NRS.. PLEASE fix the input drop bug!!!

[Robotic]

Well.. I hope that gets fixed too then, because in every other fighting game in existence if your holding down during hit or block stun or recovery and are mashing a button you get the crouched version. I do 111 with Scorp, and am holding down during the last 1 and mashing 4 but I don't get a d+4 but a standing 4 and I lose the match for it. Its just awful.

Its contradictory for NRS to have had such a huge negative edge window to help with special move inputs but have such precision with directional inputs. Its not intentional of course, I just hope they fix it.

I'm with you there. I've lost countless rounds with Cyber Satan because I did the IATU too fast and a regular one came out - instant death.

Maybe we're jumping to conclusions, but it seems that the 1 frame direction issue could be the catalyst of all of this. If that's the case and it hasn't been addressed, maybe NRS just never knew about it and didn't really explore it further. THAT FUCKIN SUCKS IF TRUE.

 

[GGA soonk]

That's the thing, Slips, it's not precision. You can mash d1 all you want and it should come out, as shown in the 2nd vid. The issue is there seems to be 1 frame that drops the down input when another button is pressed on that frame. I'll test more with what you just gave(buffer 111 then try to d4 after) and that should tell us a bit more.

 

[GGA soonk]

Well.. I hope that gets fixed too then, because in every other fighting game in existence if your holding down during hit or block stun or recovery and are mashing a button you get the crouched version. I do 111 with Scorp, and am holding down during the last 1 and mashing 4 but I don't get a d+4 but a standing 4 and I lose the match for it. Its just awful.

Its contradictory for NRS to have had such a huge negative edge window to help with special move inputs but have such precision with directional inputs. Its not intentional of course, I just hope they fix it.

Ok so I didn't record, but it's the same thing. You're just catching it on that one frame and getting a standing 4.

I only tested for a few minutes but I cannot confirm that this affects special moves. The only thing I noticed so far is the game isn't lenient with inputs, so if you push 3 before the F in df3 the move won't come out, and if you happen to hit the 3 on that one frame, then you get standing 3. Not saying anyone is inputting commands incorrectly, just what I've noticed so far. I'll test more later.

 

[catch22]

i really dont think is a bug, i think is the way is being done, mine as you can tell, works flawlessly. and am doing them right, cus they work.
soonk, your UP video is odd tho, maybe a faulty buton on the hit box? i dont know, but shit works fine here.
and am sorry, but to now at this date, blame 90% of your loses to this? that just seems like a copout to me.
but then again, i press down and the the attack button like it should, works wonders xD

 

[GGA soonk]

i really dont think is a bug, i think is the way is being done, mine as you can tell, works flawlessly. and am doing them right, cus they work.
soonk, your UP video is odd tho, maybe a faulty buton on the hit box? i dont know, but shit works fine here.
and am sorry, but to now at this date, blame 90% of your loses to this? that just seems like a copout to me.
but then again, i press down and the the attack button like it should, works wonders xD

video=youtube;JoMyufxexd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoMyufxexd0[/video]
video=youtube;6OoNEPgm2rQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OoNEPgm2rQ[/video]
video=youtube;bBsqJyNEmfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBsqJyNEmfQ[/video]
video=youtube;LVFWtgGStrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVFWtgGStrk[/video]

Dude... faulty button on my hitbox? Do you see the game showing UP UP UP UP and my character doing nothing? Faulty game, not faulty button.

Good job uploading private videos. Here you go, though. Slips gave me the idea to hold down for a short time before hitting 1, and I did that and it did a standing 1. I already showed that instant D1s worked, and I told you that I was holding down the entire time I was getting the input bug. If you can't do it, that's fine, it's a 1 frame window. Others have had it happen, others have done it, and I gave video proof. If you want me to show you, in person, at Season's Beatings, I'd be more than happy, and I can probably do it on whatever gaming peripheral you use, too.

I assume you weren't talking to me about blaming losses on this, since I never did that.

 

[catch22]

Dude... faulty button on my hitbox? Do you see the game showing UP UP UP UP and my character doing nothing? Faulty game, not faulty button.

Good job uploading private videos. Here you go, though. Slips gave me the idea to hold down for a short time before hitting 1, and I did that and it did a standing 1. I already showed that instant D1s worked, and I told you that I was holding down the entire time I was getting the input bug. If you can't do it, that's fine, it's a 1 frame window. Others have had it happen, others have done it, and I gave video proof. If you want me to show you, in person, at Season's Beatings, I'd be more than happy, and I can probably do it on whatever gaming peripheral you use, too.

I assume you weren't talking to me about blaming losses on this, since I never did that.

lol hello, yeah, dumb ass me lol, but is weird tho bout your jump...that i cant explain.
the rest tho? like you said, 1 frame window and i dont ever miss it...i dont consider that a bug tho, and no i was not talking to you about the loses, some one else did.
again, i never have this problem at all, and i know for a fact digimon never does either.

i dont know, but you see where am coming from tho, dont happen here. wish i had more answers tho :/

 

[Ninj]

What the hell is this post about? This has never happened to me.

 

[GGA soonk]

lol hello, yeah, dumb ass me lol, but is weird tho bout your jump...that i cant explain.
the rest tho? like you said, 1 frame window and i dont ever miss it...i dont consider that a bug tho, and no i was not talking to you about the loses, some one else did.
again, i never have this problem at all, and i know for a fact digimon never does either.

i dont know, but you see where am coming from tho, dont happen here. wish i had more answers tho :/

That's good you don't experience it. Some people do, and I can make it happen consistently, so it's obviously an issue. How do you not consider it a bug? It's a dropped input. Shouldn't happen. And this is just the smallest occurrence. We have no idea what else this affects or what other instances this could be happening. I'm going to show you and Webster this weekend

Ignore the next post. I was asked to write up something for the front page. It's basically what you've all seen/read up to this point from me.

 

[GGA soonk]

After reading and hearing about this input bug I decided to hit the lab and get some video evidence. While I can't attest to the input bug being the hidden cause for every player mistake, I did find proof for two real issues. I used a hitbox for this for speed and accuracy.

1. All directional inputs in this game can be executed with minimal input except for jump. What I mean by this is you have to hold up longer than any other direction in order to execute the action.

2. Input drops do happen on down attacks. Down commands done instantly will come out properly, but if down is held shortly before the input the directional command can drop. There seems to be a 1 frame window where you can push the attack and it will come out standing, even though you're already ducking. There are two parts to this video. In the first part, I am hitting down and 1, one right after another, and no D1s are missed. This is to show that even though there are frames from standing to crouching, down pokes and uppercuts can be done instantly. In the second part of the video, I am holding down until the attack is finished each time, which means that the game is ignoring the down command during those standing attacks. The times I just crouch with no attack is my fault(not waiting for attack to finish recovering).

I haven't been able to get this to work with any specials starting with down(Sub Zero's Ice Blast, for example), but that doesn't mean it can't happen; I could just have the timing wrong.

 

[Carefoot]

I think I'm going to need to get my ubuntu hard drive out to record this because essentially we need to record the inputs directly from our controllers and not from the game. So on screen we will show which buttons are being pushed like in the windows screen for joysticks if anyone is familiar.

So hard to capture this bug on camera but even so we have so many examples of our own video where we know "see there that wasn't negative edge right there I was holding block and down then when I went to just stay down I got hit by that instant fireball what gives?

That being said I've been playing this game since release over both systems on multiple controllers (Xbox 360 Pad, PS3 Pad, PS2 Pad, Arcade Stick, PDP Stick, Hitbox) and I can vouch for the legitmacy of the existence of this bug. To everyone posting here saying they don't have this bug are incompetent as people winning tournaments at the highest level of competition say the biggest battle they had into victory WAS THE INPUT BUG!

Spoiler:

*Rio at Devestation 2011 can be heard echoing this in the post victory interview.

This is something as a community we need to stand behind is unacceptable for both online and offline players to deny the existence of. By far this is the elephant in the room for the future of MK9 to survive in this generation of fighters.

 

[Somberness]

The jump thing is to prevent random jumps by accident, you need to hold it for 3 frames for it to register.

 

[GGA soonk]

That's kind of dumb but whatever I guess. They just duplicated the input bug on the Digital Dojo stream, too.

 

[catch22]

To everyone posting here saying they don't have this bug are incompetent as people winning tournaments at the highest level of competition say the biggest battle they had into victory WAS THE INPUT BUG!

so i am incompetent because i get to not have this bug and i never have an issue with it? lol makes a whole lot of sense lol

 

[Carefoot]

so i am incompetent because i get to not have this bug and i never have an issue with it? lol makes a whole lot of sense lol

Or at least blissfully ignorant of whats happening right in front of your eyes. I taught a Street Fighter player today at Wed Night fights how to play Raiden and without skipping a beat he experienced a dropped input with me in training mode.

If you don't get the bug I don't understand why your posting here stop derailing the topic.

If you guys could do me a favor and post about the bug also on the MK9 offical forum under technical support maybe we can raise some eyebrows for people outside of the competitive community.

http://boards.themortalkombat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=63911

 

[catch22]

Or at least blissfully ignorant of whats happening right in front of your eyes. I taught a Street Fighter player today at Wed Night fights how to play Raiden and without skipping a beat he experienced a dropped input with me in training mode.

If you don't get the bug I don't understand why your posting here stop derailing the topic.

If you guys could do me a favor and post about the bug also on the MK9 offical forum under technical support maybe we can raise some eyebrows for people outside of the competitive community.

http://boards.themortalkombat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=63911

well excuse the fuck out of me, it doesnt happen to me, plus i saw the bug happen on stream on the stream finally, a legit one at that, still does not happens to me.
and i posted here because i am a part of the community like you are, i am in no shape or form trying to hinder anything, i posted my finding and what i know about said bug, nothing more and nothing less.

gives you no right to fucking say shit like that.
but is the net, and i guess ASSHOLES ARE EVERYWHERE.

 

[Carefoot]

well excuse the fuck out of me, it doesnt happen to me, plus i saw the bug happen on stream on the stream finally, a legit one at that, still does not happens to me.
and i posted here because i am a part of the community like you are, i am in no shape or form trying to hinder anything, i posted my finding and what i know about said bug, nothing more and nothing less.

gives you no right to fucking say shit like that.
but is the net, and i guess ASSHOLES ARE EVERYWHERE.

You admit the bug exists and knowing its context say its never (a word used in heinous bullshit stories since forever) happened to you and thus I have no right to call you a moron. Well guy from the internet cool story bro but honestly do us all a favor and shut the f...

As much as the all blanketing assholes everywhere theory would like you too believe I am somehow flaming you (I am in fact skeptical that you are not trolling me due to the level of English) I am trying to keep this thread on point and simultaneously bumping this topic so more people get a chance to post there findings so I am happy to explain to you why you are an idiot or I can just shut up knowing your own words will speak for themselves.

Personally I love this game so its in my best interest it doesn't decide to seemingly randomly leave out buttons I pressed where the intention was to press them. Could be that the game engine though I didn't want this input? No.

 

[catch22]

You admit the bug exists and knowing its context say its never (a word used in heinous bullshit stories since forever) happened to you and thus I have no right to call you a moron. Well guy from the internet cool story bro but honestly do us all a favor and shut the f...

As much as the all blanketing assholes everywhere theory would like you too believe I am somehow flaming you (I am in fact skeptical that you are not trolling me due to the level of English) I am trying to keep this thread on point and simultaneously bumping this topic so more people get a chance to post there findings so I am happy to explain to you why you are an idiot or I can just shut up knowing your own words will speak for themselves.

Personally I love this game so its in my best interest it doesn't decide to seemingly randomly leave out buttons I pressed where the intention was to press them. Could be that the game engine though I didn't want this input? No.

LMFAO.....you lose gas pumper HAHAHA

 

[GGA soonk]

Or at least blissfully ignorant of whats happening right in front of your eyes. I taught a Street Fighter player today at Wed Night fights how to play Raiden and without skipping a beat he experienced a dropped input with me in training mode.

If you don't get the bug I don't understand why your posting here stop derailing the topic.

If you guys could do me a favor and post about the bug also on the MK9 offical forum under technical support maybe we can raise some eyebrows for people outside of the competitive community.

http://boards.themortalkombat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=63911

Alex has actually seen the light since last night, but I have to agree with him: Just because he wasn't seeing it or having it happen doesn't make him a moron. Until now there had really been no video evidence or proof of this bug; only incessant whining and a blanket statement that became the cause for every player mistake. I, too, got tired of hearing about it with nothing to back it up, which is why I made the vids in the first place. Skepticism is healthy; no denying that. Instead of shit flinging, it'd probably be better to try and explain things in a better or different way if you really want to get your point across.

I don't have an account on that website but if you feel like reposting this over there with links to the vids, feel free.

 

[Shadowfire]

Well.. I hope that gets fixed too then, because in every other fighting game in existence if your holding down during hit or block stun or recovery and are mashing a button you get the crouched version.

Every other fighting game also encourages mashing more. I actually like how MK9's timing and buffer system encourages single, deliberate presses.

You admit the bug exists and knowing its context say its never (a word used in heinous bullshit stories since forever) happened to you and thus I have no right to call you a moron. Well guy from the internet cool story bro but honestly do us all a favor and shut the f...

I am trying to keep this thread on point and simultaneously bumping this topic so more people get a chance to post there findings

Wait, so you only want people to post their findings if they support your claim?

 

[GGA soonk]

Every other fighting game also encourages mashing more. I actually like how MK9's timing and buffer system encourages single, deliberate presses.





Wait, so you only want people to post their findings if they support your claim?

You can hold down and mash 1 all day with no issue. The issue is that coming out of blockstrings the game will reevaluate inputs/position/whatever and if you happen to hit a button during the 1 frame window I demonstrated(which is not at the beginning of the 'down' input, it's in the middle, hence the complaint) you will get a standing attack. I will make more videos when I get to Columbus and have another player.

ETA
In fact, I've already shown, and will show more later, that deliberate presses mean fuck all in this game.

 

[Tremloc]

The jump thing is to prevent random jumps by accident, you need to hold it for 3 frames for it to register.

If that's true then it's an epic failure of design. You never, ever, make assumptions about what the player was trying to do.

Here's how the code should work:

Engine receives button down jump input
Engine waits X amount of frames for another button press to complete a move, like U+3.
If engine does not receive other button press within X frame window, character jumps, everytime, no matter how fast or slow they released the button.

 

[GGA soonk]

Here's an idea: don't have up commands in the first place and let up act like every other direction in the game.

 

[webreg]

Third Vid. I am holding the down button until the end of each 1. There seems to be a 1 frame window where you will get a standing attack instead of a ducking attack. Sometimes I can get the timing right over and over but this is all I was able to record. You should get the idea.

The way computer interaction works and that includes consoles and games is, that all input command get put on an input stack which can be realized in software or even hardware but that doesn't matter. At a regular interval a dedicated process/threat reads the stack, interprets the commands and hands them over to the main threat. This bug is not about precision and execution but about timing. It depends on the collection interval and the commands being separated in subsequent stacks, that's why you cant reproduce it reliably even though one frame executions can be done with ease on a hitbox. Pinpoint just frame execution is not enough, you also need to be in correct evaluation cycle of the engine because you can input multiple commands in one frame.

There are four commands involved in this whole ordeal:

- Press down
- Release down
- Press one
- Release one

All depends on the order of these commands and whenever all of them are in the same stack or get split up in two different stacks. I can't say what the bug is about if there is one because no scientific or engineered approach has yet been applied to it but I can guess. Per your video and description it only happens in the following sequence:

- Press Down
- Press 1
- Release 1
- Wait
- Release Down

We can ignore the "wait" and "release down" command because the "bug" has already happened at that point. So this leaves us with four possible scenarios if my guess is correct (s1 = stack 1, ... ):


s1 - Press Down
s1 - Collect commands
s2 - Press 1
s2 - Collect commands
s3 - Release 1

s1 - Press Down
s1 - Collect commands
s2 - Press 1
s2 - Release 1

s1 - Press Down
s1 - Press 1
s1 - Collect commands
s2 - Release 1

s1 - Press Down
s1 - Press 1
s1 - Release 1
s1 - Collect commands

I can't say which one is more likely to produce a problem because it comes down to the specific programming of the engine and only proper debugging can reveal the truth.

We now need to factor in the "negative edge" system which interprets key up commands also as key down command. This could explain why instant down1 works because there are two commands in short order that have the same impact so if one gets swallowed, there is always the negative edge input to save the day:

- Press Down (gets swallowed by the game)
- Press 1
- Release Down (also counts as Press Down due to negative edge)
- Release 1

My guess is that if the input bug exists, it might happen far more often than we can see but due to the negative edge the command still works. I should get my "special hardware" today and see if I can get some "machine assisted" results on this because after all is said and done, none of us know what's up and all there is are wild speculations (such as this).

 

[Tremloc]

The way computer interaction works and that includes consoles and games is, that all input command get put on an input stack which can be realized in software or even hardware but that doesn't matter.

I think you might be misunderstanding when and how this bug occurs. The engine isn't missing the down, the character is already crouched, then stands up and does the move, then goes back to crouch.

The jump is also not a missed input or how they're reading inputs from the buffer, the input is there, the engine is just choosing to *not* have you jump. That's the code making assumptions on what the player was trying to do and it's wrong.

Maybe the jump and the D+ button issues aren't related, I'm not sure, but I don't think it's a problem with the input buffer or how NRS is reading it. They're getting the input, this is evident in training mode. If they were dropping inputs, it wouldn't show up in training mode.

It's been a while since I've worked on the unreal engine, but they take care of all the input processing. They're not dropping input.

Also, the input processor runs at 120Hz on both 360 and ps3.

 

[GGA soonk]

Whether its the engine or the game dropping the input, it's clearly deciding that the player should stand. It may not even be an input drop but what else do we call it?

Also, interesting about the negative edge correction theory. I wonder if this is why NRS refuses to remove negative edge from the game...