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What are your serious opinions about Mortal Kombat X?

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Part of it has do with nostalgia I guess. There was a magic to that game that made me want to main every character. In MKX, Mileena is the only character I like in this roster. Aside from that, I have to disagree when you say every aspect is improved in this game. Challenge Towers and Story Mode are just two things that pop out where I feel MKX failed.
1) I think nostalgia is a big factor for a lot of people. MK was the game that put the MK franchise back on the map. Furthermore, it served as the quintessential first experience with a serious fighter for a lot of MK fans. Of course, nostalgia aside, MKX mechanics/balance are in another league when compared to MK9. (I'm not even sure they are playing the same sport)

2) Challenge Towers and Story Mode are certainly debatable. I will admit that I preferred MK9's story over MKX's. But, the story is just part of the scenery to me. I care about gameplay . . . and I just don't see how MK9 even comes close to MKX in that department.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I think I can see Crimson's point slightly, but to me there a couple problems with the theory.

For one, and I certainly don't mean to insult Injustice or its players, Superman, Aquaman, Black Adam and maybe one to two others had a very simplistic and easy way to play the game, which was to hold back or walk forward and walk into a range where they had very long reaching mids or lows that often lead to a positive frame scenario or an extremely disadvantageous one for the player defending. And not only that, that was extremely evident from day -3 when people had the game early. Not only that, those characters were some of the very few who were actually fast on their feet in a game of extremely slow characters.

Now, the problem was that I think watching the game it would be easy to see characters sitting on downback about two character lengths way from each other and see "Oh look, they are patiently awaiting their opportunity to attack = they are playing a highly mindgame fueled footsie game", which I can understand. However, as a player, and I've played against some of the very best to play the game, that was not the case against the top tier characters. "Waiting" at midscreen was often the only course of action one could take against someone like early Superman because he so easily dominated that midscreen range, and he did it with one string that lead to a huge reward on hit and a mixup scenario on block. This was the same case for the other top tier characters at the time. 16 Bit is often fond of saying that playing Injustice made him feel like he was a bad player because he so often had to blindly dash or jump in and hope that his attack would hit, and especially in the early days of the game, this was probably the case for most of the cast.

Mortal Kombat X, as far as I've noticed, has a little more nuance in the midrange game due to an increased mobility across the whole cast and the return of throws that are truly strong at forcing an opponent off of block, amongst other things. Now, much like Injustice, many characters' normals that are often used for mixups are also some of their longest ranged, which can make it a bit annoying to defend against. Add to that, most characters get a really high reward for their attacks landing, so defensive play that involves poking with fireballs is a little more difficult than it could be in Injustice where characters did not move very well and could be pinned down a lot easier.

Is the strength between highly offensive and highly defensive invariably too skewed? Perhaps; it's far too early for me to commentate, but I will say that to me it's kind of like the opposite of IGAU, where holding back and making people walk into your offense was king. One thing I think people will eventually realize is that outside of jumpkicks (sometimes), a lot of jumpins have a difficult time connecting on crouching opponents unless done very late, which opens them up to AA a lot of the time. Much like in MK9, this is something people will probably get very good at stopping.

The problem I have with the argument Crimson brings up is to me it's unfair to expect a game that is very new to show a lot of nuance in the gameplay; people are playing for a lot of money and will play cheap to win, which often means avoiding that sort of nuanced game. While that may be an unfortunate thing to watch, it is a part of every game at the beginning of its life. In Injustice, the top guys did not dominate by jumping all over the place but by walking back and playing a dominating ground game, which probably gave it the allusion of a nuanced mid range game when it was actually anything but.

Just IMO, I actually really like the game currently, flaws and all. I didn't mind Injustice at all, but I felt there was a lot that would have been improved if characters had mobility options besides dash and jump and the top tiers weren't as overly dominating. MKX has solved one half of that equation, and while there are probably one or three that stand above the pack, there is a large list of characters whose game is extremely oppressive once it gets going, which is what you want in a strong character IMO. You can not avoid characters having flaws, you can not avoid bad matchups, but you can make the character be extremely good at what they do and make it difficult to avoid it if they get going, which I think MKX has done very well so far. At release, it's probably the best NRS effort yet, as they have seemingly avoided their usual pitfalls. Bravo to you for that, NRS.

(PS: the online stinks lol. Woops)
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
They said the same thing at the start for MK9 and Injustice. Either you don't remember or you are being unfair. There are display of footsies that has been shown in MKX. It might not look as develop like injustice or MK9 but that because the game just came out a month ago.
Most of the people saying that about Injustice Month 1 were people who played MK9 and then just dismissed Injustice as not requiring footsies due to the lack of dashblock, without really checking out or heavily playing the game.

Meanwhile, Aris was busy steamrolling people at WNF with some really great B1 footsies amidst his zoning, Rico cleaning up on the EC with b2 footsies, Denzell was cleaning up with GL footsies, Chris G's Green Arrow was winning with basic, clear fundmental gameplay. You couldn't actually watch the game and say that; it was simply a "talking point".

Now naturally, no game is 100% one thing or the other -- but I don't think it's inaccurate to acknowledgewhen a game is leaning very heavily in a certain direction by nature of the underlying mechanics.

I'd never go by "what people say" -- only by the actual gameplay itself.
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Most of the people saying that about Injustice Month 1 were people who played MK9 and then just dismissed Injustice as not requiring footsies due to the lack of dashblock, without really checking out or heavily playing the game.

Meanwhile, Aris was busy steamrolling people at WNF with B1 footsies amidst his zoning, Rico cleaning up on the EC with b2 footsies, Denzell was cleaning up with GL footsies, Chris G's Green Arrow was winning with basic, clear fundmental gameplay. You couldn't actually watch the game and say that; it was simply a "talking point".

Now naturally, no game is 100% one thing or the other -- but I don't think it's inaccurate to admit when a game is leaning very heavily in a certain direction by nature of the underlying mechanics.

I'd never go by "what people say" -- only by the actual gameplay itself.
It's funny because the arguments against MKX footsies is the exact same argument people made about Injustice not having any footsies in the 1st month. The fact that you keep pointing to it and the fact that you don't realize you are making the exact same arguments is the definition of irony.
 

ShaolinGunFu

Warrior
Every character has just 1 or 2 variations that most people play as, so having 3 for each instead of having a larger roster was a huge mistake. 2 variations would've been a better use of their time. Some of the best MK characters weren't included, and yet Jacquiline briggs and 40 hardly used variations were.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Every character has just 1 or 2 variations that most people play as, so having 3 for each instead of having a larger roster was a huge mistake. 2 variations would've been a better use of their time. Some of the best MK characters weren't included, and yet Jacquiline briggs and 40 hardly used variations were.
I agree some of the variations werent designed very well, but I dont think you could honestly expect them to make 70-80 viable variations.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Another big thing here is the idea that a game "lacks footsies". Ignoring the buzziness of the word itself, the argument is essentially that two players roll their faces across controllers until FINISH HIM. Which is certainly not the case, never will be, and is, frankly, an insult to the players playing. Could players be abusing tools that take less thinking than the other player? Possibly. But that does not mean that there isn't a game being played when the two players approach each other on the screen.

Also, to imply that Aris, Rico, and Chris G were the icons of early Injustice gameplay overlooks the extreme ease of use of walking backwards and using stage interactables, as well as how difficult it was to truly anti air and move in against a character with a long range move. Now of course, props to those guys; they knew what worked and they used it damn well. But it's also just as easy to see how they started to place less and less often as the game fleshed out and the game grew (and, to be fair, was patched) beyond that meta 1 gameplay dominance. Also ignores the fact that that meta 1 dominated the game to the end of the game's life, although the players playing were far more dedicated and knowledgeable about the game.
 

NorCalSamurai

Bacon Lettuce Tomato
It's an NRS game, so it's glitchy as fuck, has a terrible netcode, and no one in their right mind is predicting them to support it the way they should, but it's still fun. I enjoy the hell out of it, but idk if I'll continue to play competitively after EVO. Depends on how I do and how much I love Tekken 7.

As Aris might say, "50/50 city"
 
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Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Coming from Injustice and a brief year vacation with with USF4 I like this kind of mix between.

One problem people seem to hate is the grab system, although the 50/50 is kinda dumb on a hard read I can safely duck and full combo punish you.
My biggest complain so far is anti-airs playing GL and MMH then going to SF I've gotten used to 3 years of you jump you die simple, in MKX you jump kick me into 35% and a mixup because you cracked in the neutral game but my D2 or whatever meant to be designed anti air move decided to fail.

Please alter anti airs or make Ryu a DLC with a 3 frame dragon punch. I like consistency when my opponent breaks mentally and jumps in on me after I've been begging him to jump for 20 seconds.
 
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GeoffBedlam

Kombatant
Offline the game is great.

Online is absolute cancer and has nearly killed it for me. And this is coming from someone with the games logo tattooed on them. It's just so fucking infuriating to have to wait 20 minutes for a game (because fuck living in Australia), only to get beaten by online tactics that you can't punish because of the lag. Hell, I can't even connect properly to people in the same city as me.
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Coming from Injustice and a brief year vacation with with USF4 I like this kind of mix between.

One problem people seem to hate is the grab system, although the 50/50 is kinda dumb on a hard read I can safely duck and full combo punish you.
My biggest complain so far is anti-airs playing GL and MMH then going to SF I've gotten used to 3 years of you jump you die simple, in MKX you jump kick me into 35% and a mixup because you cracked in the neutral game but my D2 or whatever meant to be designed anti air move I decided to use failed.

Please alter anti airs or make Ryu a DLC with a 3 frame dragon punch. I like consistency when my opponent breaks mentally and jumps in on me after I've been begging him to jump for 20 seconds.
Backtrash. Trip Guard. Profit.

I kind of agree with you though, don't know why AAs seem to suck in most NRS games.
 

NoobHunter420

Scrub God Lord
is good, I like it.
I love and hate the pace of the matches
I won't be playing it has much as I did with injustice, but that was to be expected.
waiting for my girl tanya and tremor
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Enjoying it a lot. Online isn't great, but so long as I can land stuff and actually block some things, I'll be okay for the most part.
 

Game Scavenger

Rage is true power!
Story Mode
It's meh at best it has a lot of pointless flashbacks that don't amount to anything. Generic history repeats itself plot. New heroes basically run over all the veteran characters like their nothing. New villains don't get any real character development. Overall the story is rushed and highly unbelievable.

Multiplayer
Netcode is still NRS quality (bad). No skill based matchmaking system. Online is flooded with casuals so fighting online won't help you improve yourself.

Personal Opinion
Just Gamefly it and read the comic books for better story.
 
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Deyrax

Skarlet who ?
I have to correct some misinformation here. For one, no game has grabs that beat armor. That just wouldn't make sense if they do.
Any fast multi-hitting attacks break armor like in every game..
Equating multi-hit moves with armor breaking property ?
 

bumpyface

Mortal
I have to say that since it's release, MKX is the only game that I've been playing. That's not really saying much though as there aren't many games out on the next gen consoles that I'm interested in. I will say that I am a game head and I LOVE FIGHTERS. I've played pretty much all of em. My favorite fighter is TTT2. I also play SC5, and 4, but I play SF and KI.
The Good:
Pace and speed. This game plays fast and I like it.
Variety: I think that the 3 variations for each character was a brilliant idea.
Brutalities: To me, these are better than the fatalities and they're really nice when you do em in a combo.
Story: I think this is sometimes missed in fighters but NRS did an excellent job this time plus you get an additional story after beating the Tower with each character
Controls: Offline this shit plays nice. The controls are crisp and responsive.
The Bad:
ONLINE: What can be said about MKX online that hasn't already been said about race relations in America? It's a mess. The ping doesn't represent the connection quality properly, even with good connections there is still significant lag (which is expected). I think the way the combo system and button strings are set up makes it even more difficult to punish and connect combos online. I had this same issue with Injustice (didn't care for it) online but I will say MKX feels 2X better.
Fatalities: While some of the fatalities are nice and puts the characters special ability at work, some of them are just whack. IMO, Liu Kang's first fatality is meh. What's crazy is if you opt not to finish an opponent with Liu, he transforms into this beautiful fire dragon and shoots flames from his nostrils. Why the fuck is this not some sort of fatality?
Nerfs: I'm still upset about EB's neutral 2 getting nerfed when Scorpion can jump over my head all day teleporting and kicking ass for 30% damage w/o burning meter. I know NRS wants the game as balanced as possible but I think it will always be characters that are stronger than others. Ok, I'll quit crying about EB's nerf.
Overall, this game is nice. I give it a 8/10 any and all day.
 

Deyrax

Skarlet who ?
I guess I should have specified fast multi-hitting moves but I kind of thought that was implied.
....Multi-hit moves don't break armor, they just punish the move if the second hit is fast enough to hit before the armor move hits you (assuming it's Super Armor with 1 hit). "Armor break" breaks the armor on the initial hit, so the armor move doesn't come out at all.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
....Multi-hit moves don't break armor, they just punish the move if the second hit is fast enough to hit before the armor move hits you (assuming it's Super Armor with 1 hit). "Armor break" breaks the armor on the initial hit, so the armor move doesn't come out at all.
Does any move like that actually exist in MK though? Because when people say armor breaking moves they usually refer to multi-hitting moves.

Although I do love to argue semantics so I will concede that I had the wrong definition. Now I know, thanks :)
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
I love the game so far, feels fresh and I haven't put this much time into a game since forever. I'm only gonna go over gameplay aspects that I find bizarre/odd coz I love everything else in the game.

There's a few design quirks that kinda bother me, like how the blockstun feels really odd.
A lot of the Moves that I know are unsafe put you in a weird blockstun animation which make the timing to punish stuff or armor through gaps really odd. Labbing it up fixes this problem coz you get a better feel of the timing and what moves work best for the situation but I find it odd that I have to do that in this game for like every move almost even when I know the move is like -10 and I have a move quick enough to punish but I still can't get it on the fly. I've never had this kind of issue in other games.

Another thing is how the armor was handled. Like I get that they didn't want characters to be hella free to wake-up and pressure but fuck man, giving almost every EX move armor where some of them launch for 35%+ combos and are safe or barely unsafe is insane.
Not to mention some characters have like 4 armored moves so it becomes a stupid guessing game just trying to bait one of them. Even if you read the armored move it's so hard to avoid them or beat them.
I still don't understand why throws get beat by armor too, like I get that it's a Capcom concept that even if you have armor you can just throw but it makes sense as opposed to armor not giving a fuck about any move in the game and rippin through everything.

The vortexes ugh... ok I understand that pretty much every game has something like that now but the ones in this game are just full on derp. Too many moves restand you in this game imo which makes it easy to keep this nonsense going and loop to it till death with a good amount of characters.
Like the Quan Chi vortex for example is flat out mindless, it's so stupidly easy to do and blocking it is so unforgiving, not to mention even if you block it he can just do EX rune and attempt it again, like wow such skill..
I don't mind strong tactics but there's no real skill or reading involved in just trance s4 low bat+ b2 into trance and repeat... makes me wonder if stuff like that is how they intended the characters/game to be played.

The variations is another thing, that's one of the things I LOVE about this game but it's disappointing seeing how they put more focus/attention on some variations and others were like yeah we'll just give them this one gimmick or one thing and be done with it. It's like they lost heart after a while where they started strong with the early characters.

Last thing is anti-airs, they need to either go the arcsys route and have moves that are head invulnerable to anti-air properly or adjust the hitboxes on jump-ins coz you can't anti-air for shit with most characters in this game.


I'm pretty sure the garbage online has been mentioned a million times so that's a given. I've honesty had a better time online playing MKvsDC >___>;
I still don't understand how you can release a game in 2015 with the worst netcode in any fighter like, ever lol.


TL;DR I love the game and will be playing it for a long time, but there's a fair amount of things that I don't exactly like. No game is perfect tho so..
 
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Deyrax

Skarlet who ?
Does any move like that actually exist in MK though? Because when people say armor breaking moves they usually refer to multi-hitting moves.

Although I do love to argue semantics so I will concede that I had the wrong definition. Now I know, thanks :)
In MK, no, but they do in SF. Just a clarification, since you said "in all games". Maybe people who said there were no AB moves in MKX meant those kind of moves ?
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Another big thing here is the idea that a game "lacks footsies". Ignoring the buzziness of the word itself, the argument is essentially that two players roll their faces across controllers until FINISH HIM. Which is certainly not the case, never will be, and is, frankly, an insult to the players playing. Could players be abusing tools that take less thinking than the other player? Possibly. But that does not mean that there isn't a game being played when the two players approach each other on the screen.
I hgear you, but I think you're reading too deeply into this -- it's not that footsies don't exist, as technically in any game where two characters can move back and forth with ranged normals it's possible to play footsies. Rather, it's that other tools are stronger to such a drastic degree that the importance of footsies is greatly diminished. Yes there is a neutral game where players have to approach each other, but in MKX many times that neutral game prioritzes things like Raiden running up into f12b2, Cassie running up into b12, D'Vorah just connecting with f22 from range or asking you to hold f112 into 50/50., Sonya divekicking in with scant recovery, etc.

Then once someone playing a decent character does connect, the corner carry is often so great that you're nearly out of the midscreen neutral all together.

As to your point about guys like Art and Chris G yes -- but once they started to fade, guys like 16 Bit and Theo (also with very strong footsies and fundamentals) were taking over. In addition, the people doing better later were labbing the game hard, grinding matchups each week; while guys who primarily play other titles like Chris and Art were still playing, but not necessarily as invested in the game. It's apples to oranges, but if people want to talk about early gameplay, around this time in 2013 the Top 4 of UFGT was comprised of Chris G, Wound Cowboy, Arturo and Slips. It'd be hard to fit more footsies and strong fundamentals into a Top 4 than that.

No doubt this year's Top 4 will be great players as well, but I'd still expect the nature of the gameplay itself to be vastly different based on how this game is laid out. A good player will make ample use of the best tools available to them, and right now the 50/50s, the run, and the baked-in ranged-starter strings are the strongest tools in this game.
 
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