Clark L.
F1 ftw.
thank youFinished this. Enjoyable listen. Some extreme downplaying and odd statements aside.
thank youFinished this. Enjoyable listen. Some extreme downplaying and odd statements aside.
i dont think he loses to kitana its 5-5 m8 .. and kunglao's armor glitch and being able to spin u full combo for trying to follow up while + frame adv is def balanced i agree lolI'll say this about Kung Lao though. I don't think anyone (at least not anyone reasonable) says he was overnerfed. Kung Lao is one of the most well balanced top tier characters in the game. He's fine the way he is. However, it can't be denied that he loses to Kabal, Cyrax, Sonya, (that's 3 out of 5 members of the top 5. Which is funny since Smoke players go crazy about Smoke losing to 3 of the top 5), Kitana (top 10) and Cage. That's five losing match-ups. Now, I don't mind someone saying Kung Lao should be 5th (though I personally have him at the 6th spot, behind Freddy) because he's super well rounded, doesn't lose any match-up worse than 4-6, has tools to deal even with his most difficult match-ups, and dominate a lot of the cast. But this idea that he's super downplayed is a thing of the past.
lol aaaaaaaah, I'm old, sarcasm on the internet is lost on me.Ummm, it's called sarcasm. "Smoke has nothing great" was something that was said on the podcast and I'm blowing it up. Jeez.
Fair enough. Smoke's 100% glitch combos are "nothing great," I agree loli dont think he loses to kitana its 5-5 m8 .. and kunglao's armor glitch and being able to spin u full combo for trying to follow up while + frame adv is def balanced i agree lol
I never said smoke is balanced n his possibility of dmg is great ill agree on that.. Its situational but is great. I really could careless what you have to say on things anymore. I respect yours and everyone's opinions but you in particular I'm not really respecting how you go about things n twist what's being said. Tldr i don't care for you're gga bias elitist mentallity n the way you try to put others down when u have zero credibility in anything but he said she saidFair enough. Smoke's 100% glitch combos are "nothing great," I agree lol
Do you listen to what your saying then?I never said smoke is balanced n his possibility of dmg is great ill agree on that.. Its situational but is great. I really could careless what you have to say on things anymore. I respect yours and everyone's opinions but you in particular I'm not really respecting how you go about things n twist what's being said. Tldr i don't care for you're gga bias elitist mentallity n the way you try to put others down when u have zero credibility in anything but he said she said
You can stand block after whiffing a jump attack. However, if you hold down and block after whiffing a jump attack your character will be vulernable, and never actually block.d3 spin is better than d1, if you're talking about AA. d3 hitbox will make any jump attack whiff on crossup, and the opponent cannot block after whiffing a deep jump kick or punch. d3 is also better as a footsies tool/poking out of pressure because his d3 is so low that it can go under some normals, and it can't be punished on block.
Dude, nothing I said was taken out of context. You literally said "Smoke doesn't have anything great." What context could possibly exist to justify that claim? Didn't we just go through this?I never said smoke is balanced n his possibility of dmg is great ill agree on that.. Its situational but is great. I really could careless what you have to say on things anymore. I respect yours and everyone's opinions but you in particular I'm not really respecting how you go about things n twist what's being said. Tldr i don't care for you're gga bias elitist mentallity n the way you try to put others down when u have zero credibility in anything but he said she said
Loved this, we need more mk9 podcasts (even though this was not a podcast lol). Looking forward to watching nec. Wish I could make it out this year but unfortunately it looks like I won't be able to :-(
Love hearing people talking and caring about mk9 again though!
Im with AtK, I'll still play mk9 even after mkx is released. New games dont have to replace old games, they can co-exist
Sorry I was late on thisI think he is a master of damage though, and footsies. I mean, those are two extremely important aspects.
Anyway, I've enjoyed this.
I agree about Kenshi. Idc what numbers you put on that mu, there is no reason cage should ever win. Just none. Unless the kenshi player is drunk, there is just no reason for kenshi to lose to cage ever.Okay, I finished watching the rest of this, here's what I think of the discussed topics, for what it's worth:
Matchup bills 1:
I do think Kitana has more to work with against Kenshi than some of Kenshi's other 8-2s, and therefore it's a 7-3, buuuuut:
I have to disagree with Kenshi/Cage not being 8-2, in the hands of a seasoned Kenshi player in that matchup specifically, there is honestly nothing Cage is better at. Even up close, Kenshi has more freedom since the Cage player is too paranoid about when Kenshi will cash in with armor/Charge.
I also can't see Cage going 5-5 with Freddy, regardless of stage size. If you learn how to buffer D1~NMS properly within pressure (admittedly it's probably awkward to do online), there's not much Cage can do about it, if he attempts to counterpoke with F3, it'll whiff and give you leeway to bus driver uppercut him into 40% with NMS1 lol.
The top 5/10 discussion:
I think most would agree the top 6 goes like this in NPO:
Kabal, Cyrax, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Sonya, Freddy.
That leaves 4 slots, and even then, there's about 10 different characters vying for them:
Cage, Reptile, Liu Kang, Kitana, Smoke, Shang, Skarlet, Jax, Sektor, Raiden.
Now, you can make a stronger case for some more than others, but honestly, I don't think any of them are a lock. The "there's no way a character that has X, Y and Z is not top 10" argument doesn't really hold much weight in a game as wholly messed up as MK9 lol.
Matchup bills 2:
Shang vs Smoke and Cyrax - Being able to soul steal makes sense on paper as far as neutering the matchup goes, but due to the nature of how they dish out their damage, it doesn't really give enough time to do a 160% BNB or whatever.
Also, soul steal exploits are not impractical in a real match. It all depends on how much advantage the last move you used before the morphback grants.
Smoke vs Freddy being 8-2 - Okay, hands up, who actually thinks this besides Croatian-Americans with normalphobia?
That's pretty much all I have to say. Good shit to Reo, Wiz and Clark, NEC can't some soon enough.
ehh. Doesn't really convince me of anything. Mikes a good player. But my opinion is exactly the same after watching that. I didn't see anything new. I mained both of those characters and played the mu as both so many times. REO lost one match but he didn't have to. Every now and then there is a fluke win for cage in a kenshi cage set. But once the kenshi player gets into his groove theres no winning for cage anymore.
Well I'm happy were actually discussing the bulk of the matter now (rather than 1 move). Now for sure this is a terrible mu for cage. But what reo is trying to argue is if kenshi v subzero is 8-2, how is kenshi v cage 8-2. Because cage is a far better character than sub isI think some players on this site judge that mu based on tournament footage of really short sets like that one. But the dominance of kenshi in that mu really starts to show in much longer sets. What was that? like 3-1 or 2-1 Reo? You say mike got a round like I should be impressed. I mean he is an impressive cage player. But if they would of played 20 matches i bet it would of been 19-1 reo and that 1 round would of looked a lot less impressive. It really is just a bad mu. If cage ever wins I always say its the kenshi player's fault. Because I've player that mu enough to know that it is. If a cage player won a first to ten against someone like pigs kenshi, or even won 3 games out of the ten, then I'd change my mind. But thats not going to happen cus that mu suuucckkss for cage
That's a valid argument. But what if Kenshi-Sub was worse than 8-2? Just throwing it out there. I don't really know the number, but if say, Pig and Tom were to make a case that it's a 9-1, I wouldn't find it too outrageous.Well I'm happy were actually discussing the bulk of the matter now (rather than 1 move). Now for sure this is a terrible mu for cage. But what reo is trying to argue is if kenshi v subzero is 8-2, how is kenshi v cage 8-2. Because cage is a far better character than sub is
.But what reo is trying to argue is if kenshi v subzero is 8-2, how is kenshi v cage 8-2. Because cage is a far better character than sub is
I wouldn't go as far as to say he should never win. I stand by the assessment that there's no situations where Cage has the advantage in that matchup, but it's still possible to outplay your opponent in a 2-8.I agree about Kenshi. Idc what numbers you put on that mu, there is no reason cage should ever win. Just none. Unless the kenshi player is drunk, there is just no reason for kenshi to lose to cage ever.
No disrespect, but REO doesn't exactly fit the description of a 'seasoned' Kenshi player.
For the record, I currently do think Kenshi/Sub is a 9-1. But I understand the essence of the argument, a line has to be drawn before we start talking about -2-12s lol.That's a valid argument. But what if Kenshi-Sub was worse than 8-2? Just throwing it out there. I don't really know the number, but if say, Pig and Tom were to make a case that it's a 9-1, I wouldn't find it too outrageous.
No. The first match might be 8-2 . The first match for whatever reason is usually winnable. But after the kenshi player adapts, the cage player's mind plateus because of the lack of neccessary tools to win and its loss after loss from that point forward. That's usually how that mu plays out. He's not winning after the kenshi player adapts, he's just not.I wouldn't go as far as to say he should never win. I stand by the assessment that there's no situations where Cage has the advantage in that matchup, but it's still possible to outplay your opponent in a 2-8.
No disrespect, but REO doesn't exactly fit the description of a 'seasoned' Kenshi player.
For the record, I currently do think Kenshi/Sub is a 9-1. But I understand the essence of the argument, a line has to be drawn before we start talking about -2-12s lol.
I Dont think "better character" overall determines that a specific matchup is either better or worse for a character. It should be based individually on the specific character and his tools vs the opposing characters tools. For example, some argue that sub beats cage 6-4 and that cage beats smoke 6-4 but clearly the overall "better character" between smoke and sub zero would be smoke (which no one in their right mind would argue against). Now I'm not saying that sub vs kenshi is any better or worse than cage vs kenshi but it shouldn't have anything to do with the "better character" to determine this, it should be done on a matchup by matchup basisWell I'm happy were actually discussing the bulk of the matter now (rather than 1 move). Now for sure this is a terrible mu for cage. But what reo is trying to argue is if kenshi v subzero is 8-2, how is kenshi v cage 8-2. Because cage is a far better character than sub is