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General/Other - Thunder God Raiden *Thunder God* Discussion

kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Hi, first of all i thought we should make a discussion thread for every variation.

I'm gonna start this because i seriously cant see the benefits of thunder god. i have not found a combo with his enhanced strings that does more damage than a normal one.

its pointless to use the enhanced strings mid-combo or as launcher, cause damage scales so heavily that you won't get even close to the damage regions of normal combos.

the best midscreen combo i could find (213,run,214~MBdf2,b111+3) does 36% without jip, if you use b112(Charge)2(Charge)df2 as ender after the MBdf2 you get the same and its way harder to execute.

any thoughts on this?
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
kabelfritz said:
I'm gonna start this because i seriously cant see the benefits of thunder god.
Click to expand...
Depends on how bad he is in other variations, I guess.

Anyway, what can you say about empoweing strings on block? Is it possible to use them to force opponent to guess when he must reverse pressure using this mechanic?
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Barrogh said:
Depends on how bad he is in other variations, I guess.

Anyway, what can you say about empoweing strings on block? Is it possible to use them to force opponent to guess when he must reverse pressure using this mechanic?
Click to expand...
no, there are no plus frames
 
B

brizzle

MKKI
I had my doubts about raiden since they took out his teleport on all variations. Then even more when I heard the orbs don't hit unless connected. I've tried to stay optimistic but it's not looking good.

From what I've gathered his "aggresive" variation has no plus frames and no damage increase. His "trap" variation has no setups. And his variation that is based all around his teleport, is unsafe when teleporting?

Hope I'm wrong about one of my two mains
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
kabelfritz said:
no, there are no plus frames
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about plus frames. I was talking about what 3D folks call "reverse mixup".
For example, you have a string of several hits that, when finished, is negative enough to guarantee reversal of pressure. Defender will wait for it to finish, but you don't, instead interrupting it to start anew before opponent can react to it and thus he takes some more chip. Opponent must read when you do that so that he could poke out, but if you decide to actually finish the string, he's getting hit. It's like f3 / f33b3 of MK9 JC. If you Wait for JC to finish the string, you may eat a lot of f3 chip and the like. If you try to poke/armor but read wrong, you can eat full string into more pressure.

So, in short, you don't rely on physical impossibility of your pressure being interrupted via frametraps, you rely on unreactable (but interruptible on a read) "pressure resets".

Seeing how there are like 5 entries in frame data list for a single extendible string, I though that mindgames like that is the reason behind Thundergod's existence.
 
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kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Barrogh said:
I wasn't talking about plus frames. I was talking about what 3D folks call "reverse mixup".
For example, you have a string of several hits that, when finished, is negative enough to guarantee reversal of pressure. Defender will wait for it to finish, but you don't, instead interrupting it to start anew before opponent can react to it and thus he takes some more chip. Opponent must read when you do that so that he could poke out, but if you decide to actually finish the string, he's getting hit. It's like f3 / f33b3 of MK9 JC. If you Wait for JC to finish the string, you may eat a lot of f3 chip and the like. If you try to poke/armor but read wrong, you can eat full string into more pressure.

So, in short, you don't rely on physical impossibility of your pressure being interrupted via frametraps, you rely on unreactable (but interruptible on a read) "pressure resets".

Seeing how there are like 5 entries in frame data list for a single extendible string, I though that mindgames like that is the reason behind Thundergod's existence.
Click to expand...
no, that does not exist. a string like 1122 works the following way:

1. you can just dial it. you get Punch, Punch, electro Punch, teleport~electro Punch. the teleport is part of the 4th attack.
2. you can charge hits 3 and 4 in 4 stages each, with every increase in stage adding damage and juggle height/knockaway. the charge does not delay the hit but charges while hitting (also on block). the longest charge is probably after 20-30 Frames so all of this goes very fast. Charge one is immediate drop, Charge 4 is Fullscreen knockaway. in the between stages you can get juggles with other moves, but its pretty tough, also the charge windows are pretty tight.
3. if you dial 113 and hold 3, you can Charge up to lvl 3, release 3 and press again quick to get the fourth hit. juggles from that string work the same way.

but as said, i cant tell what this adds except flashy looks. damage is lower to equal, there are no plus Frames and the shenanigan potential you seek is not really special. the only thing could be to not charge 113 what drops him down but charge the fourth hit so you get knockdown pressure. doesnt really help much though because the damage potential is low, it might even be punishable and can for sure be armored
 
ShanxterX

ShanxterX

@shanxterx follow me hoes
Only couple stings that leaves him 0 on block, rest is negative. Thunder God is fun. But I am not big fan of raiden'a normals frame wise and reach wise as well
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
@kabelfritz
Hm, I guess I pictured how the entire thing works wrongly.
Well, to be honest, I'm so not sold on Raiden this time. I literally don't see anything about him right now. Hope to be proven wrong once game fully launches.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
midscreen 36%:

213, run, 214~MBdf2, b111+3

Barrogh said:
@kabelfritz
Hm, I guess I pictured how the entire thing works wrongly.
Well, to be honest, I'm so not sold on Raiden this time. I literally don't see anything about him right now. Hope to be proven wrong once game fully launches.
Click to expand...
i dunno yet. he is interesting, but needs to be made work
 
EarlyReflections

EarlyReflections

Warrior
IMakeItL00kC00L said:
Could you elaborate on this. What is giving you a hard time? Is it something execution wise or is it more along the lines of how his variations feel?
Click to expand...
Both.

He is really bulky, weird animations, normals with huge gaps etc.
-The shocker has juggle potential only if burned
-db2 is working only if the opponent is exactly above you. Meter burnt can juggle a bit.
- Supermans' start up is slow.
- His diagonal anti air is nice. Juggles if burnt.

Now about his variations:
- Thunder god seems useless so far… Indeed can give some minor combo extensions
-Displacer is a joke. His teleport is like -5000 on recovery. You have to burn it to make him play like MK9
-Master of storms seems the best so far. As long as we understand his normals, the traps will become a thing.
Still, he lacks of teleport, slow, and his projectile is just mediocre. I can't imagine him escaping from hard zoning.

It's very early to come up to any conclusions, but he is not friendly yet for sure. I don't know, maybe he's not meant to play like MK9. I spent half time with Scorpion and Subzero in the lab and I'm doing much better.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Seems like his thunder god variation seems only useful for chip damage. Of course I don't have the game yet so I'm speculating here.
 
Predannok

Predannok

Kombatant
EarlyReflections said:
Both.

He is really bulky, weird animations, normals with huge gaps etc.
-The shocker has juggle potential only if burned
-db2 is working only if the opponent is exactly above you. Meter burnt can juggle a bit.
- Supermans' start up is slow.
- His diagonal anti air is nice. Juggles if burnt.

Now about his variations:
- Thunder god seems useless so far… Indeed can give some minor combo extensions
-Displacer is a joke. His teleport is like -5000 on recovery. You have to burn it to make him play like MK9
-Master of storms seems the best so far. As long as we understand his normals, the traps will become a thing.
Still, he lacks of teleport, slow, and his projectile is just mediocre. I can't imagine him escaping from hard zoning.

It's very early to come up to any conclusions, but he is not friendly yet for sure. I don't know, maybe he's not meant to play like MK9. I spent half time with Scorpion and Subzero in the lab and I'm doing much better.
Click to expand...
DAAAM that sounds bad D: whats the frame data on his teleport? and does he has a safe special?
 
IMakeItL00kC00L

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
EarlyReflections said:
Both.

He is really bulky, weird animations, normals with huge gaps etc.
-The shocker has juggle potential only if burned
-db2 is working only if the opponent is exactly above you. Meter burnt can juggle a bit.
- Supermans' start up is slow.
- His diagonal anti air is nice. Juggles if burnt.

Now about his variations:
- Thunder god seems useless so far… Indeed can give some minor combo extensions
-Displacer is a joke. His teleport is like -5000 on recovery. You have to burn it to make him play like MK9
-Master of storms seems the best so far. As long as we understand his normals, the traps will become a thing.
Still, he lacks of teleport, slow, and his projectile is just mediocre. I can't imagine him escaping from hard zoning.

It's very early to come up to any conclusions, but he is not friendly yet for sure. I don't know, maybe he's not meant to play like MK9. I spent half time with Scorpion and Subzero in the lab and I'm doing much better.
Click to expand...
Can you cancel raiden's fireball? If he can then i think it'll help somewhat in the zoning mindgames
 
Dirtylova

Dirtylova

YOLO FLYING GRAYSON BICH
How's his footsie game fellas? Also does he have any ranged pokes? Someone mentioned his tele being in the minus, deep in the minus. Can someone put a number on that.

I hope nrs didn't fuck up rai..
 
zerosebaz

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
Does his fireball work like in the trailer across all variations, or only in this one, or it doesn't at all? I thought in this variation the fireball gave a pop up and he was also able to leave it in place, to work like MMH's mb orbs. At least that is what I got from the trailer. Is all of that gone? That would be sad, I could see great uses for that.

 
Nivek

Nivek

Athena guide me, the thunder God...
best so far combos with 1 bar(thundergod variation):
midscreen jip, 2,1,3 ~ mb df2 , u2 , f2, f2, b1,1,2,2(full charge) bf3 43%
corner jip, 2,1,3, ~ mb df2 , b2 , 2,1,3 f1,2,b2 f1,2,b2 f1,2,b2 UPPERCUT!! 52%
I'm gonna post a vid also doing them..
btw i cant do for some reason 214~RC~213..you are on ps4??you have the update??
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Predannok said:
whats the frame data on his teleport? and does he has a safe special?
Click to expand...
At one point it was said that tele is 10/29 (was 10/19 in MK9).

zerosebaz said:
Does his fireball work like in the trailer across all variations, or only in this one, or it doesn't at all? I thought in this variation the fireball gave a pop up and he was also able to leave it in place, to work like MMH's mb orbs. At least that is what I got from the trailer. Is all of that gone? That would be sad, I could see great uses for that.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know, but I think it's TG-exclusive.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Barrogh said:
@kabelfritz
Hm, I guess I pictured how the entire thing works wrongly.
Well, to be honest, I'm so not sold on Raiden this time. I literally don't see anything about him right now. Hope to be proven wrong once game fully launches.
Click to expand...
i dunno yet. he is interesting, but needs to be made work
zerosebaz said:
Does his fireball work like in the trailer across all variations, or only in this one, or it doesn't at all? I thought in this variation the fireball gave a pop up and he was also able to leave it in place, to work like MMH's mb orbs. At least that is what I got from the trailer. Is all of that gone? That would be sad, I could see great uses for that.

Click to expand...
it does in TG and does not in MoS
 
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