Technical Complaints about MK9

[jamessmk]

A wise man told me something once and since then I have looked at the technical aspects of the game in a different light.

"The only thing consistent about mk9 is the start button"

Ha ha friend well spoken

 

[Rathalos]

These are fundamental issues in the conceptual make-up of the game, and they are every bit as important as fixing the fucking-super-retarded-fuck-all that happens when you're holding crouch, proceed to hit "2", and your [ban incoming] ass character does a fucking retarded standing 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!djfklasdjfkl;asjdfahvnxcm,vnaljsdfklasdfjafasd

*breathes*

Yo. Sup.

True and I'm all for them adding more depth to there game, and I'm sure they are as well, but I would prefer it if they took it slow and did it a little at a time over the course of several games. I don't have a lot of faith they can pull it off in one go, despite making fighting games for 20 years they don't exactly have a lot of experience with making good ones with depth, they should ease into it.

 

[evansgambit]

Coming primarily from an SF background. I feel that capcom wouldn't allow starter strings that launch into potentially more damage, to be safe on block. It's usually weighed down to risk vs reward. If somehow the game changed, so that launcher strings were unsafe, and non-launching strings safe, then people wouldn't be able to mindlessly repeat the same combos over. This would allow for more variety, and act as an incentive to use other strings. Since with many characters there's no incentive to use other strings when all you need is 1 or 2 strings to get the job done.

The meter usage in this game, seems to also be unbalanced, but that's usually character and playstyle dependent. If a fighting game offers a choice, on how meter is to be used. It's a difficulty job to balance the choices, to make each equally as strong. As it stands, 3 bar X-Ray's in combos scale horribly then their truth worth, and breakers are too good. Is it a goal for development, to mathematically balance things out, so that 3 enhanced moves = 1 Xray, or 1 breaker + 1 enhanced move = 1 Xray? This is one for the too hard basket.

Also, a big design issue, I would imagine is the consideration of whether or not, X-Rays should be comboed into. In SF4, the ultras which replaced the role of Supers, for the bulk of characters, had setups. I was wondering if the MK mechanism, would benefit from not allowing players to combo into X-Rays. But instead had to land them naked. I suppose containment moves changes this equation, as you get infinite frame advantage. As it stands, I think a naked X-Ray should be rewarded, to do about 50% - assuming the per bar value from using a 2 bar breaker, breaking around 35% combos.

Discuss. Thanks.

 

[leek]

Coming primarily from an SF background. I feel that capcom wouldn't allow starter strings that launch into potentially more damage, to be safe on block. It's usually weighed down to risk vs reward. If somehow the game changed, so that launcher strings were unsafe, and non-launching strings safe, then people wouldn't be able to mindlessly repeat the same combos over. This would allow for more variety, and act as an incentive to use other strings. Since with many characters there's no incentive to use other strings when all you need is 1 or 2 strings to get the job done.

The meter usage in this game, seems to also be unbalanced, but that's usually character and playstyle dependent. If a fighting game offers a choice, on how meter is to be used. It's a difficulty job to balance the choices, to make each equally as strong. As it stands, 3 bar X-Ray's in combos scale horribly then their truth worth, and breakers are too good. Is it a goal for development, to mathematically balance things out, so that 3 enhanced moves = 1 Xray, or 1 breaker + 1 enhanced move = 1 Xray? This is one for the too hard basket.

Also, a big design issue, I would imagine is the consideration of whether or not, X-Rays should be comboed into. In SF4, the ultras which replaced the role of Supers, for the bulk of characters, had setups. I was wondering if the MK mechanism, would benefit from not allowing players to combo into X-Rays. But instead had to land them naked. I suppose containment moves changes this equation, as you get infinite frame advantage. As it stands, I think a naked X-Ray should be rewarded, to do about 50% - assuming the per bar value from using a 2 bar breaker, breaking around 35% combos.

Discuss. Thanks.

naked xray from kung lao on jump in, on sindel, on baraka if you try zoning, on reptile if you try zoning..... no way should it be 50%....

 

[Past]

1. Why can't you breaker out of Kitana's combos? It is just silly how she can exploit the breaker system but others cannot.
2. How is it that a character has MORE defensive options when he/she is on the floor as compared to standing up?
3. Why does X-rays, which scale horribly and most of the time unsafe, cost more than a breaker, which is a guaranteed escape out of combos?
4. Why is it that character have to rely on d1 and d4 to anti air jump happy opponents? Why doesn't more characters have consistent anti airs like Kung Lao?

 

[CY MasterHavik]

I have only notice overhead being block while someone was crouching and blocking. Besides that...everything is fine for the most part.

 

[Sao87]

naked xray from kung lao on jump in, on sindel, on baraka if you try zoning, on reptile if you try zoning..... no way should it be 50%....

Why not, hes saying that characters xrays should have a purpose aka shut down something you want to do or risk taking damage. I think the damage should be more around 40-45% but that is just me.

In street fighter Abel with an ultra means you risk eating a naked ultra if you toss projectiles.
Ryu means block a little more and don't mindlessly jump in.

Xrays like Kung Lao's are good because when it is available for him it forces the opponent to think, which nobody in the MK community likes to do (aka the reason everyone wants the ability to wake up for free with no risk involved).

As it stands there are very few xrays that are good without comboing into them. Cage makes you afraid to attack, Kung lao makes you afraid to jump, Sub-Zero makes you afraid to throw projectiles, Kano/Jax makes you want to jump more. These are examples of GOOD xrays because a mind game is being played the moment they have xray.

 

[MagicMan357]

Coming primarily from an SF background. I feel that capcom wouldn't allow starter strings that launch into potentially more damage, to be safe on block. It's usually weighed down to risk vs reward. If somehow the game changed, so that launcher strings were unsafe, and non-launching strings safe, then people wouldn't be able to mindlessly repeat the same combos over. This would allow for more variety, and act as an incentive to use other strings. Since with many characters there's no incentive to use other strings when all you need is 1 or 2 strings to get the job done.

The meter usage in this game, seems to also be unbalanced, but that's usually character and playstyle dependent. If a fighting game offers a choice, on how meter is to be used. It's a difficulty job to balance the choices, to make each equally as strong. As it stands, 3 bar X-Ray's in combos scale horribly then their truth worth, and breakers are too good. Is it a goal for development, to mathematically balance things out, so that 3 enhanced moves = 1 Xray, or 1 breaker + 1 enhanced move = 1 Xray? This is one for the too hard basket.

Also, a big design issue, I would imagine is the consideration of whether or not, X-Rays should be comboed into. In SF4, the ultras which replaced the role of Supers, for the bulk of characters, had setups. I was wondering if the MK mechanism, would benefit from not allowing players to combo into X-Rays. But instead had to land them naked. I suppose containment moves changes this equation, as you get infinite frame advantage. As it stands, I think a naked X-Ray should be rewarded, to do about 50% - assuming the per bar value from using a 2 bar breaker, breaking around 35% combos.

Discuss. Thanks.

You really dont get MK at all

 

[leek]

You really dont get MK at all

... that's all you have to contribute? Did you like.. read the first sentence and just go, "oop, tl;dr fuck dat. lol it sayz SF and Capcom.. datz not MK. y u no MK" ?

Why not, hes saying that characters xrays should have a purpose aka shut down something you want to do or risk taking damage. I think the damage should be more around 40-45% but that is just me.

I just don't think you should be hitting that much percentages.. I would rather have most bnbs do much less in MK honestly. I don't like the idea of messing up once and costing you the match while the opponent carries you around the stage with bombs, hats, buzzsaws, forceballs.. etc etc.. for 50+%

In my opinion 50% is the highest any sort of combo should go. I would rather have it evolve into a game where the most damaging are the X-Rays, so there is a use, and they do the same damage now.. but the high percentage hitting characters(kit, cyrax, etc) are toned way down. It's an ill-formed thought, it's 2AM and I've been up for about 36 hours but I would like it to be somewhat similar to what was stated..

As it stands there are very few xrays that are good without comboing into them. Cage makes you afraid to attack, Kung lao makes you afraid to jump, Sub-Zero makes you afraid to throw projectiles, Kano/Jax makes you want to jump more. These are examples of GOOD xrays because a mind game is being played the moment they have xray.

I agree with it. I like x-rays.. I just don't want them doing 50% for punishing in a game of pure offense.. where there is no down time.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I think a naked X-Ray should be rewarded, to do about 50%

Why don't you play Kano and Jax, then? Kano's does 43% and Jax's does 41% I believe. :top:

 

[MagicMan357]

its funny metallica because i play SF also so have fun with your mute point, i was just showing that he doesnt understand it and if he wants to know HE can address the community

 

[THTB]

To the guy saying MK should not have safe launchers that are almost all either even or worse on block...SF has safe, hitconfirmable normals that can be heavily advantaged on block. The Mishimas in Tekken have one of the fastest launchers in the game, and on block is like +5. If I'm not mistaken, hopkicks in Tekken 6 aren't even launcher punishable in a number of cases.

Do not get on MK's case for safe combo starters lol.

 

[Killphil]

its funny metallica because i play SF also so have fun with your mute point, i was just showing that he doesnt understand it and if he wants to know HE can address the community

Playing devil's advocate here. You didn't really "show" him anything. You just stated that he really doesn't get mk at all. That's all you said, without defending your post. A little more insight into WHY you said that would make your statement a little more valid and a little less condescending.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I talked with some AE players too and they want the Block button removed from mk.....

#unfairtocompare

 

[Killphil]

I talked with some AE players too and they want the Block button removed from mk.....

#unfairtocompare

lol I had contracted what I called the "street fighter complex" playing the demo of mk9. My friend would shoot a spear at me full screen and I'd hold back and then when it hits me I'm like "FUCK!! I forgot there was a BLOCK BUTTON!". I got over it pretty well though. The only thing I don't understand is how they apparently have this game messed up. Like you said, the game shouldn't be compared to sf mechanics wise because it's obviously different. Sure the throw teching thing is annoying, know what else is annoying? 2 frame shoryukens. Don't hate me peeps, lets just leave it at a difference of opinion.

 

[MagicMan357]

Playing devil's advocate here. You didn't really "show" him anything. You just stated that he really doesn't get mk at all. That's all you said, without defending your post. A little more insight into WHY you said that would make your statement a little more valid and a little less condescending.

true but i cant really say anything now because THTB really hit it right on

basically it seems like hes saying remove some freedom for freedom?

 

[greeneless]

I don't think breakers are "too good," and I don't think X-rays should be more damaging or changed at all. But that is coming from someone who wouldnt care if they were gone completely from the game. If you use one and it doesn't kill your opponent, you're either sentencing yourself to a slow death or giving them a better opportunity to make a comeback, but I like it that way.

The meter is somewhat character based, but I don't think there is ever a time when breakers are "too good." Yeah, they're useful, they save your health. But, if you didn't make a mistake somewhere, or get outplayed in someway, you wouldnt have had to use that breaker, and needing to use it is a bad thing. Mk9 Isn't about just the health, it's more about the meter.

Say you're running a character like Jade, Quan Chi, Cyrax, or even Cyber sub zero. Using a breaker is going to significantly lower your chances of winning. Think about it dude, it takes 26% away from a quan chi combo, it takes away Cyber's ability to combo off of a 3-3 low string because he needs an EX freeze, and it takes a full combo opportunity away from Jade off of an EX glow or a low boomerang trap.

 

[Sao87]

All I really want is a guaranteed safe way to wake up with risk involved. If my opponent blocks my wake up attack regardless of what it is, I should eat a combo. If I decide to take the risk I should have immunity from accidentally getting poked out which people are getting pretty good at doing.

If I spend meter on an ex move, don't take away my bar until the move has been completed. So many times I end up wasting meter for nothing because of well timed pokes.

I want a consistent way to discourage people from jumping across the board. I want my character to turn around faster if I am being crossed up sloppily. The whole idea of safe jumping should stay in of course but the ability to stop sloppy play should be consistent.

Throws should have a universal tech button or maybe throws should be teched with punches on front throws or back throws with kicks.

I can't really think of anything else right now. :jerkoff:

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

my only real issue I can think of is not trading hits, I've heard its a priority system that the program judges who's hit connects if they should be hitting at the same time with something like an uppercut or so I've heard. It might all be bs but it would still be nice to be able to trade hits instead of one person always winning out. There is no such thing as a draw in mk. On the bright side though since this patch, I can pick any alt costume I want and haven't desynched once.

 

[kabelfritz]

i think it cant be changed. throws are the only mixup option for characters without low combo hits, if you could tech em while blocking those chars would barely have options to get a hit in at all.

edit: a general thing about complaints: street fighter already exists, we dont need mortal kombat to be street fighter B. the game can be (and is) good in other ways.

 

[Helter Skelter]

All I really want is a guaranteed safe way to wake up with risk involved. If my opponent blocks my wake up attack regardless of what it is, I should eat a combo. If I decide to take the risk I should have immunity from accidentally getting poked out which people are getting pretty good at doing.

If I spend meter on an ex move, don't take away my bar until the move has been completed. So many times I end up wasting meter for nothing because of well timed pokes.

I want a consistent way to discourage people from jumping across the board. I want my character to turn around faster if I am being crossed up sloppily. The whole idea of safe jumping should stay in of course but the ability to stop sloppy play should be consistent.

Throws should have a universal tech button or maybe throws should be teched with punches on front throws or back throws with kicks.

I can't really think of anything else right now. :jerkoff:

I agree with everything here.

-Wakeup attacks should have been dedicated to certain moves to begin with. That's the biggest flaw in the wakeup system for the this game.

-If a move that costs a resource (meter or health in Skarlet's case) is stuffed before it's completed. You shouldn't have to pay for it. The penality was getting hit in the first place.

-Quicker turn around would make so much sense in this game. This is one thing I actually can't blame NRS for. The game is overly animated and that's not there fault, they just need to know where to aplly such things.

-In terms of throws, I think it would be ideal for it to be like this:

1+3 is a Forward Throw and 2+4 is a Backwards throw. Press 1 to escape a forward throw. Press 2 to escape a backwards throw. The Throw break window should be 8-10 frames wide and allowed to be broken during a block. If you escape a throw, you recieve 1% damage and you are left in negative frames (around 3-5 frames negative). Throws should be invincible when in animation and not be beaten out by Sektor's homing missiles, Sub Zero's clones, etc.

This way it's still a 50/50 guess and even if you do break you a left at disadvantage. That would compensate for being able to block and throw tech. Turtling even in a game with chip damage everywhere should be a viable strategy (although it's not a tactic employed by myself. lol) and being able to hold block and tech throws would accentuate that.

 

[galindo]

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

what?
i think its silly to think that way,

yeah theres not muchl risk, but its still a guessing game between pressing the right button, and also choosing wether to poke or not. its not like youre gonna win, but with the wacky way wake ups are right now with some moves, i might want them to stick with the throwing how it is...

1. These guys are AE players who are entirely used to being able to tech throws while crouch blocking (Yes, I do know about tech traps).

2. Teching while blocking severely hinders throws. Unlike in AE, pressing buttons while blocking does not perform an attack.

3. Technical assessments? Too much buggy shit lol. I love the game, but too much stuff is buggy...like, I clearly hit down and 4. How the hell do I end up with a standing 4/b]?

thats also another thing i dont really understand when people say it.

its just an animation and timing thing. its impossible to perfectly simultaneously press two buttons at once, you can get close but if youre just a bit too delayed it wont work. buffering doesnt really work in this game. lets say you do a reptile dash and then press down 4 but you get the standing 4, you obviously pressed down too early.

thats just how ive seen it all along IMO though...

 

[Sao87]

That's a "rock and a hard place" situation. The whole idea is fundamentally flawed and they need to revisit the throw tech from scratch.

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

Make a universal tech throw button (the throw button or 1+3). Make it possible to tech a throw while blocking and make the throw tech window small (perhaps 6-8 frames). If someone attempts to tech a throw they should be vulnerable to hit or taken out of their block animation. This completes the RPS circle for that mind game.

Hit > Throw
Throw > Block
Block > Hit

 

[BookBurning]

Street Fighter play whine alot; I know because I used to be a Street Fighter player and I whined alot. (I still do sometimes.)

Regardless I'm not a Street Fighter player now and I'm quite happy with my move to an MK guy. I like the ambiguous throw teching in this game honestly because it makes throwing kind of powerful, in SF I PERSONALLY felt that throws needed a little more umph to them, but that's just me.

Also in regards to the block button, I love it and really it feels pretty natural at this point.

The fact is when it came to 2D styled fighters, Capcom has dominated and anything besides Capcom would always subtly emulate their style (for the most part.) I'm happy that MK is busting into the scene different from the rest and I don't want it likened to SF at all.

 

[evansgambit]

You really dont get MK at all

Your right about that. I don't even understand the footsies in this game.

I'm trying to learn a counter-offensive style of play for MK9. At the moment, with my limited time, focusing on trying to beat anticipated advancing rush strings.

With the X-Rays being 50%, I completely ignored their usefullness, startup, armour. That was purely mathematical, and incorrect. At 50%, it would add too much gamble to the game, making it more of a luckfest.