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Frame Data Algebra: How to check and find frame data you don't know

Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Eddy Wang said:
Its just that they didn't grew up with it, and i don't think that is going to change now unless of course if someday they decide to get more in depth in any fighting game.
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Nobody had frame data back in the Arcade days. But now, there's really no exuse not to use it. It's really a matter of using all the available info about the game to gain any and every advantage possible to win.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Rip Torn said:
Nobody had frame data back in the Arcade days. But now, there's really no exuse not to use it. It's really a matter of using all the available info about the game to gain any and every advantage possible to win.
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please tell them that, because i did, and some of them don't care, they think they can win purely with fundamentals alone, that is never going to work.

In order to spice things up so they could care about frame data and catch up i threat them "even in Street Fighter which is your world, there will be a time i will become the dominant player". They said they wouldn't let me, but its slowly happening, i'm becoming dominat the more i get familiarized with how exactly this game works.
 
TKB

TKB

Warrior
Eddy Wang said:
please tell them that, because i did, and some of them don't care, they think they can win purely with fundamentals alone, that is never going to work.

In order to spice things up so they could care about frame data and catch up i threat them "even in Street Fighter which is your world, there will be a time i will become the dominant player". They said they wouldn't let me, but its slowly happening, i'm becoming dominat the more i get familiarized with how exactly this game works.
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Maybe not to get first but I'm pretty sure ChrisG mopped everyone up with pure fundamentals using a low tier character lol. He obviously isn't ignorant to frame data but I don't think hes spent the time breaking everything down at all.(in injustice)
 
DarkSlayerSmith

DarkSlayerSmith

Fundamentals in real life
ChrisG is a rare specimen in fundamentals i'm pretty sure he only learn about FD just the enuff amount of of it to increase its skills.
but the thing is,you have to learn just the exact amount of knowledge of it to improve both execution and fundamentals,not all of it,the problem with the gaming crew of our country is that they just rather(and want to)only do it RAW!
 
RM Nubcakes

RM Nubcakes

On the grind again
coolwhip said:
Yeah, I originally estimated 12 cb as +7 as I mentioned in @Jaiyson's status update. Following the same formula, I think B11 cb is either +3 or +4 (probably the latter), and as you said, 112 cb is well over +10 but I don't think it's as high as +23, though you're right, it doesn't matter since you can follow it up with pretty much anything.
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I'm pretty sure b11~trait cancel is +4. This is what allows BM to stuff flash's reversal uppercut with a follow-up b1. If it were +3, the two moves would be trading at best, given that the b1 is coming out ASAP after cb.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I like frame data. Let's me know that certain moves are way better than they appear so I can downplay
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
DarthArma said:
Framiest Frame data frame wise?!?!?!?!

This question has been brought up a few times, so im gonna answer how I know this once and for all. Not saying that NOBODY ON HERE KNOWS THIS, but I think there are alot of people out there, especially casual players (nothing wrong with that ;)) who might not know how we know certain unlisted frame data. Get your pencils out!!!

Chapter 2
(this is chapter 2 because if you don't understand how frame data works, this wont make sense to you)


First thing you want to do is set the AI options to reversal and pick an attack. (make sure the dummy is set to block unless you want to see the frame advantage on hit) The most ideal one is lex's CC because its 6 frames, however keep in mind that it does have a travel time so it is only 6 frames if your right next to him. For strings such as 112x, you might need to pick a different character and wake up attack. From what I gathered, 112xxCallBat is between plus 15 and plus 23 on block. I need to test with another move, but it's kinda pointless to be splitting hairs at that point with that much block advantage.

So anyway lets get into this,


the missing frame data is "X" such as the batmans 12xxTrait (To call out the mechanical bats) or ANYTHING xxTrait.


X+13 frame move (batmans stand 3) = lex CC (6 frame move) . What do you think "X" in this equation equals. Equal signifies that the move traded. 12xxTrait+ stand 3 will trade with CC everytime as long as you do it FRAME PERFECT! there is human error when performing your side so keep that in mind.

Further test our theory ...


X+ (batmans F2 headbutt) 14 frame move > Lex C C(6 frame). The Greater than sign actually signifies that the "greater move lost to the other, and thats because the "greater" move has MORE start up frames. This move will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER beat the CC in this situation. so its safe to mark it with the ">" symbol

Let's keep going...

X+ 12 frame move (b2 Batarang swipe) < Lex CC (6 frames) The lesser move now beats the CC. Less signifying that it has LESS start up frames. This move will always BEAT CC as long as you get it frame perfect!!! PERFECT!!!!!! no room for a single frame of error!


From this Data, we know that Batmans 12xxTrait (call bats) is plus 7!!!! DING DING DING!!!!!

Apply it to anything else but be careful of variables such as spacing, or incorrect LISTED frame data.

You can use this equation to find out the frame data on everything thats missing in the game, or anything that you might find "Questionable"

This is how people use to do(and in some games still do) to find out frame data before it was handed to us.
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OMG THE NERDINESS...

Arma i actually think this is a little complicated... but i like it... you should discuss cancel advantage if i didn't miss it.
 
RM Nubcakes

RM Nubcakes

On the grind again
VenomX-90 said:
Just f*cking practice and adapt, geez.
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What's wrong with including knowledge and understanding of moveset qualities into one's practice? I also think that it'd be hard to make efficient and effective adaptations to your opponent's gameplay if you don't truly understand both your and your opponents options after a certain move on block/hit/whiff.
 
VenomX-90

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
Nubcakes said:
What's wrong with including knowledge and understanding of moveset qualities into one's practice? I also think that it'd be hard to make efficient and effective adaptations to your opponent's gameplay if you don't truly understand both your and your opponents options after a certain move on block/hit/whiff.
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I never really said it was bad per say, I said it as a quasi joke. I just never really thought numbers had a big role in it. lol
 
Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Champion
I want to do this to test the gaps in injustice to see how many frames they are. Is there a clear cut method for testing cancel advantage or frame gaps?
 
DarthArma

DarthArma

Warrior
Protagonist_1 said:
I want to do this to test the gaps in injustice to see how many frames they are. Is there a clear cut method for testing cancel advantage or frame gaps?
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No really sure how to work with cancel advantage being that so many strings in this game have them either at the end, middle, or beginning. For example, 112 is negative a billion on block but thats only because the animation takes sooooo long to recover from, but if you cancel out of it with trait you're plus a bajillion.

Not really sure how to figure out what you're looking for though
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
DarthArma said:
No really sure how to work with cancel advantage being that so many strings in this game have them either at the end, middle, or beginning. For example, 112 is negative a billion on block but thats only because the animation takes sooooo long to recover from, but if you cancel out of it with trait you're plus a bajillion.
Not really sure how to figure out what you're looking for though
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Noone gave us cancel advantage data whether it was somberness or NRS. I find it odd somewhat considering Mk9 had many balancing issues as a result of it. If you gave me cancel advantage and special duration frames for every chaacter i could tell you precisely what was broken easy.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Peckapowa said:
Noone gave us cancel advantage data whether it was somberness or NRS. I find it odd somewhat considering Mk9 had many balancing issues as a result of it. If you gave me cancel advantage and special duration frames for every chaacter i could tell you precisely what was broken easy.
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Yeah I don't think there is a definitive way to find cancel advantage. Thankfully MKX will provide cancel advantage in game.
 
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