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Fear of the Patching Style (AKA Why it Might Not Make Sense to Upplay)

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
Here we are, Tanya is set to be released (or is already released for some), and we are left with a ledger of hot fix notes, and I can't help but notice a trend here: The character communities that were the most vocal and consistent have received the most positive change. Whether it was the Kitana community from Day 0 squawking that their character was bottom 1 free, or @Pig Of The Hut's constant assertions that Kenshi was not even allowed to play the same game as the rest of the cast, or non-War God Kotal Kahns (shoutouts to @RYX) complaining that their character was never even given a fair chance to use his tools before they were ruined, it appears to me that the more communities vocalize themselves the greater positive influence there was on their characters in the recent hot fix.

"But juice, you're so handsome! Also, what's your point?"

I'm not here to argue that any of these communities were wrong about their characters prior to these changes, but rather to examine whether or not there is any disadvantage to constantly mentioning how short-handed your character is versus the cast at large. It would appear that any impact at all would be recorded as positive changes with no kind of negative repercussion connected to loudly and proudly asserting that your character needs help. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all, and some lesser used variations with less vocal communities have yet to be touched.

Now, I know what you're thinking:

"juice, you don't believe that Paulo or NRS are actively concerned with what is being posted on the forums or in stream chats, twitter, etc, do you? That myth died with the low gunshots normalization!"

Even if that were true (once again, I have no concrete evidence to prove or disprove that there is any sort of correlation), what difference does it make? If there is an active influence, you can theoretically help create a more powerful version of your character in the long run. If there isn't, you lose nothing in the long run and have your bets hedged, just in case.

"Well, Mr. Thinks-He-Knows-A-Lot, if you don't have any proof, where is your theory coming from?"

This all occurred to me as I was reading the hot fix notes and recalled the perhaps cautionary Grundy/Bane debacle during IGAU's patching phase, where many (myself as a Grundy main included) consistently asserted that the character was in no need of being buffed, and was capable of fighting the cast at large. Meanwhile, the entire community called Bane a laughing stock even as he was buffed each patch, leaving us the final definitive edition of the game with a terrifying monster in Bane and a garbage could-have-been-good character in Grundy which may (keyword: may) have been due to the fact that the community was vocal about Bane being bad and Grundy being good early on.

Thusly, I conclude: Is there truly any advantage to upplaying a character during the early phases of an NRS game? If you play a bad character, you could get them the help they need to compete. If you play a good character, you could make them a great one. Or you could cause nothing at all to happen, but why take a chance and be left with a lesser character permanently by the time NRS moves on to their next project?
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
I can agree. The Reptile community is mostly quiet about his problems (lack of AA, solid projectiles and having slow normals) and he didn't get anything that would fix at the very least one of those problems.

The Takahashi family and Mileena were known to have slow pokes and received buffs to them. Reptile didn't. He was on the same level as them and yet was left behind because we were not vocal enough about it.

Buff Reptile
 
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THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I can agree. The Reptile community is mostly quiet about his problems (lack of AA, solid projectiles and slow normals) and he didn't get anything that would fix at the very least one of those problems.

The Takahashi family and Mileena were known to have slow pokes and received buffs to them. Reptile didn't. He was on the same level as them and yet was left behind because we were not vocal enough about it.

Buff Reptile
Reptile has dash. It is 8 frames. It was the same ordeal in MK9...he gave up fast pokes for that move. Which is fine.

He has weaknesses. That's not a bad thing.
 

BloodyNights

"My kunai will find it's mark."
Pretty sure if the characters were not bad, and people made false complaints people would call them out, telling them how bs they were. But they are not bs, and it isn't up playing. Be vocal if you want. Have valid reasons, and if they are valid you might get your character help. If you say your character is fine they probably won't pay as much attention to it. But if you downplay you will be called out. So be vocal only when you have legitimate concerns.

No one is gonna Buff Bojutsu Kung Jin, or Thunder God Raiden, when they are steam rolling. You can't downplay them and not get blown up.

But you also can't up play characters who are crap either. So voicing your concerns is a smart idea. Though I do gotta wonder if NRS is even listening to what the community said. For example Kitana players said they wanted fans to hit mid, and F2 to be an overhead string. They didn't get that at all. To some the buff wasn't even that big of a change, or was unwanted due to the nerf that came with it.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Reptile has dash. It is 8 frames. It was the same ordeal in MK9...he gave up fast pokes for that move. Which is fine.

He has weaknesses. That's not a bad thing.
His Elbow Dash in MK9 was 6f, it was equivalent to the fastest normals in the game and since there were no trades, he would win all of the time.

MKX has trades and the fastest pokes are still 6f while Elbow Dash gets taken down 2 frames slower.. He can't safely counterpoke against pressure-heavy characters exactly like the problems with Mileena and the Takahashi family. Mileena has more mix-ups and better zoning than Reptile yet she gets a buff to her poke and Reptile doesn;t.

I'm not saying that Reptile shouldn't have a weakness, I'm just saying that it's kind of unfair to be left behind.

EDIT: By the way, Mileena's Roll is also at 8f start-up and even low-profiles and leads to full combo. Soo...Elbow Dash in comparison?
 
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Jb879212

40 Percent Punish
Yo this is the realest post ever. I'm not saying those characters deserved nerfs or buffs but at this juncture can we really label this a coincidence? Can you really act like characters with the most of attention aren't the earliest targets for nerfs and buffs?
 
Whats the best technique to get your character buffed? Get a reputable tournament to consistently bash your character on streams?
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
At the very least she has access to full combos from 50/50s on many of her strings. Reptile has...B2 and B3 corner pressure...yay...
Are you actually saying this? His overhead is 11 frames, and his low is about 15 frames if I'm not mistaking. This means he's "basically" a 50/50 character as I doubt our eyes could even react to such fast moves. He seems like a hard character to use, but I see the tools.

If you played Kitana you'd see differently about her changes.
B1 being faster is a step in the right direction but then they nerfed the low option off of it, for some reason nor I, nor any of the Kitana mains can see why.
It was a fair trade. B1 used to get intercepted everytime, now it's got a nice speed. Then they made B1, 4 slightly negative, at least still safe. I would have still preferred an overhead instead, but this will increase her pressure for sure.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
His Elbow Dash in MK9 was 6f, it was equivalent to the fastest normals in the game and since there were no trades, he would win all of the time.

MKX has trades and the fastest pokes are still 6f while Elbow Dash gets taken down 2 frames slower.. He can't safely counterpoke against pressure-heavy characters exactly like the problems with Mileena and the Takahashi family. Mileena has more mix-ups and better zoning than Reptile yet she gets a buff to her poke and Reptile doesn;t.

I'm not saying that Reptile shouldn't have a weakness, I'm just saying that it's kind of unfair to be left behind.

EDIT: By the way, Mileena's Roll is also at 8f start-up and even low-profiles and leads to full combo. Soo...Elbow Dash in comparison?
Most characters in the game have either 7 or 8 frame pokes. 6 frames is VERY uncommon, unlike MK9. Also, roll is an 8-frame launcher that travels nowhere near as fast as Reptile's dash. Not saying that's "fair", but that they serve different purposes entirely.

It's whatever...he isn't as fast as the rest, but that was also the case in MK9. That's how they want him designed, and it honestly works.

And with a bar, Reptile covers the damage from a 50/50 part. He's meter reliant, but he's been that way since MK9, as well.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
It was a fair trade. B1 used to get intercepted everytime, now it's got a nice speed. Then they made B1, 4 slightly negative, at least still safe. I would have still preferred an overhead instead, but this will increase her pressure for sure.
We'll see how it goes. It's not like we have the PREVIOUS patch, right?
 

armani

Mortal
It was a fair trade. B1 used to get intercepted everytime, now it's got a nice speed. Then they made B1, 4 slightly negative, at least still safe. I would have still preferred an overhead instead, but this will increase her pressure for sure.
I don't think it's a fair trade at all.
thankfully kitana now has a quick mid to counteract d1/d3 spammers but..
b1 has terrible range compared to a quicker and more reliable 1, and b14 being -4 eliminates any means of viable pressure. believe it or not doing b14 while your opponent is waking up was useful as hell because of the + frames on b14. if they left the low alone I don't think you would see any complaints coming from the Kitana mains. in the grand scheme of things kitana really doesn't need nerfs to anything.

and yeah b12 grants kitana +1 on block but it pushes the opponent back way too far. so pressure is basically nonexistent. not to mention her normals are already slow.

they either need to make her normals way faster, or give her way more block advantage on certain moves and strings. you can't have a ridiculously slow character with no block advantage.
 
What exactly is the point to the topic? I mean it's all so charmingly "eloquented" and everything but where's the meat? For this theory to work there would have to have been a "good" character made "great", please point me to that/those characters...

Otherwise you're just implying people should just stfu and take it if their character is bad. Jelly dressed in a suit is still jelly.