Patches in MK9: Good and Bad.

[Belial]

After reading this post, I wanted to speak my mind and encourage you to do so.

As of now, there are many dubious things in the game, that are not adressed.

Recent patches tend to deal with balance issues by providing armor to just about everyone, which seem more like a "hotfix" rather than a well-thought decision to me.

If you go on balancing things by giving same tools to everybody, you could as well make identical characters to start with, therefore, balance will be perfect

There are some general concepts I would like to be adressed, that, I hope, will make the game more entertaining.

There are few _completely useless_ specials and many more are nearly useless. I made a separate thread for this awhile ago
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?10417-Useless-specials-list

Some characters have a lot of diversity with their specials, while others only a tiny bit.
A few examples:
Kung Lao Normal Hat can be pointed in 3 direction, EX hat extends combos.
Kung Lao Ground Hat is a great zoning/pressure tool, EX hat allows for pressure setups (after throw for ex)
Normal Spin and EX spin serve different purpose
Normal Divekick is a great anti zoning, zoning and AA tool, EX divekick has adv on guard is blocked low therefore also works as a pressure tool
EX teleport has armor

Every special and ex special roles are split. Same can be said about reptile, Shang Tsung and many others.

However there are huge amount of specials, EX versions of which only add 3-4% of damage and that's all they do. What's worse, some characters specials are all of that kind. There is just too many of those.

It is just unfair that some characters get all good specials and ex versions and some only or mainly get trash exes. Specials being the only ways to extend certain hit or block strings play a huge role at high level games.

There are many ways to enhance a character's special. extra adv on hit or block, Armor, extending combos, stealing meter, lowering hitbox, pushback on block or hit etc. Why is it only armor property that's being adressed? Leaving out a lot of stuff that most characters really lack to compete with a higher end characters?

 

[evansgambit]

Well, to answer your topic question. I would say patches are good. They're not bad. What's bad, is when your original product, MK9 Vanilla, looks and plays nothing like your finished product - Final MK9. If there's too many changes, then that reflects poorly on NRS.

I think the point, of usefulness of enhanced moves, boils down to a character's list of moves. You want to create a character, who's every move, be it normal, command, special, enhanced or X-Ray, has a purpose. 1, 2, 3, 4, d1, d2, d3, d4, etc. There should be a reason to use each of them, in such a way, where their advantages and disadvantages balance each other out, along the lines or risk and reward. If a character has one normal chain, one special move, or one enhanced move that is too good, it becomes the dominant choice. Why would you ever use anything else? And that's not what the game designer's should strive for. Instead of the "trash EX"

Giving armour to moves or enhanced moves, is in my opinion, the easy way out. Lacks creativity and resourcefulness. Armour is almost like invincibility, allowing you to plow your way through, instead of solving things with initiative.

I like your list at the end. I'm going to brainstorm a few myself:

Enhance move features
- Invincible/Armour
- Safe on block
- Faster startup
- Extends combos
- Improves characters stats: walk speed, attack damage, health gain, meter gain, attack speed
- Positional advantage: puts opponent in corner, rewards stagger state
- Variable attack: Possible different attack enders
- Changes in block level: high, mid or low
- Delayable
- Unblockable

 

[Chaosphere]

So every online game that has lots of patches is a bad game and reflect poorly on the game company? Wow... I guess every single online game that's ever been good is a bad game.

 

[RNGoddess]

So every online game that has lots of patches is a bad game and reflect poorly on the game company? Wow... I guess every single online game that's ever been good is a bad game.

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think there's any fighting game out there right now that gets patched as much as MK9 does. The game got revised within a month or so's time of being out. Time isn't being given to let the game grow. Once you get adjusted to something, it's gone. You could argue that the problems with the game in Vanilla seriously needed to be patched regardless; but if that's the case, those problems shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[Rathalos]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think there's any fighting game out there right now that gets patched as much as MK9 does. The game got revised within a month or so's time of being out. Time isn't being given to let the game grow. Once you get adjusted to something, it's gone. You could argue that the problems with the game in Vanilla seriously needed to be patched regardless; but if that's the case, those problems shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Hes talking about games in general, most other genres have been patching there games for years, even far more competitive genres like RTS and MOBAS. Fighting games never really did it because consoles couldn't until this gen.

There were a lot of problems in vanilla that should have been fixed ASAP, like KL's damage, smokes OTG, and others. They got in the game because you can only do so much testing with a limited group of people, even worse NRS can't do location tests like most japanese fighting games because arcades are dead in the west, so they have to do most of it themselves with limited internal betas.

Since they can't do location tests, I think they really need to consider a day and date PC version of MK10, just so they can do a large scale closed beta, it would help them out greatly, IMO.

 

[RNGoddess]

Since they can't do location tests, I think they really need to consider a day and date PC version of MK10, just so they can do a large scale closed beta, it would help them out greatly, IMO.

That would be interesting.

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think there's any fighting game out there right now that gets patched as much as MK9 does. The game got revised within a month or so's time of being out. Time isn't being given to let the game grow. Once you get adjusted to something, it's gone. You could argue that the problems with the game in Vanilla seriously needed to be patched regardless; but if that's the case, those problems shouldn't have been there in the first place.

The whole "should have" argument creates a lose lose situation for Netherrealm and is largely unproductive. If they don't patch the game, "the original product is bad so the game is bad", and if they do patch the game "they're patching too fast and not letting the game progress." You're admitting to picking a fight with NRS no matter what angle they take. If you don't like the game, don't fucking play it. If you do like the game, you can either A. support NRS and try to advocate what YOU think the best way to patch it would be or B. disregard all patches as "impure" and play vanilla in ignorance of the patches. If you don't want to do either, you're just a troll because you insist on complaining about the game without any incentive to want it to get fixed.

To the OP: Some EXs that seem to have no properties have more than they look like. I just went in to test out some of the "useless specials" and here's what I found:
-Sonya's EX dive kick does more chip on block and pushes you further away (which makes it safer on block than regular dive kick)
-Sonya's EX kiss can be held/cancelled out of, just like rain's roundhouse. This seems useful in block strings for the cancel into grab.
-Jax's EX Overhead Smash comes out considerable faster than normal when naked. It can't reset into the EX ground pound, but if you need a fast overhead it would beat out some moves when normal Overhead wouldn't.
-Baraka's EX Chop Chop might do less damage than regular Chop Chop into Blade Charge, but, unlike the latter, cannot be breakered. If your opponent is sitting on 2 meters, the difference between 11% and 17% is significant.
-Lyuben mentioned EX ice puddle for subby... at least pre-whatever patch we're getting it CAN be used for the reset, which is amazing. Let's see if NRS compensates this EX post patch and not make judgments about "future uselessness."
-Cyber Sub's EX Teleport combos after 3,3. I've also found that, with proper timing, you can combo it into a close Ice Bomb, which will freeze the opponent before they hit the ground (and you're on the other side ready to combo).
-Kitana's EX Pretty Kick has invincibility on wakeup AND pushes back the opponent a significant amount of distance on block (when compared to normal pretty kick). 2 EX Pretty Kicks when blocked will essentially have the opponent in the corner already.
-Kano's EX balls are obviously more about timing and mobility than damage. I've won matches by delaying his EX straight ball before and have seen pro Kano players utilize EX upball. EX Knives hit overhead. EX choke makes you switch places with your opponent (you roll to the opposite side). Kano's jump kick -> EX air ball does a respectable 22% (non ex does 14).

Somewhere in the thread is mentioned Sheeva's EX grabs and Stomps...I won't even address this, ever decent sheeva player I've ever seen uses theses moves. Also, Liu Kang's EX fireballs have knockdown.

All of this took me about 30 mins in practice, and the only character I actually use in this list is Kano. I'm not going to go ahead and say that these are "game breaking changes", but I will make the argument that they DO have utility, even if it's only situational. Many of these even utilize evansgambit's suggestions! Not everything gets to be a Lao Spin, but not everything has to be. What do you guys think?

 

[Badboy Takuma]

Hes talking about games in general, most other genres have been patching there games for years, even far more competitive genres like RTS and MOBAS. Fighting games never really did it because consoles couldn't until this gen.

There were a lot of problems in vanilla that should have been fixed ASAP, like KL's damage, smokes OTG, and others. They got in the game because you can only do so much testing with a limited group of people, even worse NRS can't do location tests like most japanese fighting games because arcades are dead in the west, so they have to do most of it themselves with limited internal betas.

Since they can't do location tests, I think they really need to consider a day and date PC version of MK10, just so they can do a large scale closed beta, it would help them out greatly, IMO.

ppl wake up..
everybody here should understand this:
WE ARE ALL BETA TESTERS, we pay for this game and his dlc,s but we are just beta testers, IMHO
beta testers for the real thing, next version of the game MORTAL KOMBAT X (mk10)

XD i realy believe that 8)

 

[doomfarmer]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think there's any fighting game out there right now that gets patched as much as MK9 does.

Had to

Really though, this game has been patched how many times? 2? With a 3rd (and they are saying, hopefully final) patch. That's not really so bad...

 

[JennyCage]

Anyone who thinks the game shouldn't be patched is someone who doesn't play at a high enough level to understand -why- it should be patched. Not trying to be insulting but it's true. Remember Kabal's block infinite? Baraka's infinite? OTG Smoke bomb? Release day Kung Lao? We still have 80-100% Cyrax and Smoke resets, too, not to mention the plethora of bugs and inconsistencies that make this game hard to swallow on a competitive level.

MK9 needs patches if it wants to maintain its player base. So far I've had several friends (all high quality, knowledgable players) stop playing or outright sell MK9 because of the bullshit in this game.

 

[MagicMan357]

So people talk shit about mk because of NRS's history then somehow dont expect some hiccups along the way and even they now have the tec to fix stuff, thats become an issue?

WTF is wrong with people

The actual issue is WHAT they're patching, to much un-necassary armor is my main issue

 

[aj1701]

ppl wake up..
everybody here should understand this:
WE ARE ALL BETA TESTERS, we pay for this game and his dlc,s but we are just beta testers, IMHO
beta testers for the real thing, next version of the game MORTAL KOMBAT X (mk10)

XD i realy believe that 8)

I can only assume from this you've never actually used beta software. If only all betas went so well...

 

[RNGoddess]

If you don't want to do either, you're just a troll because you insist on complaining about the game without any incentive to want it to get fixed.

Actually no, I'm not complaining personally. I'm just explaining the mindset behind those who are against NRS's patching.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Anyone who thinks the game shouldn't be patched is someone who doesn't play at a high enough level to understand -why- it should be patched. Not trying to be insulting but it's true. Remember Kabal's block infinite? Baraka's infinite? OTG Smoke bomb? Release day Kung Lao? We still have 80-100% Cyrax and Smoke resets, too, not to mention the plethora of bugs and inconsistencies that make this game hard to swallow on a competitive level.

MK9 needs patches if it wants to maintain its player base. So far I've had several friends (all high quality, knowledgable players) stop playing or outright sell MK9 because of the bullshit in this game.

I believe it. I know a lot of people who gave up.
But I also am a believer in the theory that all of this will be leading to an MK3/UMK3 scenario, in that the latter ended up being so good and so much better than its predecessor, that's the faults of the former were slightly less harped on out of gratification for being given the awesome U version.
Because this IS an amazing game. Just, as you said, bullshit-heavy.

Game - Bullshit Heaviness Weight = Amazing Game. Math is power .

Thoughts?

 

[Satan1]

I also think we are a testers, but not in a bad way. Most of the time NRS listens to the complaints of the players and tries to fix the adressed problems, what do we want more? Maybe next time they shouldn't be that hasty patching it up (first patches were to fast, remember the Kano patches?), but the patches were needed to have a good functioning game. Right now a base is laid for the next installments of the franchise, a base mostly based on players' input. B.t.w. MK9 is one of the more balanced fighters out there...
And I don't really care if we are "testers", NRS gives us lot of stuff for free too. The DLC characters are (quite) cheap and we got extra costumes, there are other games were players have to pay way to much money for these extra's (sometimes for just colours!?). If these are the benefits of the "testing", I'm happy to be a part of it!
But on the other hand I can understand reactions like Mapusa's, I was thinking the same before I came with a more moderate oppinion.
One thing NRS/WB should change is to handle the whole franchise and the players with a bit more respect, I got stepped on my toes when they released the bad Euro Kollektors edition or the whole MK:AK farce. But that's not really thread related and is a marketing problem.