General/Other - Ninjitsu Ninjutsu Strengths, Weaknesses, Tweaks Thread

[learis1]

So Ninjutsu seems to be Scorpion's least popular variation. That doesn't mean it's bad because it isn't. But it doesn't have the oomph of his other variations.

It sacrifices the zoning, damage, and pressure abilities of inferno and hellfire in exchange for... footsies!!!

With proper use of footsies, ninjutsu can be made to be an defensive and offensive brick wall. He capitalizes on people who like to push buttons from improper ranges or times, since his f2 will most likely beat out their attack and lead into a combo and future mixup situation.

Overall this is effective if played smartly with excellent spacing, but where it fails I find is when people turtle up and play conservatively, forcing ninjutsu scorpion to play more offensively. He lacks the offensive power of his other 2 variations I believe, and it can severely gimp him against tough matchups.

With that in mind, I'd like some minor tweaks to be made to his strings:

b3, 2, f2
f4, 2
b1, 2, 1

These are Ninjutsu unique strings, and serve a valuable purpose in applying meterless mixup damage or mid string pressure damage. The problem is that the damage is abysmal, less than a throw. My only suggestion is to increase the final hit of damage so these strings total to 15%. The strings should be worth more damage than a throw. While it's only a difference of like 5%, it will greatly help Ninjutsu in those situations where he needs to be offensive and score damage without meter.

One other peculiarity I see is that f2 glitches sometimes and doesn't float as high as it should. And I'm not talking about using it mid combo, I'm talking about it being the first attack. Perhaps other Ninjustsu players have noticed this and it practically ruins the future combo/mixup potential afterwards. This glitch needs to be addressed.

So what are your opinions on Ninjutsu? What matches (if any) do you find it to be superior to the other 2 variations. What tweaks (if any) would you want for it?

 

[itz My Call]

I'd like the ninjitsu specific strings to be a little more safe.

The variation is going to be useful in any match where the other character has far reaching foward moving buttons

It'll get more love when people realize inferno zoning isn't that great. I think inferno is the weakest of the three, but people complain about it so it'll get nerfed into being the weakest even if it isn't right now.

 

[OutworldKeith]

@itz My Call
2,1,2
B1,2,1
F4, 2

Are all safe on block. B3, 2, F2 is the only one that's punishable on block. Other than that I completely agree with your post.

@learis1
I'm not so sure that's a glitch. If your opponent tries to jump out and the F2 snags them the launch/float will be altered.

As far as those strings go I think the damage is fine. You'll be using the throw in your setups more anyway. Not to mention that F4, 2 has a great hard knockdown setup on hit. There are other things better than damage.

My only complaint is the damage scaling on B2. It really shouldn't be like that but I'm pretty sure @Eddy Wang will be here to complain about B2 lol

I really like Ninjitsu Scorpion against these Chars/Variations:

-Kung Jin/Bojitsu
-Mileena/Piercing
-Erron Black/Outlaw
-Kotal Kahn/ War God
-Johnny Cage/A-list
​

 

[learis1]

@itz My Call
@learis1
I'm not so sure that's a glitch. If your opponent tries to jump out and the F2 snags them the launch/float will be altered.

Well whether it's a glitch or not it definitely hampers a lot of potential ninjutsu has for scoring damage and mixups. I don't see a reason why it should give a lower float just because you caught someone in the air with it.

@itz My Call
As far as those strings go I think the damage is fine. You'll be using the throw in your setups more anyway. Not to mention that F4, 2 has a great hard knockdown setup on hit. There are other things better than damage.

There's definitely better things than damage, but damage itself is still significant. These strings are of very low damage, and they're all ninjutsu has to safely attack the opponent when he's meterless. They're not solely used for setups. I use these strings in footsie and scramble situations as well. I just wish there was a slightly better payoff for landing them.

@itz My Call
My only complaint is the damage scaling on B2. It really shouldn't be like that but I'm pretty sure @Eddy Wang will be here to complain about B2 lol

Yeah, believe it or not b2 scaling doesn't really bother me. If I ever land b2, it's sole purpose is for a low damage combo that leads into a vortex situation. But I agree, the damage is still unecessarily low. That's the only main weakness ninjutsu has. Very low damage unless you're in a punish situation or score a hit off a vortex situation. He should have slightly more damage off his neutral string situations.

 

[OutworldKeith]

@learis1
F2, B2, JK xx TP 2,1 xx Spear will still allow you to combo if the float is low.

Those strings are all safe and knock the opponent at least half screen on hit. Resetting the situation back to neutral, and putting Scorp at a distance where he's effective. His damage comes from good spacing, whiff punishing, and mix ups. He can't have it all.

B2 scaling is the problem but again the character has to have some weakness.

 

[Triplswing]

You can still get some above-average damage from b2, I think the damage penalty is more than worth the absurd range that it offers. IIRC you can get something like a 38% 1 bar that ends with a standing TP (+18), which any other character would be happy to have.

I imagine if there were a better way to space besides walking then ninjutsu would be higher tier. But that's just my Tekken-esque thinking.

 

[SaSSolino]

the f2 should be an overhead. looks like it after all, it's also safe and faster than f4.

 

[Eddy Wang]

The range of B2 is great but is full combo punishable on block by any character. While others asks for buffs as a freakin shopping list, all i ask is that Ninjutsu B2 should do 2% more damage and start scaling from there which would lead his meterless damage close to same level kung jin does meterless. That is the only thing Ninjutsu needs right now, to do a little bit more damage.

A variation that is supposed be fighting with swords to do damage, yet some point out standing 2 for regular damage. LOL
You can play scorpion without any variation and do 30% meterless, which is much better than using ninjutsu B2

 

[Triplswing]

The range of B2 is great but is full combo punishable on block by any character. While others asks for buffs as a freakin shopping list, all i ask is that Ninjutsu B2 should do 2% more damage and start scaling from there which would lead his meterless damage close to same level kung jin does meterless. That is the only thing Ninjutsu needs right now, to do a little bit more damage.

A variation that is supposed be fighting with swords to do damage, yet some point out standing 2 for regular damage. LOL
You can play scorpion without any variation and do 30% meterless, which is much better than using ninjutsu B2

Not gonna dispute you on that but can every character can punish b2 at tip range? I mean I wouldn't know, I might toy with it later.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Not gonna dispute you on that but can every character can punish b2 at tip range? I mean I wouldn't know, I might toy with it later.

From what I've tested B2 is still negative whatever no matter how you space it. Not the case for F2 though.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Not gonna dispute you on that but can every character can punish b2 at tip range? I mean I wouldn't know, I might toy with it later.

Anyone with an advancing 15 frames reversal can punish.
Any backdash chasing string that has a 14 frames startup at least will also punish it.

 

[itz My Call]

I think f2 being an overhead would be all kinds of silly.

Half screen safe armor breaking overhead launcher

Let that soak in

Anyway i know the ninjitsu strings are mostly safe. I guess i was specifically talking about how the b3,2,f2 string is worse

 

[OutworldKeith]

I think f2 being an overhead would be all kinds of silly.

Half screen safe armor breaking overhead launcher

Let that soak in

Anyway i know the ninjitsu strings are mostly safe. I guess i was specifically talking about how the b3,2,f2 string is worse

Would be kind of OP.

I totally agree. B3, 2, F2 is safe in his other variations. It also offers a hard knockdown on hit.

 

[wa_black]

Standing 1 are only true anti air? Anti airing with f2 and b2 (because it moves you forward) leaves a gap where the opponent jump in. Uppercut doesn't seem to have enough to horizontal range to compete the range of jump in attacks. If njp 1/2 was was a few frames faster, then we could just instant that to stop opponents from jumping. On that note, njp kinda sucks. It looks like it's job was to aa because it's range is horizontal over being vertical and doesn't have a lot of active frames to come down on the opponent, but I feel it should be faster to aa. I've tried to aa with it, but it only seems to work if they jump while i'm in the air and I don't think that I just should be committing to jumps if I'm trying to control space.

Would be kind of OP.

I totally agree. B3, 2, F2 is safe in his other variations. It also offers a hard knockdown on hit.

b3,2,f2 to should have less knockback, so that the first hit of f2 could connect on their wake up.

 

[Triplswing]

I've said it before. Scorpion's d2 is a decent anti-air. The hitbox is surprisingly big, and even reaches behind him a little, making it good for crossover jumps.

 

[Eddy Wang]

When someone gets closer to you, relying on your normals to anti-air is pure garbage, scorpion ninjutsu is only good to anti-air from far distances, up close the best option you have across all variations, is to control the landing and ex teleport on reaction even against crossups to trip guard them other wise you will trade a hit unless you're playing with hellfire.

 

[Ze Dingo]

2nd hit of F2 as an overhead and better scaling on B2 and Ninjutsu is good to go.

 

[wa_black]

2nd hit of F2 as an overhead and better scaling on B2 and Ninjutsu is good to go.

2nd would be reactable. Slower than f4. F2 [1] comes out the 15th frame, but the f2 [2] come use to come out 10 frames later. Before the patch that was the 26th frame, hopefully it's the 25th now, otherwise rare ability to blow up wakes was nerfed by a frame.

It would have to be the first hit. I don't want to it to be an over heard because I think that would make ninjutsu REALLY good (not overbearing). I just want him to be solid. If they could just give him the proper tools to control the neutral, I'd be happy.

I just think that we're paying more risk for moves like f2, b2, and b4 (useless... literally). When other character get what are variation pays for for virtually free, see kung jin.

I think they should make f2 [1] hit at the same range as f2 [2], lower the start up on njp, and they should make so of his combo enders normals because I find that I have to get really predictable in the neutral game because I don't have that many options. I think ninjutsu needs a good move for pressure to catch opponents trying to jump out. I find that especially after the opponent blocks something, f2 can be too slow and b2 is a risk.

 

[kencheese]

alot of people complain about scorpion, iam new to mk series always played slow stealth games, the people that complain about scorp, just need to go back to training mode and enter his moves and learn how to counter attack and how to properly block, i play a kang and had a hard time against him on single player version on game setting of medium or higher, so i went back to school, and entered his moves in the AI and learned how to beat him constantly on game settings of medium to very hard, i found after a normal move or a spec move or a spec move kombo he likes to teleport/kick or spear or slide trip(causes damage, dont know why but it does) and i found by crouching and blocking immediatley has just about neutralized his effects on me, when i dont crouch block he always nails me, just a simple idea to try, it works on all three variations give it a try, but keep in mind iam just a noob, so if you have a better suggestion please let me know, and by the way after he hits you while crouch/block and can do a punish or a block breaker thanks for reading scott

 

[wa_black]

alot of people complain about scorpion, iam new to mk series always played slow stealth games, the people that complain about scorp, just need to go back to training mode and enter his moves and learn how to counter attack and how to properly block, i play a kang and had a hard time against him on single player version on game setting of medium or higher, so i went back to school, and entered his moves in the AI and learned how to beat him constantly on game settings of medium to very hard, i found after a normal move or a spec move or a spec move kombo he likes to teleport/kick or spear or slide trip(causes damage, dont know why but it does) and i found by crouching and blocking immediatley has just about neutralized his effects on me, when i dont crouch block he always nails me, just a simple idea to try, it works on all three variations give it a try, but keep in mind iam just a noob, so if you have a better suggestion please let me know, and by the way after he hits you while crouch/block and can do a punish or a block breaker thanks for reading scott

You said scorpion, but you didn't mention which scorpion. There are three different scorpions that are nothing a like with the their exceptions of universal attacks.

 

[kencheese]

You said scorpion, but you didn't mention which scorpion. There are three different scorpions that are nothing a like with the their exceptions of universal attacks.

works for me on all three variants, i found for me after a normal move, a kombo move, a special move or a smk, i immediately did a crouch block and let him come to me, once he attacked me while still blocking i would do a hit breaker(assuming you have a full stamina bar) or do a fast start up reversal=special move, or an even faster basic move(i use liu kang so b2 works great, remember it takes one frame to come out of block for a basic move so your basic move must be 1 frame less than the cancel adv of his attack, if you use a spec move=reversal it is the same or less), this works great on medium difficulty against scorp., i have done a lot of reading and am now to understand that hard and very hard, the AI actually read your inputs to counter attack everything you do, so you need to attack and then immediately block a lot and perform fast reversals, so my idea is along those lines to get you prepared to play against all character on hard or very hard, go google these words; " how hard is hard and very hard difficulties for mkx", and you will read advise that on hard and very hard that you need to block a ton and reveral a ton inorder to beat the AI because the AI on these settings are programmed to read you attack and directional button inputs as you are doing them so as to immediately counter you move, but you need to input your buttons much cleaner than in medium or below, or you will get bad habits which is not good for online spammers