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A New Take on Tier lists (Includes Lists)

Aqueous_Echo

Aqueous_Echo

Kombatant
mfkaoz said:
How much longer are you guys gonna keep upplaying Quan?
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Me personally have never had a true problem with Quan. Mabe it's the character or the way most everyone plays summoner the same.

I will say, for a game that almost urges players to trap an opponent in the corner, Quan sure has the hardest time getting out of the corner of any character. Even in EVO he was getting trapped left and right.

I think he's hella good mis screen and his zoning is on point, but one hint of complacency really hurts him if against a smart opponent who knows the MU.
 
Prinz

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Too many variables, too complicated. The only objective variable that is really needed to set the tier list - YOMI.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
There's no longer a narrow list of characters with a narrow set of tools that you can sit down and play against one another at the highest possible level within a month or two. It just doesn't work anymore. Variations trump the concept of single character tier placement, too.
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
ESG Jagged said:
i say Mileena is 2nd tier, 50/50, safe mix-ups, moderate zoning, okay control with that 8 frame roll/sky-drop, piercing has low/OH armored move. mileena is an all around character, with massive variety in how she is played... in your face....zoning....map control....turtle up mode....reaction frame punish.

so here she is:
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say Mileena is 4th tier, 50/50 that requires the use of meter, unsafe mix-ups, moderate zoning, okay control with that 8 frame roll/sky-drop, piercing has low/OH armored move. mileena is an all around character, with massive variety in how she is played... in your face....zoning....map control....turtle up mode....reaction frame punish.


Basically, Mileena isn't too hard to block against unless she has meter. Her mixups are pretty straight forward. When she has meter, she gets a much better mixup game, which is NOT safe, and requires a bar of meter. You have characters who have insane mixups with fast startup, safer on block, or the option to just cancel and be safe (sonya ms cancel for example). Her zoning is mediocre. She can't combo off of air sais, her projectile is a high, and lacks a mid projectie. Her Piercing low sai gets absolutely BLOWN up offline, and i repeat, BLOWN UP. Her 8 frame roll is only 8 frames upclose, the further u are away the longer sthe startup. Teleport kick doesn't track as well or is not as fast as the mk9 teleport. Oh, and F3 will not hit anyone offline, there's no wy you're getting mileenas f3 to hit offline.

I sense some buffs for her though. Saltface makes it look easy, but it's not. Getting far with Mileena is very difficult. She is a lot better online
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Mr. Mileena said:
say Mileena is 4th tier, 50/50 that requires the use of meter, unsafe mix-ups, moderate zoning, okay control with that 8 frame roll/sky-drop, piercing has low/OH armored move. mileena is an all around character, with massive variety in how she is played... in your face....zoning....map control....turtle up mode....reaction frame punish.


Basically, Mileena isn't too hard to block against unless she has meter. Her mixups are pretty straight forward. When she has meter, she gets a much better mixup game, which is NOT safe, and requires a bar of meter. You have characters who have insane mixups with fast startup, safer on block, or the option to just cancel and be safe (sonya ms cancel for example). Her zoning is mediocre. She can't combo off of air sais, her projectile is a high, and lacks a mid projectie. Her Piercing low sai gets absolutely BLOWN up offline, and i repeat, BLOWN UP. Her 8 frame roll is only 8 frames upclose, the further u are away the longer sthe startup. Teleport kick doesn't track as well or is not as fast as the mk9 teleport. Oh, and F3 will not hit anyone offline, there's no wy you're getting mileenas f3 to hit offline.

I sense some buffs for her though. Saltface makes it look easy, but it's not. Getting far with Mileena is very difficult. She is a lot better online
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^ All this. Listen to this man, he knows Mileena better than 99% of us.
Thing about Mileena is once you figure out her frames she's a sitting duck.
I'm an online warrior so my input is of limited worth but I don't even have to respect Mileena with Tanya at all.
I can block on reaction and blow her up for 30% hp a pop for almost free.
 
Aqueous_Echo

Aqueous_Echo

Kombatant
GLoRToR said:
^ All this. Listen to this man, he knows Mileena better than 99% of us.
Thing about Mileena is once you figure out her frames she's a sitting duck.
I'm an online warrior so my input is of limited worth but I don't even have to respect Mileena with Tanya at all.
I can block on reaction and blow her up for 30% hp a pop for almost free.
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I misunderstand. Why bec
GLoRToR said:
^ All this. Listen to this man, he knows Mileena better than 99% of us.
Thing about Mileena is once you figure out her frames she's a sitting duck.
I'm an online warrior so my input is of limited worth but I don't even have to respect Mileena with Tanya at all.
I can block on reaction and blow her up for 30% hp a pop for almost free.
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I'm not agreeing with the OP the first guy did but I'm not fully agreeing with his either. Why does he know Mileena more than 99% of us exactly? Because his tag?

Key to any fighting game is understanding your character and their options but more importantly understanding your opponent and their character as well. It's not just the character people... your opponent in any local or big tournament IS human.

Anyway, I'm out. This thread has me debating the future of MKX as a whole.
 
D

Death

Warrior
Surprisingly not a bad list. But I do have a feeling this game could be a 3 tier game. Obviously too early to tell but judging from your list I do think Kano/Jacqui should be in third and Kitana in second, Takeda in fourth.
 
DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
cassie overraterd,
kitana, kano underrated
and you said you play Jax and you say F3 is punishable ? before making a tier list just check better frame data of chars you play
 
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Bomborge

Bomborge

Aspiring scrub
I think its a good tier list. I just would like an actual explanation for sub-zero and scorpion. Also, I'd move Kano and Jacqui to 3rd tier (maybe even reptile) and takeda down to fourth tier. Possibly quan to 2nd tier as his extreme offense and absolute lack of defense I think prevents him from being 1st tier.
 
JerzeyReign

JerzeyReign

PSN: JerzeyReign
LOL at the guys trying to make a case that Mileena is better than what she is. When you see Saltface or Mr.Mileena rocking with her, they make it look easy but it really isn't that easy. I just started diving into this OS stuff and even those things we can OS are all risks to me. They are "safer" than what we have so we consider it safe.

I only have 1500 matches (and probably 1500 hours of practice time) with her so I'm not even as well versed as our Mileena Mount Rushmore but that claim we're close to the top is just silly to me. Ain't no way on God's green Earth we're near the top.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Aqueous_Echo said:
Amount of matches with 1 character doesnt matter. Honestly.

If it did, Scorpion would be the hardest character to go against and would make the smartest decisions.
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Let's discredit high level players and then make random comments then!
REO's MK9 Kabal is totally irrelevant.
If it was, Sub Zero would be the easiest character to play and would make the smartest decisions!!1one
 
E

epicpumpkin

Noob
Sigh jacqui is getting slept on hard. If nrs would give her one buff and one buff only it needs to be to make her 1212 all mids. So people cant just try to spam d2 wheb your punishing. Jacqui in fa is great shes. Honest character. Hell even in ht she is viable she just loses her best Aa and zoning. but if you can rc her gauntlet and maintain pressure many if not all of her MIx up options are safe with built in oses.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
ESG Jagged said:
if you can't trick an opponet into taking a F3 you shouldn't play her, as for gaps in strings all characters have it, lao has many but he is 1 on everyones... F234 is safe MKXframe data lies, its more than safe to half the cast. love to see you pull of a meter right before the u4 on me....im sure i could get D3 into roll on you maybe even f4 into roll on ya.... obviously you dont use f344 all the time, its like peoiple put that out there like the person is only gonna spam the move the entire match... all moves are viable in certain situations in a match!
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Nobody EVER should get hit by F3. As much as you "trick your oponent" to get hit by it, there is literally no reason why anyone should get hit by that. F234 is not safe, go test it, every single character can punish it with at least one poke, others get a full combo.


Aqueous_Echo said:
So explain to me why mixups are the only characteristic you're going for in explaining her tier placement...

Tiers are a waste of time if you're not doing variations within them. Tier lists are a waste of time anyway. Especially if all we are doing is basing it off mixups like this guy.
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I definitely don't base her tier placement off of her mix-ups, I explained the holes and punishes of her mix-ups because he was saying her mix-ups were safe *facepalms*

But aight, her zoning is meh, and Mr. Mileena pretty much already explained everything.
The fact that she is bottom 5 doesn't mean that she is ass or anything, she has good things as well, but she has clear weaknesses that make her bottom 5.

Aqueous_Echo said:
I knoooow right? She's terrible.

Forget about armor breaking starters into mixup with bar, forget about her fast run and walk speed, forget about the amazing armor in enh roll, forget about her better than most AA options, forget about her having an OH option whenever she has one bar at the least that can come out in the middle of any string, and forget about her space control...

It's so over for her. You don't even know man. She should be below goro... yeah you feel me? -_-
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Funny that you mention that... F12B4 is her main string, it's great for oki, but guess what? After sadistic ways on hit F12 whiffs against every character, they can either punish with a normal or armor out, this is a huge problem and people are not using it against her yet, but once they start doing it, oki with F1 will be pretty risky and sometimes worthless.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
GLoRToR said:
^ All this. Listen to this man, he knows Mileena better than 99% of us.
Thing about Mileena is once you figure out her frames she's a sitting duck.
I'm an online warrior so my input is of limited worth but I don't even have to respect Mileena with Tanya at all.
I can block on reaction and blow her up for 30% hp a pop for almost free.
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ok @Mr. Mileena, play my brother, PSN: eazy_sleazy, and ESG Jagged, ESG Magick, bet he gets F3 on ya, just cuz something is slow doesnt mean its not possible....
 
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