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War of the Normalized, "Fallen Gods of Injustice": Black Adam vs Superman

Who is a better character?

  • Total voters
    110
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Crathen said:
I get your point but let's look at facts , how many Black Adams consistently use blockstrings into crossup/fake crossup DK or 13 knockdown into 50/50 mb DK , i still see missed MB DK combos unlike Superman ABC combos.

Ease of use is a factor you should weight in when you judge a character.
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i disagree with this, i think a lack of use could be attributed to lack of player commitment to the character or players still needing more game time to develop. Remember we have a very small community without enough tip top players to go around to untap a characters potential entirely. Now if there is a significant execution gap to the point where in the long haul that execution is too difficult to implement (which it almost never is because look at mvc2, or smash melee or starcraft) than i would consider it a factor, or if something is too hard to react and do consistently that it is different.... but judging how good a character is by ease of use in my opinion is really really missing th e point entirely. I mean doomsday is stronger in tournament than he is in tiers or long sets jsut by the nature of his player but i won't call him better because of it.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Peckapowa said:
lets not judge how good a character is by execution, when discussing tiers or character viability it refers to the highest level of play... neither character is execution heavy enough to debate the viability of that execution in regards to character viability.
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I understand your point but execution is definitely a key factor in high level play. I really don't feel like typing my reasons so I'll just ask you why isn't it a factor?
 
Error

Error

DF2+R2
This thread is relevant to my interests.

Superman is better because while he was nerfed, his core gameplay is still pretty much the same, he just can't lock you down forever with f23 Breath anymore and he doesn't do 70%+ in the corner, which his resets can make up for anyways. Only big gameplay change is that he can't use air lasers recklessly anymore.

With Black Adam, his main tools were nerfed so now he has to approach things much differently, his zoning was weakened, his advantage off of divekicks was nerfed both directly and indirectly with the forward dash nerfs, and he can't lame people out as effectively with his backdash nerf, which also affects his whiff punishing. His buffs did little to address that since they only apply after he's opened the opponent up. Sure divebomb resets are "unsafe" but bootstomp oki costs meter and doesn't otg.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Vengeance135 said:
I understand your point but execution is definitely a key factor in high level play. I really don't feel like typing my reasons so I'll just ask you why isn't it a factor?
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execution wise black adam isn't at the point of a c viper or zod or kabal to the point where it hinders game player in my opinion. I still won't judge characters based on tournament player limitations if i think a player can/could untap potential. There were definetly lost causes in mk9, for example freddy had only one really solid represantivie in tournaments.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Peckapowa said:
i disagree with this, i think a lack of use could be attributed to lack of player commitment to the character or players still needing more game time to develop. Remember we have a very small community without enough tip top players to go around to untap a characters potential entirely. Now if there is a significant execution gap to the point where in the long haul that execution is too difficult to implement (which it almost never is because look at mvc2, or smash melee or starcraft) than i would consider it a factor, or if something is too hard to react and do consistently that it is different.... but judging how good a character is by ease of use in my opinion is really really missing th e point entirely. I mean doomsday is stronger in tournament than he is in tiers or long sets jsut by the nature of his player but i won't call him better because of it.
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Well i'm saying it is a factor , not the whole character , the ease of use factor comes up when you're trying to maximize a character potential cap and a single drop can make the difference between winning or losing , that's the deal w it easy to use characters do not make for a better MU number as it takes a robotic and mechanical approach to the game where you don't drop small frame window links / moves but it does make a character more consistent in a real match , that's why it's a fighting game and not chess match.

I think some setups in Injustice have a good amount of execution / timing levels and to maximize BA mixups ( wich is what most players think BA lacks ) you kinda need em to open up the other player , while superman has it way easier w divebomb setups , that's why i consider it a factor in THIS discussion.

That said i think everyone is saying Superman is a little better and not just because he's easier to use than BA.
 
KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

The CreepFather
Superman is a easier character and better but not by much. I feel like Adam hasn't been fleshed out as much as Superman at this point in the game and the really dirty stuff that is known like corner/midscreen cross up divekicks, corner/midscreen f3 cross ups, corner wake up reversals, cross up dive kicks off interactbles etc hasn't really been seen in play because of the lack of Adam players out there now. Yea Adam was hit with the nerf hammer pretty hard but I still think his back dash is decent, forward dash is still good, his walkspeed is fucking great, still hits pretty hard with 45-55% meterless combos, 50% divekick cross up corner combos. The b23 u2 buff gave him some more set ups, being able to b3 off of the cloud was another underrated buff especially since you can mb the cloud from full screen dash up get 20-24% with a b23 u2 set up and I still think that lightning bomb is underused....Oh yea he's fucking plus on block on a lot of strings without trait. With trait those same strings become even more plus while some negative ones become plus. Adam still a good character imo just not shit compared to those great days before the patch.

I still voted Adam just to be different tho:cool:
 
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Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
@Peckapowa
Of the two, execution wise Adam is harder to use when it comes to high level. The reason I stated this as a factor is simply because humans make mistakes. More often then not players stick to what the easiest, most viable way to win the MU unless they have to start going deep down the bag of tricks to win. I agree with you on some of your points but just because you know all the tech, rather its situational or in general, doesn't mean at any point in high level play you won't mess up and that's what I'm implying. Adam is more execution heavy then Superman meaning at a high level you will have to resort to hard to pull off shit if you want to win and unless you are on point or aren't under pressure, it can be hard. Supermans tech, more or less, isn't that hard to do to be effective. The way Adam is in this current version is and that's why you aren't seeing his ass much, you need to be on point with everything you do at a high level and that's why I said what I said. I understand what you are saying, you see what I'm saying though?
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Superman, BA is still very good, but I think Superman has far more rounded and straight up better tools in every aspect I can think of at the moment.
 
Error

Error

DF2+R2
KHAOTIC_CHIEF_E_ said:
Superman is a easier charcater and better but not by much. I feel like Adam hasn't been fleshed out as much as Superman at this point in the game and the really dirty stuff that is known like corner/midscreen cross up divekicks, corner/midscreen f3 cross ups, corner wake up reversals, cross up dive kicks off interactbles etc hasn't really been seen in play because of the lack of Adam players out there now. Yea Adam was hit with the nerf hammer pretty hard but I still think his back dash is decent, forward dash is still good, his walkspeed is fucking great, still hits pretty hard with 45-55% meterless combos, 50% divekick cross up corner combos. The b23 u2 buff gave him some more set ups, being able to b3 off of the cloud was another underrated buff especially since you can mb the cloud from full screen dash up get 20-24% with a b23 u2 set up and I still think that lightning bomb is underused....Oh yea he's fucking plus on block on a lot of strings without trait. With trait those same strings become even more plus while some negative ones become plus. Adam still a good character imo just not shit compared to those great days before the patch.

I still voted Adam just to be different tho:cool:
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That feel when his corner reversal stuff doesn't work on big characters. I will say, people also underestimate his d2, if you're feeling evil d2 trait nj3 bootstomp b23u1+2 does 37%, very few characters can get that much off a d2. (Flash, Bane). I'd love to have more people to talk Adam tech because his stuff is just too awesome looking when it's pulled off.
 
KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

The CreepFather
Error said:
That feel when his corner reversal stuff doesn't work on big characters. I will say, people also underestimate his d2, if you're feeling evil d2 trait nj3 bootstomp b23u1+2 does 37%, very few characters can get that much off a d2. (Flash, Bane). I'd love to have more people to talk Adam tech because his stuff is just too awesome looking when it's pulled off.
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Oh yea forgot to mention that highly underrated d2. About the corner reversal on big characters it works for me or is it on specific wake ups it doesn't work on?
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
EMPEROR_THEO said:
Superman, free.

And yes, Superman vs. Zod is 5-5.
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how can you look at the tools on paper and tell me that is 5-5, when you consider the highest possible level of play, not when you personally went even with a really good zod player.


when you consider superman having no viable solution to full screen trait spawns, runaway, and instant airs.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I had a fucking dream tonight where I was in an outdoors party and I teamed up with Adam to fry some people, we'd be going around throwing lightnings and loudly saying "EUUUUGHH"
 
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