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What is Net-Code and how can we help fix it?

WidowPuppy

Attack pekingese
i always respect your posts, but i have to ask, what is it that you think it is?
since its a Peer 2 Peer game, and the nodes are the servers, since in a cycle we only request data at a small rate, what other than the netcode could cause this 4 second lag.. other than the Layer between the Host and the Client which is the Netcode?

i am genuinely curious to here your reply.
Lowest quality servers that money can buy, no maintenance or restarts ever. And... Them not being evenly distributed throughout certain locations, leading to certain people saying "Online's fine, step up your internet."... and other people saying, "It's definitely not fine for me."
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Aight, this my last one on the subject. I remember now why I gave this shit up;

It's ok to ask about the numbers. My point is still that the people on TYM can't be the only ones dissapointed with the online functionality. There is most likely a bunch of people not happy with online.
I never said discontent doesn't exist. I said there's not as many of them as you think. I said there are proper channels for registering discontent and bitchthreads ain't one of them. Nobody listened, they just said I can't believe you're downplaying our struggle Tru. We are legion. NRS doesn't care about net people. Meanwhile, I didn't see any interviews or tweets from EVO by anybody who saw Boon and asked him how the netcode is going. I saw some idiots plan to a shame chant on the biggest night of MKX's life. Did they all cancel their flights when that plan fizzled? Why didn't one of them think to just ask the man and get back to us?

I don't need to be a network engineer to want a status update. It could very well be "This is taking longer than we thought.", "Whatever complicated problems.", anything really. Besides a one time statement of "we're working on it." After it was released and while they market DLC.
I hear you say that, and I'm sure you believe that. But once the novelty wears off, it does not help anymore. Ask the Skullgirls community. Oh wait, there isn't one anymore. They're all tired of empty promises and playing other games while waiting for the DLC characters they paid for two years ago to happen.

Never said any advertisement should stop. But any other useful and relevant communication has stopped. Nothing is ever said on anyone's problems with netcode.
Nothing is ever said on anyone's problems, not balance, not netplay, not story, not dlc, not costumes, not music. That's business. You think its a coincidence that guys like Combofiend and 16Bit go corporate and suddenly vanish from all their online haunts? Its not cause their workload is so massive they can't find time to post a tweet or make a private message. Its because they don't want to get fired. Its because whatever you do, even if its something "fun" like making video games, there's some corporate bullshit keeping you from doing it the way you might wanna do it if you wanna keep getting paid.

Nobody (not even a creative director like Boon) can just say "the reason our product is inferior (to our rivals product) is x", they can't say "it will take us # months to make our netplay work (the way our competitors does already)" they can't even say "Our netplay sucks (because we don't care what you think)" because true or not all of those things will wind up on Kotaku's front page and revenue will fucking go down. Revenue that keeps families fed and gets future games made. You really want Boon to post some shit on twitter about how they could've done GGPO for Injustice or one more patch for MK9 or Five costumes per character in MKX but decided it wasn't cost effective so Harada or Ono can get it printed out on some t-shirts and have booth babes hand them out at NRS' E3 Booth with Got you now, bitch flavored ice cream?

My point about pointing out PC was that out of all the problems, it's the first time I've seen an improvement in how things are handled. The one thing they did wrong was wait until mid day of the release date to say it will be coming out later. If something unexpected came up then that should be said.
Again, the most important part has been ignored. MKX PC and MKX console might as well be different games. Different budgets pay for them. Different staffs work on them. Different communities play them. Different patches fix them. WB will be digging themselves out of the hole they made with the PC community for months to come. Their game didn't even work until a month ago. Not "was bad", not "had some issues sometimes", didn't even fucking work. When NRS breaks their netplay as bad as HVS broke their entire fucking game, you might see that kind of care go into a future patch.

Sad truth? End of the day, PC release still got dicked on a DLC character no other platform did. They wrapped it in pretty words, made a lot of people feel better, but they still fucking failed to achieve their goals. Tremor probably never was going to be released day one and it took half a day for someone to come up with the brilliant verbage that sold you all the bill of goods. That may sound paranoid, but with a release that hasn't done a single fucking thing right in five months, I'm ready to believe.
 
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WidowPuppy

Attack pekingese
I asked pages ago just what Ed Boon is supposed to say and no one replied, just turned on me for asking. 10 really defensive really judgy replies later, still no word on what you actually want him to say.
Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 1h1 hour ago
We are aware that users are having issues logging in, and are working to address the problem. We will provide updates as soon as possible.

Yoshinori Ono ‏@Yoshi_OnoChin 22m22 minutes ago
We apologize that SFV beta cant connect to server. We're doing our best for recovering situation. Could you wait our next information. thx.

Yoshinori Ono ‏@Yoshi_OnoChin 5m5 minutes ago
I apologize that SFV can't connect to server so long.Could you give us a little more time for finding key to solving a problem. thx.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 3m3 minutes ago
We appreciate your patience, and thank you for helping us test our servers.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 20m20 minutes ago
We’re continuing to monitor the situation and hope to have everything resolved soon. Thanks for your patience.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 4m4 minutes ago
Many of you may be able to log into the training mode portion of the game now. We are still working to resolve the matchmaking issues.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 42m42 minutes ago
We are still working on a fix, and are currently resetting the server and implementing changes each half hour. Thanks for your patience.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 18m18 minutes ago
We are currently able to authenticate user logins but are working on a fix for the matchmaking issues. Thanks for your patience.

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 9m9 minutes ago
Our servers will be undergoing scheduled maintenance starting from now until 1AM PDT.

Ed Boon ‏@noobde 31m31 minutes ago
Top selling game for the 1st half of the year. Not bad for a 20+ year old franchise! :) http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/top-10-selling-video-games-2015-so-far/…

Yeah, we get it Ed...

Street Fighter ‏@StreetFighter 7h7 hours ago
We will be extending the Street Fighter V beta’s scheduled maintenance by 2 hours (3am PST). We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yoshinori Ono ‏@Yoshi_OnoChin 3h3 hours ago
I'm very apologetic towards players.I'm sorry that I don't have enough ability about SFV beta.Plz give me chance for re-scheduling SFV beta.



More communication in one hour with their fanbase/supporters regarding a technical issue than NRS since MKX's release.

You really want Boon to post some shit on twitter about how they could've done GGPO for Injustice or one more patch for MK9 or Five costumes per character in MKX but decided it wasn't cost effective so Harada or Ono can get it printed out on some t-shirts and have booth babes hand them out at NRS' E3 Booth with Got you now, bitch flavored ice cream?
Awe shit Tru... Tell Ed to get the T-Shirts ready, we got these bitches now! Mmmm, butter pecan.
 
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buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Aight, this my last one on the subject. I remember now why I gave this shit up;



I never said discontent doesn't exist. I said there's not as many of them as you think. I said there are proper channels for registering discontent and bitchthreads ain't one of them. Nobody listened, they just said I can't believe you're downplaying our struggle Tru. We are legion. NRS doesn't care about net people. Meanwhile, I didn't see any interviews or tweets from EVO by anybody who saw Boon and asked him how the netcode is going. I saw some idiots plan to a shame chant on the biggest night of MKX's life. Did they all cancel their flights when that plan fizzled? Why didn't one of them think to just ask the man and get back to us?



I hear you say that, and I'm sure you believe that. But once the novelty wears off, it does not help anymore. Ask the Skullgirls community. Oh wait, there isn't one anymore. They're all tired of empty promises and playing other games while waiting for the DLC characters they paid for two years ago to happen.



Nothing is ever said on anyone's problems, not balance, not netplay, not story, not dlc, not costumes, not music. That's business. You think its a coincidence that guys like Combofiend and 16Bit go corporate and suddenly vanish from all their online haunts? Its not cause their workload is so massive they can't find time to post a tweet or make a private message. Its because they don't want to get fired. Its because whatever you do, even if its something "fun" like making video games, there's some corporate bullshit keeping you from doing it the way you might wanna do it if you wanna keep getting paid.

Nobody (not even a creative director like Boon) can just say "the reason our product is inferior (to our rivals product) is x", they can't say "it will take us # months to make our netplay work (the way our competitors does already)" they can't even say "Our netplay sucks (because we don't care what you think)" because true or not all of those things will wind up on Kotaku's front page and revenue will fucking go down. Revenue that keeps families fed and gets future games made. You really want Boon to post some shit on twitter about how they could've done GGPO for Injustice or one more patch for MK9 or Five costumes per character in MKX but decided it wasn't cost effective so Harada or Ono can get it printed out on some t-shirts and have booth babes hand them out at NRS' E3 Booth with Got you now, bitch flavored ice cream?



Again, the most important part has been ignored. MKX PC and MKX console might as well be different games. Different budgets pay for them. Different staffs work on them. Different communities play them. Different patches fix them. WB will be digging themselves out of the hole they made with the PC community for months to come. Their game didn't even work until a month ago. Not "was bad", not "had some issues sometimes", didn't even fucking work. When NRS breaks their netplay as bad as HVS broke their entire fucking game, you might see that kind of care go into a future patch.

Sad truth? End of the day, PC release still got dicked on a DLC character no one else did. They wrapped it in pretty words, made a lot of people feel better, but they still fucking failed to achieve their goals. Tremor probably never was going to be released day one and it took half a day for someone to come up with the brilliant verbage that sold you all the bill of goods. That may sound paranoid, but with a release that hasn't done a single fucking thing right in five months, I'm ready to believe.
Most of this is now just different viewpoints so i'm fine with ending this conversation.

I don't know about what other people have been saying to your responses so I won't comment on that. As for the EVO chant that was overall agreed to be a bad idea and even a better idea came out of it. As for if anyone at EVO did anything, I barely know this community. I played injustice a bit and MKx is the first time I'm actually frequenting these forums. If I knew some top players or something I would definitely be asking someone to try and talk to Boon. Or anyone really. As for why it seems nothing is happening is because I don't think anyone of any real power has done anything. I don't know if the people I've talked to in these threads tourneys - I plan on it soon - but the community as a whole really only seems to come together to ask for buffs and nerfs in the next patch. Take the OSes for example. No official statement on them ever and everyone has just gone "oh well". Or the input shortcuts literally stopping some characters from doing their strings. still an "oh well".

I don't get the Skullgirls comment. There is definitely a SG community that is actually quick to help and try to grow their scene. As for the wait on DLC that's all been finished and the final version is probably out right now. Lab0 is on to making another game and I'm looking forward to it. I really don't understand what that meant. Mike_Z and co. are actually very communicative on a ton of things. Heck the endless beta Mike tested out tweaks to combo systems and superjumps and fan feedback had a hand in that.

There are plenty of instances where a developer admits to something being wrong. They don't phrase it as "That guy's stuff is better". More like "we felt we missed the mark with [this new feature] or how we [did balance here]. I think I can find somewhere where it's stated that they (or at least Ed Boon) wants online functionality to be even better. Plenty of devs have been able to show that they want something to be better and improve it as time goes on. If someone still sees something wrong with that well that's them being behind the times. Which I'm sure there are corporates like that.

That's pretty much my point. MKx on console is ok in some places so nothing is really being shown as improving. MKx on PC was so bad there is no way to do anything but improve. But NRS still have places where they could improve it's just not being shown that they are improving. btw rumor has it that HVS is getting dumped for a different port developer. So it could very well be that it's someone new on the job.

EDIT: @WidowPuppy has just posted proof of a dev communicating with it's fans. SFV is probably the most hyped fighting game right now and it's just a demo. Problems occur and people simply say sorry its fucking up. We're trying to fix it. Now this isn't as big of a problem but I know Capcom has a great track record of bringing up hot topics around street fighter and answering them. It's one of the reasons I'd actually be ok with Preordering SFV. They are making great public notions for improved netcode. Pointing out some of the flaws of SF4 and trying to stay away and/or fix that. They put out patch notes BEFORE the actual patch. I actually don't know if NRS is even going to do that last one. Capcom overall handles Street Fighter better than NRS handles MKx imo.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
its shit like this that pisses me off.... went to my friends he just got MKX on XB1..... he lives 2 streets down the road..... we live in a forest, very outwoods.....

here is the part that makes me rip out my hair..... i know XB1 mortal kombat x is far from playable online from what i have herd from many....

but he has the same internet as i do... same speeds and everything, i use wired, he uses wifi... i have a PS4.... his internet is fine... we have the same company.... why is my shit fucked up when i have a neighbor with the same ISP, same location, same Internet specs, but his is worse cuz he uses WIFI... and i get the short end of the stick?

this is absolute bullshit.... im selling my Fangbook and getting an XB1 and then trying it out at my house...(i want an XB1, the controllers) then im calling my ISP and demanding them to open ports and everything they can do to give me the same experience as my neighbor has!

and then im sure ill still have the problems.... just thought some would like to know, i found one of those few that connect perfectly.... it was like playing in practice mode solo... while on his MKX online... it was sickening..... i was like fool, i have 4 second lag.... jump in kick only to have the kick register after landing.... my shit is horrible, and it seems to get worse every patch they release, and some how the ping bars get better... i wonder how that happened...LMFAO@NRS
 

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
Nothing will be done, ever. Even a petition with 100000000 sigs won't do anything, they don't care.

I'm pretty disillusioned with MXK, barely played in the last month and have almost no motivation any more. 100% not giving a penny more to NRS in the future.

However too much drama in the forum to leave TYM.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Nothing will be done, ever. Even a petition with 100000000 sigs won't do anything, they don't care.

I'm pretty disillusioned with MXK, barely played in the last month and have almost no motivation any more. 100% not giving a penny more to NRS in the future.

However too much drama in the forum to leave TYM.
i love MKX as a game in general but Online is unacceptable!

i have a blast playing local, with friends, but its not satisfying enough, i need online!

so many other games have come out of worse situations on top... wish NRS would
 

Iced_Taz

Characters loyalist :)
It's not like they don't care.

THEY CAN'T FIX IT. NRS are not Namco and their net code is much worse than Tekken Tag 2 net code.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Lowest quality servers that money can buy, no maintenance or restarts ever. And... Them not being evenly distributed throughout certain locations, leading to certain people saying "Online's fine, step up your internet."... and other people saying, "It's definitely not fine for me."
im at a loss,

every time i think i have it figured out, another problem arises that makes me feel i don't, example i bieleve servers and Netcode is the issue...

but this situation may prove otherwise,, not confirmed yet but will get back to you on this!

its shit like this that pisses me off.... went to my friends he just got MKX on XB1..... he lives 2 streets down the road..... we live in a forest, very outwoods.....

here is the part that makes me rip out my hair..... i know XB1 mortal kombat x is far from playable online from what i have herd from many....

but he has the same internet as i do... same speeds and everything, i use wired, he uses wifi... i have a PS4.... his internet is fine... we have the same company.... why is my shit fucked up when i have a neighbor with the same ISP, same location, same Internet specs, but his is worse cuz he uses WIFI... and i get the short end of the stick?

this is absolute bullshit.... im selling my Fangbook and getting an XB1 and then trying it out at my house...(i want an XB1, the controllers) then im calling my ISP and demanding them to open ports and everything they can do to give me the same experience as my neighbor has!

and then im sure ill still have the problems.... just thought some would like to know, i found one of those few that connect perfectly.... it was like playing in practice mode solo... while on his MKX online... it was sickening..... i was like fool, i have 4 second lag.... jump in kick only to have the kick register after landing.... my shit is horrible, and it seems to get worse every patch they release, and some how the ping bars get better... i wonder how that happened...LMFAO@NRS

like i said not sure untill i try XB1 at my house, but that would kinda bunk my server idea since he lives right next to me, and has same ISP and so on!

im getting my own XB1 to test over and over for better results!

my PS4 MKX is still shit.... and BTW every other game works fine on my internet... its almost like someone is behind a switch saying, this user doesnt need good connection to mkx,, flick, lets give this one perfect connection. i feel robbed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Marbledecker

BUTTONS
I asked how many people are ACTUALLY fucked by unplayable online (Xbone bug or otherwise)? You say thousands. Did they all log trouble tickets with MS/WB? Post reviews on Amazon? Comment on facebook? How bout even trending a hashtag? What has your outcry done to help?
"Thousands" was so obviously an arbitrary number, though given sales figures not infeasible; granted, it's a supposition. Do you realize that you're asking me to scour the internet and tally for an accurate number? Do you realize how much time that would take? This thread would be back-page by 3 months or more by the time I came up with a number.

So I'll adjust my number. Let's say uhh... 736 people are dissatisfied. Does that work for you? Or would you like me to go door-to-door and take a census?

corporate shill
Yo, I never went there. Take it easy friend.
 
dear NRS
pls i'm working as an network engineer for over 15 years now. I would even buy money to you if you allow me to solve the problem.
Sincerly Philipp Schweiger
 

WidowPuppy

Attack pekingese
its shit like this that pisses me off.... went to my friends he just got MKX on XB1..... he lives 2 streets down the road..... we live in a forest, very outwoods.....

here is the part that makes me rip out my hair..... i know XB1 mortal kombat x is far from playable online from what i have herd from many....

but he has the same internet as i do... same speeds and everything, i use wired, he uses wifi... i have a PS4.... his internet is fine... we have the same company.... why is my shit fucked up when i have a neighbor with the same ISP, same location, same Internet specs, but his is worse cuz he uses WIFI... and i get the short end of the stick?

this is absolute bullshit.... im selling my Fangbook and getting an XB1 and then trying it out at my house...(i want an XB1, the controllers) then im calling my ISP and demanding them to open ports and everything they can do to give me the same experience as my neighbor has!

and then im sure ill still have the problems.... just thought some would like to know, i found one of those few that connect perfectly.... it was like playing in practice mode solo... while on his MKX online... it was sickening..... i was like fool, i have 4 second lag.... jump in kick only to have the kick register after landing.... my shit is horrible, and it seems to get worse every patch they release, and some how the ping bars get better... i wonder how that happened...LMFAO@NRS
Welcome to my world. Other people can play the game [not fine but] at it's best. And I cannot even fucking move in any match, on PS4 or XBOX ONE. Full screen projectiles are almost impossible to react to with my usual input delay, while my opponents can counter poke, anti air, block accordingly, fucking react... I've never felt so ripped off in my entire life.
 

JayP

Noob
Why is my connection and lantency for mkx on xbone worse than for pc??? Both are hard wired in. This doesnt make any sense... When I play on PC there is very minimal delay and I can play/react most of the time...however, on Xbone, I can't react, I can't block, I drop combos, ect ect... So much input delay. Its extremely frustrating and I get so salty playing this damn game. What should I do?
 

WidowPuppy

Attack pekingese
Why is my connection and lantency for mkx on xbone worse than for pc??? Both are hard wired in. This doesnt make any sense... When I play on PC there is very minimal delay and I can play/react most of the time...however, on Xbone, I can't react, I can't block, I drop combos, ect ect... So much input delay. Its extremely frustrating and I get so salty playing this damn game. What should I do?
Nothing you can do. Play on PC I suppose. I would sacrifice whatever over latency.
 

JayP

Noob
I was under impression that PC online is worst one...
So was I... and originally it was. I was so turned off by the PC version that I went out and bought the XBone version. Now it flipped, and the PC version is so much better... I don't get it... and I'm dying to understand WHAT is making the XBone version have so much input delay. I even did the port forwarding for my Xbone.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Welcome to my world. Other people can play the game [not fine but] at it's best. And I cannot even fucking move in any match, on PS4 or XBOX ONE. Full screen projectiles are almost impossible to react to with my usual input delay, while my opponents can counter poke, anti air, block accordingly, fucking react... I've never felt so ripped off in my entire life.
took the words out of mu mouth!!!!!
 

WidowPuppy

Attack pekingese
So was I... and originally it was. I was so turned off by the PC version that I went out and bought the XBone version. Now it flipped, and the PC version is so much better... I don't get it... and I'm dying to understand WHAT is making the XBone version have so much input delay. I even did the port forwarding for my Xbone.
It's not XBONE specific. I own MKX on PS4 and XBONE, one day it's slightly better on one, the next day, vice versa. All I know is it's always unplayable for me, and I can see that it's not for everyone else. [I'm playing on a 1 ms response time BenQ with a 60 down and 30 up wired connection]. I'm assuming it's user specific, the console/PC being irrelevant. Thinking location and distance or ping to the server. Sucks for the thousands of people who are at an insane disadvantage of 8+ frames of input delay, not always obvious to their opponent while visually everything looks fine on screen lol.

And with this going on, these are the things that Ed Boon and NRS are Tweeting.

Ed Boon ‏@noobde 31m31 minutes ago
Top selling game for the 1st half of the year. Not bad for a 20+ year old franchise! :) http://fortune.com/2015/07/23/top-10-selling-video-games-2015-so-far/…

Might as well post a pic of a middle finger.