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Jump Attacks vs AA in MKX (part 1)

RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Eldriken said:
Glad to see you edited this, lol. I was gonna be like, "PICK JACQUI AND TELL ME HER D2 IS STRONG."

Hers is fucking BALLS.

But I still think that AAing in this game could use some help or jump-in attacks could take a hit from the "Normalization Stick".
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uprockets are nice in the full auto variation though :) .. but imo like i said in post above. you should be rewarded without use of armor / specials / only d2's if you make a read on a jumpin. should be easily standing 1 / 2'd or w/e normal
 
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Eldriken

Guest
HoneyBee said:
I play D'Vorah so I have no issues with AAs. In those videos posted, you could have just taken a step back and trip guarded the attacker. I think players just need to work on their spacing to properly deal with jump ins. From tournament matches that I've seen, jump ins don't seem to be over powered.
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Since you play D'Vorah, you're forbidden to talk about AAs since your d2 is one of the best AAs in the entire game. :DOGE
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Pig Of The Hut said:
Who can't aa ?
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It's not that character don't have anti airs, it's that some jump attacks are joker j3/1 on steroids, typically the high tier chars. Chars like KL jump in for free if you're not one of the lucky few who have full combo on hit armoured moves. What am I supposed to do against subzero, KL, KJ etc? MK9 had it fine where early jumpkicks beat anti airs but then you were a bit - and had no backdash, in this game you can be +, still beat anti airs and have the option to backdash.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
RM AtK! said:
uprockets are nice in the full auto variation though :) .. but imo like i said in post above. you should be rewarded without use of armor / specials / only d2's if you make a read on a jumpin. should be easily standing 1 / 2'd or w/e normal
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Oh, I agree. Up Rocket is a fucking amazing AA and if you're at the right distance, can convert for a full combo. If not, you can still peg 'em with Hand Cannon for like 17% unbreakable damage. But this is only effective if they jump from a fair distance away. If they're relatively close to you, you have no AA option unless you read the jump-in.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Eldriken said:
Oh, I agree. Up Rocket is a fucking amazing AA and if you're at the right distance, can convert for a full combo. If not, you can still peg 'em with Hand Cannon for like 17% unbreakable damage. But this is only effective if they jump from a fair distance away. If they're relatively close to you, you have no AA option unless you read the jump-in.
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yep for sure i was just teasin ya, trust me no need to explain the aaing to me. i've been saying it's dumb since day 1
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
HoneyBee said:
I play D'Vorah so I have no issues with AAs. In those videos posted, you could have just taken a step back and trip guarded the attacker. I think players just need to work on their spacing to properly deal with jump ins. From tournament matches that I've seen, jump ins don't seem to be over powered.
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Let's say my character was stepping back just as that situation came to be? What then? If my character was already walking backwards as that jumping situation occured, I just have to take it? Also, I did test low profiling in that sub zero situation. For some reason Sonya's D4 and B4 won't catch subby as he lands. Both will whiff and Sub Zero will land with relative frame advantage.

I can't make a video for every 100 situation, but it can't be assumed that I wasn't already stepping backwards in an attempt to tripguard. And even then there's the argument that tripguarding shouldn't be the only way to AA in such a common situation.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
TakeAChance said:
I would just like to state that Johnny Cage's uppercut is one of the worst uppercuts I have EVER seen lol
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Which one? His standing uppercut or his uppercut aimed at your genitalia? :DOGE

Jacqui's is really, really bad as well, so I feel your pain. =(
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Don't get me wrong, I'm SUPER glad people are like "well, you could do X in situation Y" to anti-air. That's good people are dealing with it.

But given everything, it doesn't make sense to me that I have to do this. I shouldn't have to spend meter to do an armored AA to catch a jumper who I have read correctly. I shouldn't have to settle for high-crushing the jump with a 3% D4. I shouldn't have to ensure that my opponent will only jump at me when I am at a distance where backing up a bit will give me a free whiff punish.

Jumping is a universal tool, and AA-ing is supposed to be a universal tool against it.

I think it was clearly the intent of NRS to make anti-airs (d2's) a sufficient way to deal with jump ins. I'm sure their motivation was all along that a well-timed d2, against a well-read jump in a well-spaced situation should reward that person. It just didn't turn out to be the case.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
TakeAChance said:
His standing uppercut. It has absolutely no horizontal properties lol.
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Does his whiff on people that jump right in front of him as well? Jacqui's does against certain characters. It's really sad. :/
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
TakeAChance said:
His standing uppercut. It has absolutely no horizontal properties lol.
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Yeah, this is kind of a big give-and-take I noticed with anti-airs.

Good horizantal hitbox = (relatively) Decent against jump-ins, terrible against crossups
Good vertical hitbox = (relatively) Decent against crossups, terrible against jump ins.

Sonya is in the first category, but still loses alot against jump ins.

Fortunately, her standing 3 is actually a really good anti-crossup tool. The only issue is it's 5% that is nearly impossible to convert off... It's just such low reward for against such high risk.
 
SneakyTortoise

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
What would help, if people are going to have a productive discussion about it, is if someone gave a full list of characters who they feel struggle with characters jumping in on them.

Then, people can discuss it properly. Maybe some of these characters do high meterless damage/build meter easily and so it's part of their balance design? This would negate people's arguments of "I shouldn't have to spend meter".

We can't possibly hope to have a useful discussion about this game if people just say shit like "OMG anti-airs suck in this game, waaaaah"

(Also, not directing this at you OP, I like that you provided specific examples)
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
SneakyTortoise said:
What would help, if people are going to have a productive discussion about it, is if someone gave a full list of characters who they feel struggle with characters jumping in on them.

Then, people can discuss it properly. Maybe some of these characters do high meterless damage/build meter easily and so it's part of their balance design? This would negate people's arguments of "I shouldn't have to spend meter".

We can't possibly hope to have a useful discussion about this game if people just say shit like "OMG anti-airs suck in this game, waaaaah"

(Also, not directing this at you OP, I like that you provided specific examples)
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I think it's a VERY character specific thing, and VERY situation specific. It's why whenever we have a "how do I deal with jump-ins? thread, it's a repetitive pattern of

"X tactic works really good against this!"
"I tried that, I get beat every time!"

I think it's natural for every character to have certain specific tools that work against specific things, but I still think D2's should be a reliable fall-back. And the issue is they aren't. It tends to be a staple of fighting games that since everyone can jump attack, everyone has a way to deal with it. Like crouching fierce in Street Fighter.

But my issue is MKX is kind of lacking that because D2's have bad hitboxes, and comparatively bad active frames. I don't think it would upset the meta to fix this. In fact I'm sure it was NRS's intent D2's should work reliably- but like Injustice it just didn't work initially until patched.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
some chars have very strong jump-ins, some dont. some chars have strong anti-airs, some dont. learn your match-up specific tools and space out your anti-airs correctly (oh sry i forgot ppl say their are no footies in mkx).

jump kicks are ok to be harder to anti-air since you dont get that much damage off of them. its an option for the attacker.
 
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delbuster

delbuster

hungry
there aren't 100% success rate anti airs in this game besides armor moves, yes. this is totally fine though.

if you are reading a jump and fail to punish, you probably are using the wrong tool to punish. d2 is not the only answer to jump ins. you can back up, run forward and punish their landing, use armor, etc.

you can even just turn jump ins into a mixup game. air to air is strong, forcing them to press their air normal early. it's also very difficult to react to. if they press their air normal early, expecting you to air to air, and they whiff because you didn't jump (sometimes you need to duck and they need to not play Kung Jin) you just punish when they land.

once you accept that your grounded anti air will not work 100% of the time vs all jump ins from all ranges at all timings, and figure out more options, you'll find that aa is fine. the only game where anti airs never fail is STREET FIGHTER X TEKKEN
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
I could be wrong, but to me AA's are just different in this game. Remember when Injustice came out and people were all "er meh gerd, this game has no anti airs!" because everyone still has their MK9 glasses on. I think it's similar for MKX, first thought was to try the MK9 standing jab or D1, then it's natural to go the Injustice route of D2 and because niether of them are as consistent as they were in previous games we're once again hearing the "this game has no anti airs" arguement.

You can anti air in this game but it's very different, it revovles more around making the attack whiff so you can punish it or at the very least turn the pressure game around for yourself or making use of reverse inputs. This just happens to be much harder than going for a jab or D2.

Give it time and I think people will adjust the way they did with Injustice.
 
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