Pre Evo Salt Report

[Youphemism]

Do I know better?

I'll follow what you said and use your Erron example. Where elite players like Fox and REO used Erron in tournaments and also majors, they wouldn't dare touch the likes of Kano. Also at least prepatch the entire community agreed Erron was Top 5-10, and post patch still agree he is really good. Kano was never considered as good as Erron since the B1 nerf. Erron is great because everyone acknowledges his toolset having strong bs, elite players placing/winning with him, etc. Kano is "pretty good" because "reasons".

Entire world? Yes I said that. It's not true? The FGC extends to America, Europe, etc, and we have like 3 Kano players tops making whispers. Not noise, whispers. Decay started off main'ing Kano and now plays Jax better than ever. Hippo outright dropped Kano altogether for Liu and Kitana. Isaac bust out his Scorpion when it's time to win. Dave dropped him for Tanya. Noobe hasn't been as strong as his Injustice days so far, and maybe it's because his character is weaker than his Injustice one? Then there's Royale, Coach Steve. What's going on here? Of allllllllllllllll the amazing players in this community, if Kano was as good as some "say", then his representation wouldn't be thisssssss low and thisssssss dying. Also I'd like to point out that while many have dropped him the last few months, not ONE single top player has picked him up. That to me is the biggest statement of all. We have seen people pick up top tiers like Tanya, Jax, etc. Shinnok. We have seen people pick up mid tiers like Liu, Kitana, Kenshi, etc. We have even seen people pick up low tiers like Reptile and Takeda. Yet not a single high level or top player in the last two months has picked up Kano. Why? Coincidence? Or do they see the character is just not good and pick someone else?

Thread isn't derailed, this IS the Salt Report. Outside of a select few, the Kano community is salty as hell and with good reason.

"they wouldn't dare touch the likes of Kano" Yeah, good one. How do you know what they're thinking? Thing is you don't, that's an assumption. But I also don't know what they're thinking so we'll put that discussion aside because it's a useless one. Kano is not good because "reasons", he's good because of several good reasons like his space control, footsies and in the case of Cutthroat mixups and damage. Don't put quote marks around words that weren't said, it's like you're stretching for reasons to downplay

The FGC can extend as far as it wants, if you were really including the "entire world" you'd include ESL where Master VHD did well with his Kano but you're not. You're purposely selecting which evidence you want to use in your argument. But most likely you're mainly thinking of America because nothing else matters right? In that case we have Noobe, Coach Steve, Royale at the very least all playing Kano and making progress with him. Why bring up Dave when he's not been going to any majors? If anything that just counts as TYM Kanos and the majority of the TYM Kanos have dropped him while the Kanos that actually go to majors have stuck with him. Funny how the ones that are out there competing are actually sticking with him but the ones on TYM are dropping him for other characters.. How good Kano is is not represented by the amount of people representing the character in tournament. Next you'll be saying Batgirl was bad... Noone has picked up Cassie in the last two months, nor Kung Jin, nor Quan. Are they bad too? Or maybe is it that people just want to play a different archetype of character or play the character they're loyal to. Just because someone doesn't pick up a character doesn't mean the character is bad. You and others have dropped him anyway so why are you even still complaining about him?

"Good reason" is an overstatement. Your main "good reason" for asking for buffs in the first place was because Shinnok, Kenshi and Kitana all got buffs and therefore asking for buffs for Kano was warranted. Difference is they were the worst in the game, Kano wasn't and isn't.

 

[protools27]

I would not even go that far to assume match up numbers for a character whom none of the ESL competitor neither prepared for nor knew anything about. I would be very surprised if half of the participants were aware that 2,1 is +2 on block or that the second hit of b+1,4 is a low attack. I exclude Kitana from my zoning lists because I have no idea whatsoever how good (or bad) she currently is.

While Sonic Fox's performance is obviously impressive, his fanboys such as SneakyTortoise are as gullible and as ignorant as ever. He could have picked Erron Black and breezed through the tournament.

First he was winning in injustice with batgirl, then he was lacking in fundamentals, then it was 50/50's, now its that no one knew the match up. Downplaying at it's finest. Never change Dave, never change #lowgunshotsfired

 

[SM StarGazer]

This Salt report is BS.

There is only ONE gram of Salt that needs to be addressed: Jaxqui.

 

[a male waitress]

Exactly. One of like two/three Kano players in the entire world that actually competed at majors, while every other person who plays at that level in the world uses other characters. I agree, that should tell you something.

It's Coach Steve and that belgian guy Master VHD i think who are the two who compete offline right?

 

[1man3letters]

Okay, so first off, apologies for the lack of Salt Reports lately. There are a few reasons for their absence, one involving filthy gypsies,

 

[SaltShaker]

@Youphemism to simplify the debate I have singular outline. The crappy combo of Cyber/Commando, what character are either of those two variations combined better than any characters best variation? Better than who? Goro's best variation? Reptile? Who? Surely not MoS Ermac, War God Kotal, any Jax variation, etc, any top or mid tiers best variation. So it's simple. Which characters is Cyber/Commando better than their best one?

I say you have the Goro, Reptile, Takeda crew, but then who? Even Takeda may end up better if Ronin dirt is discovered, unlike Cyber where it's so weak and straightforward that the entire character was discovered in weeks.

Characters who have a better variation, 2, or even all 3 than Cyber or Commando.

*means goes without saying because so overwhelmingly stronger than Kano

-Cassie*
-D'Vorah*
-Ermac*
-Erron*
-Jacqui
-Jax*
-Johnny
-Kenshi*
-Kitana
-Kotal
-Kung Jin*
-Kung Lao*
-Mileena
-Liu Kang
-Predator
-Quan Chi*
-Raiden*
-Scorpion*
-Shinnok*
-Sonya*
-Sub-Zero
-Tanya*


22 characters with at least 1 2 or 3 variations better than Cyber/Commando, 12 incredibly better imo. Ferra/Torr is debatable, and I think Cyber/Commando is better than the remaining characters who are all scrubs.

Which one of those 22 is Cyber or Commando better than? If none wouldn't that warrant buffs? If only one or two or three at the most would that warrant buffs? If 6 7 or 8 wouldn't that mean you should revisit why you place him over so many strong variations?

I'm genuinely curious to where you think these two variations stand in comparison to other characters strongest variations.

 

[SaltShaker]

It's Coach Steve and that belgian guy Master VHD i think who are the two who compete offline right?

Not sure about that other dude, if he's online only, but Royale has played Kano well as a main since release offline as well as Coach Steve.

 

[Zoidberg747]

It's Coach Steve and that belgian guy Master VHD i think who are the two who compete offline right?

Master VHD
Noobe
KH Royale(17th at a major)
Coach Steve(Top 16 at a major)
Isaac

He has low representation but he has had some decent results which Saltshaker chooses to completely ignore lol.

 

[DoctorSexual]

I voted for Kotal because he's always left out and forgotten about in everything.

 

[ZigZag]

With @PND Mustard's performance at EGP I think he'll be a threat to alot of talented players clearly he already is.
I could name all kinds of people who would be a problem but the fact Mustard plays Shinnok would lead me to believe some portion of the Shinnok downplayers (that totally exist) will be put on blast.

 

[buyacushun]

Song I listen to when I read these from now on.

Welcome Back @SneakyTortoise

EDIT: Just finished reading. That was a decent salt catch up post. I think the most salt isn't going to come from top tiers because we know what they can do. It will come from a low tier either being made to look good by a player or getting completely destroyed. Either way there will be threads trying to blow up a main (Like that dumb Kitana one), or One using EVO as proojf their character is buns.

Special prediction that we never see Goro at EVO then he gets his kenshi patch when Tremor is released.

I have flash disabled because of that whole hack thing and just realized that also disables my ability to see youtube vids in TYM so here is the end of the link to the vid I posted for anyone in a similar predicament. Just past that at the end of youtube.com. /watch?v=-yKFlgg8WiM

 

[dribirut]

@Youphemism to simplify the debate I have singular outline. The crappy combo of Cyber/Commando, what character are either of those two variations combined better than any characters best variation? Better than who? Goro's best variation? Reptile? Who? Surely not MoS Ermac, War God Kotal, any Jax variation, etc, any top or mid tiers best variation. So it's simple. Which characters is Cyber/Commando better than their best one?

I say you have the Goro, Reptile, Takeda crew, but then who? Even Takeda may end up better if Ronin dirt is discovered, unlike Cyber where it's so weak and straightforward that the entire character was discovered in weeks.

Characters who have a better variation, 2, or even all 3 than Cyber or Commando.

*means goes without saying because so overwhelmingly stronger than Kano

-Cassie*
-D'Vorah*
-Ermac*
-Erron*
-Jacqui
-Jax*
-Johnny
-Kenshi*
-Kitana
-Kotal
-Kung Jin*
-Kung Lao*
-Mileena
-Liu Kang
-Predator
-Quan Chi*
-Raiden*
-Scorpion*
-Shinnok*
-Sonya*
-Sub-Zero
-Tanya*


22 characters with at least 1 2 or 3 variations better than Cyber/Commando, 12 incredibly better imo. Ferra/Torr is debatable, and I think Cyber/Commando is better than the remaining characters who are all scrubs.

Which one of those 22 is Cyber or Commando better than? If none wouldn't that warrant buffs? If only one or two or three at the most would that warrant buffs? If 6 7 or 8 wouldn't that mean you should revisit why you place him over so many strong variations?

I'm genuinely curious to where you think these two variations stand in comparison to other characters strongest variations.

Man why do you bother with him.. Might be the most dense poster on tym.. Just give up its a lost cause.
Let him be bad with Kano..

 

[Javierich0]

Tempest Lao is the only character that needs to be normalized.

 

[learis1]

Voted for Sub-Zero. It's not the volume of salt that counts, it's the quality. And the sub-zero community's salt is always of the finest quality. Extra salty!

 

[Evil Canadian]

Goro needs to be normalized, 2 arms like the rest of the cast none of this 4 arms nonsense.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Tanya is still an extremely powerful character, though I think naginata took the biggest hit from the nerfs IMO. Kobu still has really great pressure.

Naginata does less damage, but it was the least affected by the teleport nerf imo. Pyromancer got hit pretty hard. All three are still good, though, with Kobu Jutsu probably being the strongest overall bc of the pressure.

 

[Slymind]

My salt award this week goes out to that guy complaining that Kung Lao's damage isn't as good as Kitana's and he only does 40% BNBs.

That takes the cake

http://testyourmight.com/threads/no-over-49-damage-for-lao.54281/

That wasn't even salt, it was sheer insanity.

 

[M2Dave]

He could've but the fact is he didn't. He actually showed superb spacing and footsies against some of the best in the NRS community. I dunno why you think everyone who disagrees with you is a Sonic Fox fan boy when in fact they just see that he's out there winning stuff and doing well for himself while you're sitting behind a computer moaning about a 17 (I think) year old. Get a grip and be happy for the kid.

Please do not project your love and fanaticism for Sonic Fox on me. Aside from when you fanboys tag my name and quote my posts about topics that you perceive to be about Sonic Fox, I rarely talk about "the kid". I wish him nothing but the best, and I am very certain that he and I would play some casual games and get along just fine at an off-line event, as we have done in the past. You fanboys and zealots, on the other hand, are unbearable.

@SaltShaker , please stop arguing with dumb people.

Thank you.

 

[SaltShaker]

@SaltShaker , please stop arguing with dumb people.

Thank you.

 

[LinKueiLegend]

These are always too good. Thank you basedSneaky

 

[VenomX-90]

Idk the character or player who keep spamming the same sh*t over and over again I guess.

 

[The_Tile]

Please do not project your love and fanaticism for Sonic Fox on me. Aside from when you fanboys tag my name and quote my posts about topics that you perceive to be about Sonic Fox, I rarely talk about "the kid". I wish him nothing but the best, and I am very certain that he and I would play some casual games and get along just fine at an off-line event, as we have done in the past. You fanboys and zealots, on the other hand, are unbearable.

You just continue to call everyone who disagrees with you about Sonic Fox a fanboy if it really makes you feel better. Pure, ignorant and petty foolishness.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

We have seen people pick up top tiers like Tanya, Jax, etc. Shinnok. We have seen people pick up mid tiers like Liu, Kitana, Kenshi, etc. We have even seen people pick up low tiers like Reptile and Takeda. Yet not a single high level or top player in the last two months has picked up Kano. Why? Coincidence? Or do they see the character is just not good and pick someone else?

I'm just trying to work out exactly what you are saying here... are you saying Kano is significantly worse than Reptile to the point that Reptile and Takeda to the point that both are viable but Kano is not?

Because otherwise, the fact that Takeda is being picked is just more proof that power level isn't why Kano players aren't showing in competition.




If however, you are saying that Kano is so much worse than Takeda, that Takeda is playable but Kano is not, than that's another issue entirely, one that starts with you guys getting the big ol "D", and then finishing it with the letters "ownplaying".

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm just trying to work out exactly what you are saying here... are you saying Kano is significantly worse than Reptile to the point that Reptile and Takeda to the point that both are viable but Kano is not?

Because otherwise, the fact that Takeda is being picked is just more proof that power level isn't why Kano players aren't showing in competition.




If however, you are saying that Kano is so much worse than Takeda, that Takeda is playable but Kano is not, than that's another issue entirely, one that starts with you guys getting the big ol "D", and then finishing it with the letters "ownplaying".

I think Takeda and Kano are on the same level, and both better than Reptile. None of these characters are winning anything beyond a local in their current state.

There are exceptions in any game, but on paper most low tiers usually have low representation for obvious reasons. Maybe a one game switch like Sub-Zero the other day, sure. But that applies to anyone. I don't play Takeda or Reptile, but if I did I would make the same comments because I feel they need buffs too, possibly even moreso than Kano. I also think crappy variations of lower or mid characters should get buffed before higher tiers. Like I remember you play Sub. If you said "buff GM" I would start laughing, but if you said "buff Unbreakable" I would agree 100%. Yet NRS does things like buff high tier Sonya's 3rd variation instead. I'll never understand it. With the way the game is played, I'd rather see lower guys get buffed than nerfing all the top, or buffing already top tiers.

What I think happened is that most people, including the Kano community, myself too at one point, thought he was better than what he was. "A strong mid tier" I said for over a month. But the B1 nerf happened. More dirt was found with other characters while Kano is the same character since Day 1 (only Cutthroat is still capable of expanding). Then characters below got buffed passing him. Then more characters below got buffed to pass him. Now he's sitting there chillin in the basement living off his former glory of Week 1 prepatch B1 antics and 5% knives in Cyber that get armored when EX'd. -.-

Also I'd like to clarify that I'm specifically speaking of Cyber and Commando. I actually believe Cutthroat is fine outside of it's still unfixed B1 hitbox because it has the magical whiffs at times. I'd "like" to see buffs like anyone else but it doesn't "need" anything in that variation to be honest. Cyber/Commando is where my issues lie. Cyber is my favorite but I rarely play it anymore. I use Cutthroat only when I play Kano now. It is legit and I think there's more to come in the future from it. Though if not for Cutthroat those other two variations would be Bottom 5. Those are the two that need buffs. There are very, very few characters that don't have a variation better than Cyber/Commando.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Maybe your right, there is very little competitive showing for Kano. Just that your reasoning behind it wasn't very sound, because if people are picking Takeda and Reptile even though they are bad, why aren't they picking Kano? Makes me think Kano isn't lacking in showing because he needs buffs but possibly for other reasons.

Do you really think Kano would get demolished that hard in a match against some of the higher tier characters, if both were being played by equally skilled players? (not saying they wouldn't, just asking, you know the character better than me)

I haven't actually seen any real quality Kano matches to judge lol



Also, I'm a Kung Lao player now #buffKungLao