General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub Zero theory fighting

[TylorJockin]

So around E3 time I was watching videos and running possibilities through my mind and came up with a few concepts. I think the conversation I had with a friend of mine could sum it up nicely.

TL;DR
Sub's parry Xray combined with Ice Clone can lead to a huge threat.Even as an AA it freezes the opponent mid air. Decrease opponents options and throw them off at the threat of an Xray.

Do Sub's clones last forever? Do EX clones last forever maybe?
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1=Me 2=Friend

1-His Xray is a parry, but if the opponent is airborn it'll freeze em without doing the Xray. I dont think you realize how much more frightening it makes him omg its perfect.

2-Its an interesting thought.

1-Its not interesting its so much more scary for opponents.Holy shit Im imagining the crazy setups. Ice clone Sub with a parry has gotta be top tier. They wont be able to armor through clones,cant teleport behind you,cant jump at you, zoning could be the only option but with the risk of a trade that leads into a full combo. Just dont use any meter to build an Xray to scare your opponents into doing nothing. And if Sub gets a consistent AA normal gg

2-That sounds gdlk

1-What Im curious to know is if the only way to get rid of a clone is to throw it or break it. Maybe EX clones last forever.

2-God please no. Ice Clones forever? Please no.

1-It wouldnt be that bad cuz if you get past it, sub is cloneless. And if its EX clones only, then Xray cant be a part of the setup.

2-True but youd need to jump over it, which is risky. EVen more so if Sub has a consistent AA. Or teleports.

1-True but you forget Netherrealm armors everything lol.

2-True, but even after getting past it, a well timed throw can toss you right back into it.

1-A throw into clone and you lose 27%. Throws are techable too, so its not even guaranteed.

2-Fair enough.

1-And its Sub's biggest tool, so letting it be that gimmicky isnt too bad. Oh yeah and thats right, eviromentals in MKX are either projectile or acrobatic. SO a character without a projectile can have one, or a character without mobility can have some. Or even both and both lol.

2-Fuck you I hate MK anyway

 

[Mechacide]

In MK9 it was rarely the case that a character could escape being cloned in the corner by hitting Sub, because generally that would mean hitting the clone as well. Things like Raiden's teleport got you out, but Sub could punish if he read it. Using the XR parry wouldn't do anything in this case except waste your meter.

What kind of situation did you imagine it being useful in?

 

[TylorJockin]

In MK9 it was rarely the case that a character could escape being cloned in the corner by hitting Sub, because generally that would mean hitting the clone as well. Things like Raiden's teleport got you out, but Sub could punish if he read it. Using the XR parry wouldn't do anything in this case except waste your meter.

What kind of situation did you imagine it being useful in?

Well I imagine it like Scorpion's teleport. But with Raiden if he teleports and blocks all you gotta do is back throw him into the corner or hit him with a string and end it in EX Slide

Edit; Even if Raiden does back off full screen safely out the corner, the only thing youve lost is corner advantage. Just setup another clone and resume the mid screen game. Mid screen teleporting behind into normals can be parried, blocking will give Sub a block string into clone

 

[Peckapowa]

being able to throw his clone makes him a footsie beast especially if his poking game is real good again.

 

[Barrogh]

Do Sub's clones last forever? Do EX clones last forever maybe?

I'm not sure, but IIRC the answer was given in Tom Brady's Subs thread.

being able to throw his clone makes him a footsie beast especially if his poking game is real good again.

That is unless it's true that only ex-clone can be thrown.

 

[TylorJockin]

If a character does get in on Grandmaster Sub, parry can defuse the pressure with tons of damage as a bonus, also allowing him to clone up again and force the opponent to try again.

 

[Mechacide]

Well I imagine it like Scorpion's teleport. But with Raiden if he teleports and blocks all you gotta do is back throw him into the corner or hit him with a string and end it in EX Slide

Edit; Even if Raiden does back off full screen safely out the corner, the only thing youve lost is corner advantage. Just setup another clone and resume the mid screen game. Mid screen teleporting behind into normals can be parried, blocking will give Sub a block string into clone

But if you thought Scorpion was going to teleport out you wouldn't want to spend all your meter on a 40% punish, you'd just block and punish.

Don't get me wrong, I love that his XR starts as a parry now, I just don't see how it combines with clone to be super effective.

 

[TaffyMeat]

Forget ice clone. Subs new moves will revolve around his ground pound.

 

[G4S KT]

At this point Subz X-ray is not only an ice parry that freezes, it is also an independent attack. A 2 stage x-ray.

Go back and watch the original gameplay reveal and Scorpion gets X-ray'd without touching Subz

 

[BanTheTesters]

I was watching videos and running possibilities through my mind...

Ah ok, Brain Freeze?

 

[TaffyMeat]

Ah ok, Brain Freeze?

Yeah, Scorpion had too much Slushie

 

[TylorJockin]

But if you thought Scorpion was going to teleport out you wouldn't want to spend all your meter on a 40% punish, you'd just block and punish.

Don't get me wrong, I love that his XR starts as a parry now, I just don't see how it combines with clone to be super effective.

Xray's are unbreakable

 

[TylorJockin]

At this point Subz X-ray is not only an ice parry that freezes, it is also an independent attack. A 2 stage x-ray.

Go back and watch the original gameplay reveal and Scorpion gets X-ray'd without touching Subz

I know it's amazing! If you hold them, he become untouchable, but if you release it immediately (Or at ANY time) he will initiate the attack. So if it is ever necessary, perhaps you can parry them, dash cancel and continue a kombo that is not Xray

 

[TaffyMeat]

Xray's are unbreakable

Xray breaks Xray if both done at same time

 

[TylorJockin]

Xray breaks Xray if both done at same time

JC's Xray parried EVERYTHING. Also, in the case of Scorpion, Im sure its reactable to judge whether to Block or Parry since a parries startup is only 3 frames at MOST

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

That's a hypothesis bro.

 

[VenomX-90]

Lol

 

[TaffyMeat]

JC's Xray parried EVERYTHING. Also, in the case of Scorpion, Im sure its reactable to judge whether to Block or Parry since a parries startup is only 3 frames at MOST

Yeah well I'm talking about when two xrays clash at the same time. Don't argue about this.... no no no. Momma's gonna whoop yo in toe net.

 

[Mechacide]

Xray's are unbreakable

Yeah, but I'd still rather not use all my meter on an educated guess when I can just block. Besides, I'd want them to break and use their meter.

 

[TylorJockin]

Yeah, but I'd still rather not use all my meter on an educated guess when I can just block. Besides, I'd want them to break and use their meter.

Mid game yes, but when the health bars become down to the wire, a Clone and Xray can pretty much guarantee the round

 

[Mechacide]

Mid game yes, but when the health bars become down to the wire, a Clone and Xray can pretty much guarantee the round

But if you're both close to death, why spend all of your meter on an educated guess when that could be used for a breaker? You can just block and then XR if he teleported, same as you did in MK9.

 

[TylorJockin]

But if you're both close to death, why spend all of your meter on an educated guess when that could be used for a breaker? You can just block and then XR if he teleported, same as you did in MK9.

Where are you getting this "guess"? What are you guessing? If the round is close to the end of a match, an someone gets in on you an begins pressuring you with block strings, you mean to tell me you'd rather get hit and then break rather than just parry and close the round hassle free?

 

[TaffyMeat]

Where are you getting this "guess"? What are you guessing? If the round is close to the end of a match, an someone gets in on you an begins pressuring you with block strings, you mean to tell me you'd rather get hit and then break rather than just parry and close the round hassle free?

Example would be raiden gets hit by jc block strings and does enhanced shocker to kombo and win the round. You talk like a player who hides behind sub ice clone and expects everyone else to be of your way of thinking. Sometimes opponents do crazy things like let you win the first match to play with your mind.

 

[TylorJockin]

Good times keep rollin~

 

[Mechacide]

Where are you getting this "guess"? What are you guessing? If the round is close to the end of a match, an someone gets in on you an begins pressuring you with block strings, you mean to tell me you'd rather get hit and then break rather than just parry and close the round hassle free?

You were talking specifically about using the XR parry along with the ice clone, which you felt made Sub-Zero a huge threat. You used the example of having someone in the corner with ice clone and then using Sub's XR parry to pressure them into not getting out. I was continuing to discuss this theory.

Also, lots of things in FGs are guesses, or " reads", and your XR parry could be baited out if the opp was clever enough.