General/Other - Takeda Kano B1 abuse vs Takeda

[FlappyDaniel]

Then learn how to play him correctly. As was stated, he has long range normals so you need to play a medium to long range footsie game until you can open up for a combo. Don't let my Black Dragon ass get close in the first place. Shit I've been laughing reading this because so many people deal with B1 just fine online, I feel scared to throw it out half the time. and yeah, in Cyber he wouldn't have any great options, just 112 and 2,F4. which is shit choices.

edit: also yeah, backdash has invincible frames remember guys, use them to your advantage.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

The people don't wake up with DPs as much (especially in 3rd strike with the parry system). Only SF (main numbered series) that you see many wake-up/reversal DPs in tournament play is SF4.

FADC backdash is not (in most cases). Plus, you can EX DP FADC to make it safe.

Thank you for confirming what I said on the 1st page

peolpe rip dps in ST

 

[FlappyDaniel]

yo, nobody wakeup DPs in ST, not if they want to live.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

yo, nobody wakeup DPs in ST, not if they want to live.

there are a handful of option selects in the game that you need to reversal to get out of

 

[SaltShaker]

What is Kano supposed to do without b1 in Cyber? Standing 2,f4? F4? B31? Please, someone tell me.

Cancel plane tickets to tournaments.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Then learn how to play him correctly. As was stated, he has long range normals so you need to play a medium to long range footsie game until you can open up for a combo. Don't let my Black Dragon ass get close in the first place. Shit I've been laughing reading this because so many people deal with B1 just fine online, I feel scared to throw it out half the time. and yeah, in Cyber he wouldn't have any great options, just 112 and 2,F4. which is shit choices.

edit: also yeah, backdash has invincible frames remember guys, use them to your advantage.

So I'm trying to stay out of this thread, but so many people are making uninformed statements that it's difficult.

Please take the time to read posts and look at matchups before rushing to add your voice to a thread. Zyphox clearly stated that this is a matchup in which he has to work his way in due to knives. The entire match involves him trying to get close, through the zoning, so he can do some damage.

Even if you didn't read the posts, you'd know this if you spent 5 minutes in the lab with both characters or had actually played (or just seen) the matchup.

Saying "lol just play footsies bro, your normals are long" makes absolutely no sense, and it's indicative of the problems with people rushing to jump into threads all over the place.

 

[Solid]

see i'm happy to keep kano the way he is, but why not give characters that get raped by it a chance? he can still b1, b13, b1, b1 etc even IF i can poke out with ONE move, that and you can also counter poke and ARMOR THROUGH MY POKE!!! thats all im asking for, dont nerf kano, just give me ONE viable option. inb4 yeah you can armor bro, again.

Improve your spacing, you are playing Takeda after all. And NO Takeda shouldn't have a 6 frame anything. If you let them get in they deserve their pressure. Then is where you have to make the decision to armor or not to armor. I don't see the need to complain about Kano's B1 when the aforementioned should be your gameplan against most of the cast.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Yeah you're right, my bad. Saying to just "lrn yer character bro" is a little harsh and misguided, especially if I don't actually have any pertinent advice for doing so.

 

[Tom Brady]

Nerf ice clone. Too dominant in the corner against certain characters who die because they can't get out.

Every character has at least one variation that gets out. lets stop this garbage.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Not derpy post... forward moving mid 9f attack that is 0 on block and can be repeated forever with little consequence? THAT is derpy. Cyber Kano is MKX Kabal but you can't duck his projectiles. I'm not saying his knives are a problem at all, they are fine... but b1 has to be fixed. Just make it -1 and we're good.

Forward moving 9f mid with 0 consequence?!

Kano confirmed MK9 JC

 

[Zyphox]

Improve your spacing, you are playing Takeda after all. And NO Takeda shouldn't have a 6 frame anything. If you let them get in they deserve their pressure. Then is where you have to make the decision to armor or not to armor. I don't see the need to complain about Kano's B1 when the aforementioned should be your gameplan against most of the cast.

spacing is not my issue, ask anyone who has played me. i beat CDjr in a tournament set while he was using jax, do you think we were playing up close? but in the Kano MU its different when the character can zone and have braindead rushdown. also getting in takeda is one of the easiest things to do in this game, how many characters have safe ways to approach with armor or moves that advance from half screen? this game is rushdown oriented, look at how fast jacqui and sonya are when running, with multiple options to get in. in the long run when people learn how to exploit takeda's many holes and get in really easily what will become of the character? do you want a shitty low tier character or one with ONE fucking additional option to safely escape some bullshit while not completely nerfing kano's B1?

 

[BillStickers]

i dont know why d2 is working for me and not working for you. its still not making any sense to me. even though the frame data is different, move is still 0 on block and b1 is a frame faster and d2 is a frame faster, so it really shouldn't make a difference.

You can't mash it and the duration of the move is shorter on hit (i.e. You can spam it more quickly on hit but the same frequency of inputs on block will result in half the frequency of successful b1s). I recorded myself on PC backdashing and punishing Kano with 112 (Edit: and once I get a free second I'll upload it).

@Zyphox just like Kano can't mash b1, you can't mash backdash or you'll get hit. The trick is to unblock as soon as you block a b1, then backdash right before the next b1 hits. The better your timing, the further away takeda dashes away, allowing for more time to get 112 out.

In about 30 minutes of practice I was able to blow up this tactic, so just imagine how viable it will be 2 years from now. Please consider the longevity of the game before complaining about something being difficult to execute.

 

[SaltShaker]

Every character has at least one variation that gets out. lets stop this garbage.

Do they? Every character?

You started it by supporting the anti-B1 crusade. I would think you of all people wouldn't add fuel to the fire after all the unwarranted heat your character has and still is taking.

 

[Zyphox]

You can't mash it and the duration of the move is shorter on hit (i.e. You can spam it more quickly on hit but the same frequency of inputs on block will result in half the frequency of successful b1s). I recorded myself on PC backdashing and punishing Kano with 112.

@Zyphox just like Kano can't mash b1, you can't mash backdash or you'll get hit. The trick is to unblock as soon as you block a b1, then backdash right before the next b1 hits. The better your timing, the further away takeda dashes away, allowing for more time to get 112 out.

In about 30 minutes of practice I was able to blow up this tactic, so just imagine how viable it will be 2 years from now. Please consider the longevity of the game before complaining about something being difficult to execute.

never said it was hard, and your not getting the point, do i backdash in the corner? its braindead man just accept it, if i have no meter and am corner by kano, besides armor and d2 what are my options? i get it, don't get put in that position in the first place right? or maybe the move is braindead and one measly little buff to a d1 that leads into absolutely nothing that can also be baited and punished by the kano payer with armor or counter poked into more pressure isn't justifiable? that is literally all i'm asking for.

 

[SaltShaker]

BUFF B1.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Several characters suffer from Kano's b1 too. Quan Chi comes to mind...

Yup, I was just about to post this. I played lordofthefly on xbl and he had a very good Kano, and whenever he used b1 to pressure my quan, I had a lot of difficulty doing anything. Then again, you have to take lag input into consideration as well, but I could tell the move was really good.

 

[BillStickers]

never said it was hard, and your not getting the point, do i backdash in the corner? its braindead man just accept it, if i have no meter and am corner by kano, besides armor and d2 what are my options? i get it, don't get put in that position in the first place right? or maybe the move is braindead and one measly little buff to a d1 that leads into absolutely nothing that can also be baited and punished by the kano payer with armor or counter poked into more pressure isn't justifiable? that is literally all i'm asking for.

Speeding takeda's d1 up by 4 frames is not a measly little buff. And I seriously don't understand why you're so surprised about characters having a strong corner game. Remember injustice?

 

[JoeX0rX]

never said it was hard, and your not getting the point, do i backdash in the corner? its braindead man just accept it, if i have no meter and am corner by kano, besides armor and d2 what are my options? i get it, don't get put in that position in the first place right? or maybe the move is braindead and one measly little buff to a d1 that leads into absolutely nothing that can also be baited and punished by the kano payer with armor or counter poked into more pressure isn't justifiable? that is literally all i'm asking for.

I think a majority of the cast if they have no meter and are stuck in the corner are in a lot of trouble.

 

[Zyphox]

I hate threads like this, your normals have the best range in the game, therefore having a bad close up game.

Use guard Breaks back dash. Please stop making threads like this.

i'm 100% certain you failed reading class in grade school, that or you just did not read one thing said in this thread, you literally just listed two options that are not viable. you USE GORO you can watch me do b21 and just ex punchwalk for FREE and you are saying something about having ONE string that has the farthest reach in the game but don't say ONE peep about the negatives of the move? Fuck.My.Life.

 

[Chrishaspads]

You can backdash midscreen, I don't think you can confirm from just b1 into a combo, and if he tries another one you can whiff punish. He can still do other shit though if he confirms it's hit, and you're still fucked in the corner. This character does need a proper poke though.

b13 2+4 mb, or b13 db1 both lead into a full combo

 

[Zyphox]

Speeding takeda's d1 up by 4 frames is not a measly little buff. And I seriously don't understand why you're so surprised about characters having a strong corner game. Remember injustice?

does this game look like INJ?? let me stop, i'm going to pull a bill menutis and show all of tym exactly how to beat Takeda since i don't want to get away with murder any more.

 

[Funkpanda]

Seriously? This is what we're complaining about?? With allllll the bullshit in this game, B1? Kano's basically only good pressure normal? All he has is B1 and knives in Cyber. Some characters have a multitude of like 7-8 overpowered things in one variation, yet we talkin about B1??? Nerf B1 and what do you get? A GARBAGE USELESS CHARACTER for the next 3 years just like MK9 Kano.

What do you want him to do? Lunging B2 with 100 frames startup? Grab as the only option? What would he do with a slower or high B1 with no overhead, other than get UTTERLY DESTROYED at close range??? What's the suggestion? How do you nerf B1 without making Cyber Kano completely unviable? Unless you're lowering the frames to make it an OVERHEAD as a solution then leave it the fuck alone so we can actually play a character that can win matches.

I dont care how much I play this game right now. If B1 gets nerfed because of bullshit like this and I'm free to get blown up any time the ENTIRE ROSTER gets within close range I'm done with this game faster than I ran to pick it up.

This this this. If they change this move in any way other than the way you suggested - this character variation is dead. It will probably kill Commando Kano as well.

This fucking community - seriously. People will complain about Kano's B1 but Raiden's f12b2 in Thunder God goes under the radar.

 

[roosTakk]

This is why i dropped takeda

@dribirut

 

[FlappyDaniel]

This this this. If they change this move in any way other than the way you suggested - this character variation is dead. It will probably kill Commando Kano as well.

This fucking community - seriously. People will complain about Kano's B1 but Raiden's f12b2 in Thunder God goes under the radar.

Commando would still sorta be ok, but barely worth it.

 

[Phosferrax]

b13 2+4 mb, or b13 db1 both lead into a full combo

They both end his pressure though.