A New Take on Tier lists (Includes Lists)

[Lumpymoomilk]

Goro - automatic loss if your opponent can jump.

 

[Sultani]

i say Mileena is 2nd tier, 50/50, safe mix-ups......

LOL. Mileena has zero mixups or 50/50s without meter. They are NOT safe. You can go take a dump and come back and still punish her.

People still dont understand that you can punish a blocked roll or ex roll after she lands. She's not recovered just because she's not in the air anymore. If you hit someone with F3, you are playing a bad player and you are playing online.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

no
just no.

 

[SaSSolino]

nope

 

[SaSSolino]

variations?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

if you can't trick an opponet into taking a F3 you shouldn't play her, as for gaps in strings all characters have it, lao has many but he is 1 on everyones... F234 is safe MKXframe data lies, its more than safe to half the cast. love to see you pull of a meter right before the u4 on me....im sure i could get D3 into roll on you maybe even f4 into roll on ya.... obviously you dont use f344 all the time, its like peoiple put that out there like the person is only gonna spam the move the entire match... all moves are viable in certain situations in a match!

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I'm literally going to copy/paste the reply I gave to you on that other thread....


EX roll is super punisheable
F4 alone is -30 LOL
F44 is punisheable by everyone because it has a gap inbetween and some characters can punish on block.
F143 has a gap in Piercing so they can armor out
Low sai is super punisheable
21U4 has a gap where they can armor.
Doing D3~roll is suicide lol, even if the D3 hits roll will get blocked and punished...
F234 is NOT safe, it's -10
People should NEVER get hit by F3, if they do it's their fault. And F344 is nowhere near safe, it's -19.

She has literally no mix-ups when she has no meter, and when she does she takes huge risks with them. All the string that you listed and more are good, but when she has no meter you aren't mixing anyone up, and again, even with meter the mix-ups she gains are the most punisheable ones of the game.


She is not a bad character, but when she gets compared to everyone else she is just not that good. Is she viable? I think she is.... She has to work harder than most characters for sure and she is definitely bottom 10, even bottom 5.

So explain to me why mixups are the only characteristic you're going for in explaining her tier placement...

Tiers are a waste of time if you're not doing variations within them. Tier lists are a waste of time anyway. Especially if all we are doing is basing it off mixups like this guy.

 

[Derptile]

In this thread: A bunch of Mileena players that don't know how to option select.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

So explain to me why mixups are the only characteristic you're going for in explaining her tier placement...

Tiers are a waste of time if you're not doing variations within them. Tier lists are a waste of time anyway. Especially if all we are doing is basing it off mixups like this guy.

Do you understand what he meant with "21U4 F44 F134 F234 F3"? He meant not only her mixup, her footsies are terrible too with a lot of holes

 

[Scott The Scot]

I wouldn't say Jason is that bad.

Do you agree with the Kano placement @Youphemism ?

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Do you understand what he meant with "21U4 F44 F134 F234 F3"? He meant not only her mixup, her footsies are terrible too with a lot of holes

I knoooow right? She's terrible.

Forget about armor breaking starters into mixup with bar, forget about her fast run and walk speed, forget about the amazing armor in enh roll, forget about her better than most AA options, forget about her having an OH option whenever she has one bar at the least that can come out in the middle of any string, and forget about her space control...

It's so over for her. You don't even know man. She should be below goro... yeah you feel me? -_-

 

[Pan1cMode]

i say Mileena is 2nd tier, 50/50, safe mix-ups, moderate zoning, okay control with that 8 frame roll/sky-drop, piercing has low/OH armored move. mileena is an all around character, with massive variety in how she is played... in your face....zoning....map control....turtle up mode....reaction frame punish.

so here she is:





Edited by: ESG Jagged
1st Tier:
Kung Lao (Mobility, dami,chip, mix ups in hat trick)
Tanya (Same but has zoning in pyromancer)
Raiden (He has meh footsies but still uber good)
D'vorah (Crazy in yo face game, high dami anywhere, good footsies)
Quan Chi (Good zoning, walking vortex, he gets bad when on his back)
Shinnok (Chip, 50/50s, OK dami, good zoning and vortex)
Jax
Erron Black (, 50/50s, solid command throw,good footsies, and good oki)

2nd Tier:
Erron Black (Maybe should be in first but probs not, 50/50s, solid command throw,good footsies, and good oki)
Sonya (mix ups in CO, Pressure in Demo, and Setups w/ drone, shes just super solid)
Kung Jin (good footsies and mix ups, a little unsafe now, still good)
Scorpion (you've all fought him enough to why he is good/bad)
Ermac (super high risk, super high reward)
Sub-Zero (TOM BRADY IS SUB-ZERO!!!)
Kenshi (Good zoning and armor so defense is awesome but offense is meh for the most part)
Mileena

3rd Tier:
Cassie (Lots of pressure but with gaps, top 3 footsies, 50/50s, best ex special in the game,
Kitana (Awesome projectile, great Dami, she looks waaaaay better than vanilla but lacks mix ups)
Liu Kang (Great zoning, Great pressure, Insane chip in FF, lacks dami off overhead)
Kotal Kahn (Unsafe but good footsies, 50/50s in WG, good command grab in SG)
Takeda (Ok mix ups, but slow normals and lots of string gaps)

4th Tier:
Johnny Cage (OK at everything but great at nothing)
Kano (poor Kano, he's OK...not)
Jason (meh or worse at most things, hard to take rounds at the end when he has that armor though)
Jaqui (FA has decent zoning, other two are just weak)
Reptile (Bad dami, meh overhead, force balls not at MK9 level, but solid mobility)
Goro (Goro!)
Ferra/Torr (underrated IMO but idk, they could be lower, idk the char too well so...)

In what world is Mileena even debatably better than Cassie? Or Kenshi, SZ, Scorp and Ermac for that matter.

 

[james1926]

In this thread: A bunch of Mileena players that don't know how to option select.

OS after the low is very hard to do consistently, and even if someone could do it f44 is -8 and interruptible, and you obviously can't OS the overhead. Her only viable OS is 21 (roll on hit, U4 on block which is also interruptible). Her OS game is weak compared to other characters.

 

[Big Pampering]

Kung lao being top is purely because of tempest and buzzsaw only covers a handful of matchups slightly better.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Mileena strikes me as the games most underrated character, people have this surface level view of characters they haven't played.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I knoooow right? She's terrible.

Forget about armor breaking starters into mixup with bar, forget about her fast run and walk speed, forget about the amazing armor in enh roll, forget about her better than most AA options, forget about her having an OH option whenever she has one bar at the least that can come out in the middle of any string, and forget about her space control...

It's so over for her. You don't even know man. She should be below goro... yeah you feel me? -_-

@EMPEROR_SunFire i don't think was saying she's unviable. He certainly made it clear to me anyway that she can be used successfully. He was just stating weaknesses and exploits that ppl can take advantage of if they know the MU. Certainly didn't seem to me that he was crying about how bad she was. She's a meter dependant character which makes it more difficult to compete in this game. overall it's pretty balanced but someone's gotta round out the bottom tier

 

[SaltShaker]

I wouldn't say Jason is that bad.

Do you agree with the Kano placement @Youphemism ?

About time he starts getting placed properly. Finally people are beginning to realize the truth. Hopefully it isn't too late.

 

[rafaw]

A list Johnny might be higher!

 

[TakeAChance]

I'm literally going to copy/paste the reply I gave to you on that other thread....


EX roll is super punisheable
F4 alone is -30 LOL
F44 is punisheable by everyone because it has a gap inbetween and some characters can punish on block.
F143 has a gap in Piercing so they can armor out
Low sai is super punisheable
21U4 has a gap where they can armor.
Doing D3~roll is suicide lol, even if the D3 hits roll will get blocked and punished...
F234 is NOT safe, it's -10
People should NEVER get hit by F3, if they do it's their fault. And F344 is nowhere near safe, it's -19.

She has literally no mix-ups when she has no meter, and when she does she takes huge risks with them. All the string that you listed and more are good, but when she has no meter you aren't mixing anyone up, and again, even with meter the mix-ups she gains are the most punisheable ones of the game.


She is not a bad character, but when she gets compared to everyone else she is just not that good. Is she viable? I think she is.... She has to work harder than most characters for sure and she is definitely bottom 10, even bottom 5.

Glad you did this because I was face palming so damn hard.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

reptile is way better than many ppl think

 

[Tim Static]

Props for making an actual TIER LIST unlike the YOMI Character Ranking they call a tier list. Still rather see a list done by variation, at least for the upper/best character variations.

But we'll see how long this lasts.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

@EMPEROR_SunFire i don't think was saying she's unviable. He certainly made it clear to me anyway that she can be used successfully. He was just stating weaknesses and exploits that ppl can take advantage of if they know the MU. Certainly didn't seem to me that he was crying about how bad she was. She's a meter dependant character which makes it more difficult to compete in this game. overall it's pretty balanced but someone's gotta round out the bottom tier

She builds meter fairly easily though. She doesnt have to take a 40% life loss to gain meter, and the fact she can use an OH, or low sai if you're bold, at any given time in any string, it prevents turtling, and forces the opponent to not only pay attention to their meter but also hers.

Personally, I just don't like the "If they dont have a safe mixup, the character sucks" ideology. Not every character is supposed to be rushdown, not every character is meant to control space. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. It depends on the player using them, how they use them, more than their spot on a tier, especially this early.

 

[TakeAChance]

Mileena strikes me as the games most underrated character, people have this surface level view of characters they haven't played.

I think and will continue to say that Ethereal is now being slept on hard.

However, even with a simplistic view of her she has problems that make her not top tier.

21U4 is godlike, but interuptable.
F4 even when option selected is still hella negative.
B12 option select is pointless since it's easier to just hit confirm it.
F12B4~option select is good, but you literally have eons to confirm the hit into roll on this string.

I think her OS tech has been overblown. 21~OS Ball roll is still really good, but the string itself is still a giant hole.

The reason I think Ethereal is so slept on, is because if I look at all of those instances above, I have a safe option in all of them to get back out to neutral and build meter while doing it.

I can make F4 a safe commitment, I can make 21 a safe check, and I have a safe option in the corner to get out on knockdown (unless it's sub zero).

All of her drawbacks in other variations due to my own personal style led me to ethereal. I can make her a saferish character and I can cover half my life bar way better than the other two variations. If she had a slight damage boost she would be perfect.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I think and will continue to say that Ethereal is now being slept on hard.

However, even with a simplistic view of her she has problems that make her not top tier.

21U4 is godlike, but interuptable.
F4 even when option selected is still hella negative.
B12 option select is pointless since it's easier to just hit confirm it.
F12B4~option select is good, but you literally have eons to confirm the hit into roll on this string.

I think her OS tech has been overblown. 21~OS Ball roll is still really good, but the string itself is still a giant hole.

The reason I think Ethereal is so slept on, is because if I look at all of those instances above, I have a safe option in all of them to get back out to neutral.

I can make F4 a safe commitment, I can make 21 a safe check, and I have a safe option in the corner to get out on knockdown (unless it's sub zero).

All of her drawbacks in other variations due to my own personal style led me to ethereal. I can make her a saferish character and I can cover half my life bar way better than the other two variations. If she had a slight damage boost she would be perfect.

Ethereal is what brought me to Mileena, tbh. I still use it more than Ravenous believe it or not.

It'd be a nice touch to have a bit faster startup, or recovery, to her normal teleports. Not something crazy but just to help make it a bit more viable.

It'll probably never happen but giving Ethereal a low sai, or a ravenous/piercing finisher string, would undoubtedly help this variation compete on a much higher level. Just my opinion anyway.

 

[mfkaoz]

How much longer are you guys gonna keep upplaying Quan?