different ways of saying.
But maybe it doesnt matter.

All in all, many people have problems with MKX online quality. So I am supporting this thread. It needs to be acknowledged as an issue from NRS's side and some actions should be taken.

Fool me once, fool me twice, but now you fooled me three times. So maybe you can't fool me four times.

this is not negative, its a fact. of course the letter should have a respectful undertone, but im not gonna pamper nrs. there should be some sharpness to it.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I'm fine with it, tho asking the person who owns this website is who should be asked. @STORMS

BTW the issues are known at NRS, so i think the best thing I think you'll get out of this is maybe an explanation from NRS, not any fixes. Just FYI

do you mean that they don't intend on fixing these problems?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@tylerlansdown

tyler won't answer thats above his pay grade, he is the picture front man, not the man capable of answering! not even ed answers without a boards approval on matters that meet their public image as a company as a whole... im sure WB would be involved!

 

[MadeOfMetal]

So thanks for your feedback from the other thread, here is the letter. it is subject to discussion.

some things ahead:

- id like some cool visuals on top, but i cant think of any, and the tym logo at the bottom.
- i wanna spread it via Facebook and twitter, but im not sure if just as text or as a petition. a petition is a stronger statement, but people might be more hesistant to sign it than just like, share and retweet. it worked for tremor though, if we do it, it should be on the same platform as the tremor petition, as it seems to reach a good audience. what platform was it, does anyone have an account?

@9.95

edit: i need answers for the red stuff guys. can anyone make a good visual design for the letter and spread the petition?

Spoiler: The Letter

From: The Test your Might community
To: Netherrealm Studios/Warner Bros. Games

An open letter concerning Mortal Kombat X netplay

Dear Netherrealm Studios and Warner Bros. Games employees!

We as Testyourmight.com, the biggest online community for competitive play of NRS games, hereby want to voice our opinion on the quality of the netplay in MKX. But first of all, let’s make clear that we really enjoy the game and appreciate a lot of things you have done in the last years. There is the step back to 2D in MK9, the great training mode in injustice and the support of the tournament scene for MKX, as well as balance fixes throughout these games. These things have been achieved in exchange with the community, and we want to take this cooperation a step further. So we will give you our collected feedback on the current online experience here, to help getting NRS games’ netplay experience to the level of other current fighting games.

1. Online issues:

• Connecting and matchmaking: Some people can’t connect to online at all, some only on rare occasions. The overall experience has a feeling of 5 frames of lag at least. The quality varies for users without any relation to their connection speed. Some people claim to have a worse online experience than in MK9 or injustice.
• Gameplay: Anything that requires strict timing or quick reacting often happens to not work consistently or at all. This includes: Counterpokes; block on reaction; block of quick overhead/low sequences; block of multiple quick pokes; combo links; punishing blocked attacks; frametraps; footsies; wakeup attacks; throw techs; anti-air-attacks; jump-in punches; reversals. Also Inputs can be “eaten up” by lag. For example: Ducking, then back 2 comes out as down 2; a string cancel like 33 ~ down forward 4 comes out as 3 forward 4. All of these things are an essential part of the gameplay and are massively hindered by the delay.

1. Follow-up issues:

• Many players already have dropped the game because of the frustrating online experience. Aside from limiting the fun, they don’t see the laggy environment as proper training ground for offline events. This discourages especially people with no offline scene close by to attend bigger offline events at all. For many the netplay is also not consistent enough to become competitive online.
• The credibility of the ESL events suffers from the above point, for players as well as viewers.
• People opted not to buy the DLC because of their poor online experience
• The online Faction mode has been advertised as big draw for MKX but the online gameplay doesn't make it worthwhile to participate
• NRS’ image is suffering from the whole issue. People are unsatisfied that there is no communication about the problem or even admittance of it. Some are under the impression that NRS/WB do not invest enough resources into delivering the best possible experience for their paying customers.

1. Examples for good online experiences:

• The community has put together a list of other (fighting) games, which do better in the online department than MKX and the other NRS Games and might work as a benchmark.
  Killer Instinct is usually considered the best online experience nowadays, making the game feel like offline for connections all around the world. Other examples for good netplay are: Skullgirls; Soul Calibur V; Tekken Tag Tournament 2; Virtua Fighter 5 FS; Blazblue; Ultra Street Fighter 4; Driveclub; Titanfall. All of these are widely considered ahead of Mortal Kombat X, even though they are older and some of them had a lower budget.

1. Ideas for improvement:

• It is a widely spread opinion throughout the community, that rollback netcode delivers better netplay than input delay due to the immediate reaction to your inputs on your screen. The possible choppyness of the picture can be avoided by a self-adjustable number of delay frames. People report they have the best results playing on rollback with 2-4 frames of delay setting.
• We know that changing network code after launch is a difficult task however other games have proven that it is not impossible and that it is much appreciated by the player base which can play an important part in this process. If we take DICE for example they have acknowledged netplay issues in Battlefield 4 and are working on new solutions right now. They do constant testing together with the community to improve their game including the online experience and server performance.
• To improve the current experience without touching the netcode, the game could show ping and WIFI-connections
• The next NRS game should have an online beta

We hope we can get in touch with you about the netplay issue as soon as possible. It harms both NRS and the players, the online as well as the offline community. We are looking forward to improvement, so we can enjoy our favourite games just as well online and strengthen the competitive NRS scene.

Regards, the TYM community

(TYM Logo)

it looks great to me, i say do it now, i really hope this gets fixed for MKX,, since MKX will last for a very long time locally, i mean they have years, why couldnt they fix it in time...? then there could be several skin packs to unlock online as well as additional DLC money to be made, but if they continue this only the tourny players will buy it, whats left of them, with all the fighters coming out with online capability, i mean noone would have to leave there house to win 10k +. what beats that.. some days people don't want to pack up and travel