Perfect Legend Wins Mortal Kombat 9 at Summer Jam 8

[16 Bit]

Yhm... no.

Just don't make assumption about Kenshi... like never again.

That tier list is like the least controversial tier list ever. That is the conventional wisdom from most top players. Who doesn't have Kenshi as higher tier than Kung Lao...?


Kenshi was broke, man. Sorry.

 

[Immortal]

That tier list is like the least controversial tier list ever. That is the conventional wisdom from most top players. Who doesn't have Kenshi as higher tier than Kung Lao...?

I respect you so i won't argue much but at this point in MK9 life i sorta disagree. Imo Kenshi has way more 5-5 (with slight disadvantage which can be 4-6 for somebody else) then Lao. If you factor only loosing mu's then yea i agree.

Beside that no tier list is "least controversial" on TYM. And to be completely honest even "top players" never really agreed on MK9 tier list it was always drama.

 

[16 Bit]

I respect you so i won't argue much but at this point in MK9 life i sorta disagree. Imo Kenshi has way more 5-5 (with slight disadvantage which can be 4-6 for somebody else) then Lao. If you factor only loosing mu's then yea i agree.

Kenshi decimates more characters than Kung Lao, both in total numbers(meaning including shitters) and just relevant competitive characters. Kenshi 3-7s other top tier and top 10 conversation characters. I don't think there's a reasonable match up chart where Kenshi has more losing matches than Kung Lao either.

I don't want to hear any of the old bills about like Noob, Scorpion or Sindel giving Kenshi trouble either.

 

[Immortal]

Kenshi decimates more characters than Kung Lao, both in total numbers(meaning including shitters) and just relevant competitive characters. Kenshi 3-7s other top tier and top 10 conversation characters. I don't think there's a reasonable match up chart where Kenshi has more losing matches than Kung Lao either.

I don't want to hear any of the old bills about like Noob, Scorpion or Sindel giving Kenshi trouble either.

Once more he doesn't have more loosing mu's then Kung Lao i never said anything like that. However he has more even mu's then KL imo. And sure he destroys like half of the cast mostly lower tier + some high tier's not arguing that. Overall he's great i just don't agree that he is second to Kabal only.

Thou once more i respect your opinion.

 

[Big Pampering]

I still disagree with him being lower in tier lists then Kenshi. Just because Kenshi got several 5-5 but it's like i have to work hard to make it look like 5-5 while for my oponnent it's 5-5 regardless.

Lol, kung lao doesn't have 5-5's?

 

[Immortal]

Lol, kung lao doesn't have 5-5's?

Where did i say he doesn't have 5-5? I said that IMO Kenshi has more 5-5 then KL, nothing more. Let's not go with this "lol, shit" etc crap and discus like a normal people.

 

[coolwhip]

Where did i say he doesn't have 5-5? I said that IMO Kenshi has more 5-5 then KL, nothing more. Let's not go with this "lol, shit" etc crap and discus like a normal people.

It's funny you say that now after your initial douchey condescending reply. Also, by what logic does a character who has more losing match-ups than another character be better just because he (allegedly) has less even match-ups? Especially when the character with supposedly more even match-ups absolutely destroys a good portion of the cast.

 

[Flagg]

Nightwolf outzones Kenshi with lightening!

Rain as well.

Kenshi#fraudulent

 

[Big Pampering]

Where did i say he doesn't have 5-5? I said that IMO Kenshi has more 5-5 then KL, nothing more. Let's not go with this "lol, shit" etc crap and discus like a normal people.

Okay I will discuss as a normal people...

Kung lao beats characters like noob or sheeva really bad. But in no way does he beat characters above bottom 10 like worse than 7-3. All his 7-3's are on the edge of 6-4 too, we are talking about characters like mileena and reptile for example.

Who does kenshi lose to? or go 5-5 with? Could you list them because I really am curious what you think about his matchups. Also Kenshi bodies characters like cage and kitana who are probably top 10 for christs sake.

 

[Big Pampering]

btw top 3 is evo champs only? Where is @Denzell Curry?

 

[Immortal]

It's funny you say that now after your initial douchey condescending reply. Also, by what logic does a character who has more losing match-ups than another character be better just because he (allegedly) has less even match-ups? Especially when the character with supposedly more even match-ups absolutely destroys a good portion of the cast.

Okay I will discuss as a normal people...

Kung lao beats characters like noob or sheeva really bad. But in no way does he beat characters above bottom 10 like worse than 7-3. All his 7-3's are on the edge of 6-4 too, we are talking about characters like mileena and reptile for example.

Who does kenshi lose to? or go 5-5 with? Could you list them because I really am curious what you think about his matchups. Also Kenshi bodies characters like cage and kitana who are probably top 10 for christs sake.

@coolwhip -Yea i was kinda "wtf" when i saw that tier list. I'm sorry about that.

How many bad MU Kung Lao has by you? For me Kenshi obviously loses to Kabal, Kung Lao and Cyrax (don't understand why people believed this one was even) and has several even MU's which to me are slightly disadvantages like : Smoke, Freddy, Skarlet.

By this i mean i have to work hard to make it look like even MU while they don't.

Sure Kenshi destroys Kitana/Cage no argue here, it's obvious. And yes again he destroys like all low tiers and some mid tiers which are mostly irrelevant on competitive level coz nobody plays them anyway.

 

[coolwhip]

@coolwhip -Yea i was kinda "wtf" when i saw that tier list. I'm sorry about that.

How many bad MU Kung Lao has by you? For me Kenshi obviously loses to Kabal, Kung Lao and Cyrax (don't understand why people believed this one was even) and has several even MU's which to me are slightly disadvantages like : Smoke, Freddy, Skarlet.

By this i mean i have to work hard to make it look like even MU while they don't.

Sure Kenshi destroys Kitana/Cage no argue here, it's obvious. And yes again he destroys like all low tiers and some mid tiers which are mostly irrelevant on competitive level coz nobody plays them anyway.

Kung Lao loses to Kabal, Cage, Sonya, Kitana and Cyrax for sure. Others are debatable (PL swears he loses to Ermac but I don't agree), but those are incontestable.

 

[Immortal]

Kung Lao loses to Kabal, Cage, Sonya, Kitana and Cyrax for sure. Others are debatable (PL swears he loses to Ermac but I don't agree), but those are incontestable.

Okay so by you he has like 5 bad mu's. Which is only two less then Kenshi by me. So how the heck people (not only you to be clear) can place him like on 5th place or even below Top 5 and at the same time place Kenshi as 2nd?!

And like i said i feel that those "even" mu's for Kenshi are in reality slightly disadvantageous for him.

 

[Hidan]

Unless you're in the EU, then the tier list is like:
1) Sub Zero
....
...
...
[everyone else]

I hope you don't mean Europe and if you do, I assume you're referring to online play

 

[TomlulsBrady]

Kung Lao loses to Kabal, Cage, Sonya, Kitana and Cyrax for sure. Others are debatable (PL swears he loses to Ermac but I don't agree), but those are incontestable.

Actually carl as of recent has changed his mind about kabal, cage, and I think cyrax. He views them as all 5-5s and thinks sonya is the best char in the game, and I am the one who asked Carl about ermac on his stream lol. PL and jwong back in 2011 thought ermac beat kung lao and I asked Carl why did he use to think that and he told me in his stream that day he still does.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I hope you don't mean Europe and if you do, I assume you're referring to online play

Greece and the UK have been saying Sub is number 1 since day 1!

Haven't we?

(I havent't)

 

[Zoidberg747]

One day I'll beat someone on stream.

One day.

Nice Job getting fifth

 

[Cossner]

Nice Job getting fifth

COSSNER! So hype to see a Reptile in top 8, and tbh I'm glad it's you bro.

Also, big ups to all the players - that's a fuckin' all star line-up right thar.

Ty too bad I crashed and burned ;_;

 

[Desperdicio]

Is this going to be uploaded to youtube?

 

[STRYKIE]

Hmm, no idea this had such a good turnout at Summerjam, should be a good watch.

It's funny you say that now after your initial douchey condescending reply. Also, by what logic does a character who has more losing match-ups than another character be better just because he (allegedly) has less even match-ups? Especially when the character with supposedly more even match-ups absolutely destroys a good portion of the cast.

If we went by losing matchups exclusively, KL doesn't have as many problems as Kenshi IMO. But as previously mentioned, by the magnitude of advantageous matchups, Kenshi makes up the ground and then some, so he probably is ahead of KL essentially.

That being said, a significant amount of Kenshi's 7-3+ matchups are rarely put a name to and turn out to be hear-say. Granted, a lot of characters you would think Kenshi bodies free yet actually do well were just lucky enough to have a weird loophole for the Kenshi matchup, whereas the bad matchups for the rest of the top tier generally come down to contrasting designs, and I dunno about how even matchups come into play concerning that much, but that's probably what he meant about the assumption part.

Also, just an observation, can we please stop measuring MK9's top tier by a list of 5? When 6 different characters frequent the top 5 discussion, I think that speaks for how redundant the whole 'X character is not top X' argument is.

Actually carl as of recent has changed his mind about kabal, cage, and I think cyrax. He views them as all 5-5s and thinks sonya is the best char in the game, and I am the one who asked Carl about ermac on his stream lol. PL and jwong back in 2011 thought ermac beat kung lao and I asked Carl why did he use to think that and he told me in his stream that day he still does.

I'm not saying you or PL are wrong, but by recently, do you mean 5 days ago? I don't think he's had a consistent opinion about any matchup in MK9.

 

[coolwhip]

Actually carl as of recent has changed his mind about kabal, cage, and I think cyrax. He views them as all 5-5s and thinks sonya is the best char in the game, and I am the one who asked Carl about ermac on his stream lol. PL and jwong back in 2011 thought ermac beat kung lao and I asked Carl why did he use to think that and he told me in his stream that day he still does.

PL is the best KL by a country mile but he changes his mind about his match-ups so much that it's hard to put too much stock.

 

[coolwhip]

Okay so by you he has like 5 bad mu's. Which is only two less then Kenshi by me. So how the heck people (not only you to be clear) can place him like on 5th place or even below Top 5 and at the same time place Kenshi as 2nd?!

And like i said i feel that those "even" mu's for Kenshi are in reality slightly disadvantageous for him.

...because everyone people place ahead of KL have fewer losing match-ups.

 

[ForeverKing]

PL is the best KL by a country mile but he changes his mind about his match-ups so much that it's hard to put too much stock.

Disagree

 

[ForeverKing]

Okay so by you he has like 5 bad mu's. Which is only two less then Kenshi by me. So how the heck people (not only you to be clear) can place him like on 5th place or even below Top 5 and at the same time place Kenshi as 2nd?!

And like i said i feel that those "even" mu's for Kenshi are in reality slightly disadvantageous for him.

I put Kenshi at number 3 and Cyrax at number 2. But anyways Kenshi beats alot of the cast worse than Kung Lao does and loses to less characters. Which makes him obviously higher on the tier list. So what if Kenshi has more 5-5's. He is still more dominant overall

 

[zaf]

PL is the best KL by a country mile but he changes his mind about his match-ups so much that it's hard to put too much stock.

a lot of good kung laos have said that KL loses to ermac.
pboard player also believes so and he mains both characters
i have even seen pboard beat forever king in that match up and then king change from kunglao to someone else...