Which match-up chart would you rather have?

[TKB]

Aaron, I agree. On paper, she def. beats him. Is 6-4 KF not accurate? Are people saying it's 7-3? I mean, I never know what number to apply to MU's...but imo she def. beats him "on paper".

Nah some people said possible 6-4 and some said 5-5(which is what I think). What advantage she has over him from far away he makes up for when they play footsies. They both have annoying vortexes, only Sinestro doesn't have to use meter for his. Corner game is pretty equal, maybe slightly better for Sinestro. His BGB stuff is definitely better too.

 

[RunwayMafia]

You ARE approaching "this silly game of numbers" and theories.

I will ask a more direct question.

Which one of you Killer Frost players has ever beaten Cowboy or Playing To Win in a series (i.e., in tournament or casual casual games) to make objective observers believe that "she beats Sinestro AT LEAST 6:4"?

LMAO, I responded to my friend who tagged me and I provided my "thoughts". I'm terribly sorry it didn't align perfectly with your agenda.

 

[TKB]

Sinestro not being able to charge trait whenever he wants isn't a sign a match is "hard" for Sinestro. It's a sign he doesn't win 7-3.

I agree. Didn't say that makes the whole match hard for him; just stating what KF can do to hinder his game.

 

[dribirut]

Well then, you can go somewhere else. It looks like people agree with me since WW is leading the poll.

Cowboy what's up with your avatar

 

[dribirut]

Sinestro not being able to charge trait whenever he wants isn't a sign a match is "hard" for Sinestro. It's a sign he doesn't win 7-3.

This times a million

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Sinestro not being able to charge trait whenever he wants isn't a sign a match is "hard" for Sinestro. It's a sign he doesn't win 7-3.

Actually, he loses to some characters that don't check the trait charge especially well. Batman still beats him despite Sinestro being able to charge the trait, as well as Martian. The trait is his best tool, so I don't see how you can say that matches where he can't get it very well aren't hard for him.

 

[16 Bit]

Actually, he loses to some characters that don't check the trait charge especially well. Batman still beats him despite Sinestro being able to charge the trait, as well as Martian. The trait is his best tool, so I don't see how you can say that matches where he can't get it very well aren't hard for him.

Those are matches where he gets out footsied. He out footsies Killer Frost so him getting trait is icing on the cake.

He can punish Iceberg anyway so it's not like a free check.

 

[TKB]

Those are matches where he gets out footsied. He out footsies Killer Frost so him getting trait is icing on the cake.

He can punish Iceberg anyway so it's not like a free check.

How does he punish iceberg other than right In front of him...? Serious question I didn't know that.

 

[M2Dave]

LMAO, I responded to my friend who tagged me and I provided my "thoughts". I'm terribly sorry it didn't align perfectly with your agenda.

My agenda is calling you a fool for providing no evidence after claiming that Sinestro gets beat badly.

 

[Vagrant]

Zod loses convincingly to Martian Manhunter, yet both characters are perfectly tournament viable in everybody's opinion.

2nd at Evo isn't viable enough for you?

 

[16 Bit]

How does he punish iceberg other than right In front of him...? Serious question I didn't know that.

Shackles.

 

[Crathen]

I'm with WoundCowboy.

I also find hard to belive Killer Frost doesn't beat Sinestro 6-4 , daggers win trades , spike can punish fear blast , slide can go under it , she can whiff punish b12 easily , Sinestro doesn't have fast lows to check her after slide and her damage+mixup fares well vs Sinestro vortex damage.

I don't buy the propaganda that Sinestro is this top 5 character that everyone doesn't know about.

He's a good character tho.

 

[16 Bit]

If Killer Frost is sliding under Fear Blasts then the Sinestro player needs to stop spamming Fear Blasts and beat the slide with his multiple options to do so. The fact that Sinestro can't play every part of his game without consequence does not make it a bad matchup. She can't play her game either, she gets utterly out footsied. We've seen Frost players struggle in these types of matchups for over a year now. It's time to stop the super outdated talking points. Pig had almost figured this match out before EVO 2013 when Sinestro didn't even have a safe b+1,2. Bills all day.

 

[TKB]

Shackles.

Thanks

 

[RunwayMafia]

My agenda is calling you a fool for providing no evidence after claiming that Sinestro gets beat badly.

Nooooo honey, your "evidence" is "OMG...what KF 'players' have EVER beaten Cowboy or P2W!!!??? By this logic the character MUST go even with her or beat her!!!". Where as I look at tools and what not....I mean if you guys think it's 5-5 that's fine, it probably is. I def. can't beat cowboy in a real set, but I'm sure Khaotik or someone else can. I just think KF has the potential of doing more harm to Sinestro than vice versa (everyone forgets about her trait).

The insinuation that Cowboy is successful BECAUSE of Sinestro is laughable and stupid. I advocate casual observers to formulate their own opinion as opposed to just simply cosigning on the obvious groupthink going on here....

By the way, I'm flattered you labeled me one of your infamous "fools". <3

 

[Crathen]

If Killer Frost is sliding under Fear Blasts then the Sinestro player needs to stop spamming Fear Blasts and beat the slide with his multiple options to do so. The fact that Sinestro can't play every part of his game without consequence does not make it a bad matchup. She can't play her game either, she gets utterly out footsied. We've seen Frost players struggle in these types of matchups for over a year now. It's time to stop the super outdated talking points. Pig had almost figured this match out before EVO 2013 when Sinestro didn't even have a safe b+1,2. Bills all day.

Ok , i wanna hear @WoundCowboy opinion on this.

Beating her slide in wich way? Jumping back doesn't get him anything other than getting outzoned / traded with daggers , how does sinestro win the fireball game. So he inches forward through daggers and gets into slide range, again does he guess on the slide bait or try to get in? What good reward mixups does he have that aren't blocked high i ask.

Sinestro opens up players when they have to take risk getting in because they lose the zoning game , if he doesn't win that then how does he force killer frost to open herself up.

Let's not pretend not being able to use Fear Blast safely isn't a problem , this way he doesn't build as much meter nor gets decent chip damage.

It's not Sinestro players problem that Killer Frost doesn't have a good enough player.

 

[M2Dave]

2nd at Evo isn't viable enough for you?

What are you talking about, fool?

I said "perfectly tournament viable".

 

[Kyu]

Just gonna put this out here RunwayMafia is one legit Killer Frost player, he knows his stuff.

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Sinestro's b+1,2 beats slide clean. He out footsies her badly. She can't trip guard an empty jump back so he can use jump back and jump back axe to change the timing and it's a huge problem for her. The Sinestro community is selling everyone a bill on that MU being horrible for him. I suspect Sinestro in fact beats Killer Frost. He follows the formula for her bad MU.

Why the hell would a killer frost player slide while im jumping back? Thats a blatant attempt to stuff slide and actually results in her punishing my jump back with daggers into iceberg. And i wouldnt jump back to stuff a wakeup slide because i would never knock her down within slide range. If im going to get a hit on her and knock her down its going to send her fullscreen.

 

[RM Truth]

Why the hell would a killer frost player slide while im jumping back? Thats a blatant attempt to stuff slide and actually results in her punishing my jump back with daggers into iceberg. And i wouldnt jump back to stuff a wakeup slide because i would never knock her down within slide range. If im going to get a hit on her and knock her down its going to send her fullscreen.

Trip guarding.

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Nooooo honey, your "evidence" is "OMG...what KF 'players' have EVER beaten Cowboy or P2W!!!??? By this logic the character MUST go even with her or beat her!!!". Where as I look at tools and what not....I mean if you guys think it's 5-5 that's fine, it probably is. I def. can't beat cowboy in a real set, but I'm sure Khaotik or someone else can. I just think KF has the potential of doing more harm to Sinestro than vice versa (everyone forgets about her trait).

The insinuation that Cowboy is successful BECAUSE of Sinestro is laughable and stupid. I advocate casual observers to formulate their own opinion as opposed to just simply cosigning on the obvious groupthink going on here....

By the way, I'm flattered you labeled me one of your infamous "fools". <3

Im pretty sure khaotik beat p2w 3-0 one time in tournament. Thats the only time i've seen one of the top sin reps play a top kf rep in tourney action

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Trip guarding.

People have been baiting a trip guarding slide by jumping back for a year now. If they are stupid or ballsy enough to do it they i guess they deserve to get punished

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Ok , i wanna hear @WoundCowboy opinion on this.

Beating her slide in wich way? Jumping back doesn't get him anything other than getting outzoned / traded with daggers , how does sinestro win the fireball game. So he inches forward through daggers and gets into slide range, again does he guess on the slide bait or try to get in? What good reward mixups does he have that aren't blocked high i ask.

Sinestro opens up players when they have to take risk getting in because they lose the zoning game , if he doesn't win that then how does he force killer frost to open herself up.

Let's not pretend not being able to use Fear Blast safely isn't a problem , this way he doesn't build as much meter nor gets decent chip damage.

It's not Sinestro players problem that Killer Frost doesn't have a good enough player.

Sinestro's gamplan in the matchup is not to zone. He has to jump around like a fool to exploit Frost's lack of air control which will results in:
-punishing a slide with an air axe or jump back normal
-jumping in on her for damage or a block string
-Getting in b12 range and using it to beat out her slide or daggers.

Having said that, Frost has ways to counter all of this and put Sinestro into a vortex (which does more than Sinestro's vortex). This matchup is probably 5-5.

 

[16 Bit]

Ok , i wanna hear @WoundCowboy opinion on this.

Beating her slide in wich way? Jumping back doesn't get him anything other than getting outzoned / traded with daggers , how does sinestro win the fireball game. So he inches forward through daggers and gets into slide range, again does he guess on the slide bait or try to get in? What good reward mixups does he have that aren't blocked high i ask.

Sinestro opens up players when they have to take risk getting in because they lose the zoning game , if he doesn't win that then how does he force killer frost to open herself up.

Let's not pretend not being able to use Fear Blast safely isn't a problem , this way he doesn't build as much meter nor gets decent chip damage.

It's not Sinestro players problem that Killer Frost doesn't have a good enough player.

He doesn't win the fireball game. He gets into jump range then makes her scared to throw daggers by jumping in or taking a risk on Fear Blast. Then she starts playing footsies where she loses and has to take more risk than him.

 

[16 Bit]

Why the hell would a killer frost player slide while im jumping back? Thats a blatant attempt to stuff slide and actually results in her punishing my jump back with daggers into iceberg. And i wouldnt jump back to stuff a wakeup slide because i would never knock her down within slide range. If im going to get a hit on her and knock her down its going to send her fullscreen.

She won't slide when she sees you jump back. She just happened to slide and you had jumped back. Just like she doesn't see your jump and throw daggers. These are all guesses.