Endurace Meter Xcaling discussion

[Eddy Wang]

It has been a while since i wanted to make this thread, so this is how the Endurace meter scales, and what are the features connected to it.

The Endurace meter is divided in two stages 50% is half of it, and the other 50% is the reserve, most of its uses drains 50% of the bar, except for running who is the feature with least scaling and breaker the one with more scaling.

Full (unused): 100%
Interactable attacks: - 50%
Propelling (Corner jump, interactable jump): -50%
Backdash: -50%
Run: progressively decreasing as long as the character is running
Snow Forest's fullscreen propelling: -100% (its optional, you can do half if you want to, by: Ed Boon)
Breaker: - 100% and - 2 levels of ex Meter.

Recovery time: 2 seconds after each use (or possibly after full use?).

I remember Minh Giang was saying he prefered the recovery time to be 3 or 4 seconds, so ppl wouldn't just break if they commit a mistake, but is it really necessary? Do you think its fine as it is? Do you think 2 seconds is too short? Or do you think is fair enough?

How do you guys feel about 2 recovery times? I mean, if you use your meter before 50% it could take 2 seconds to start refilling again, but if you use exactly 50% or 100% of it would take 3 or 4 seconds to start refilling!?

Food for though, Discuss.

 

[Hanzer0]

Good write up!
I like it and i see no problem breakers. As long as super meter fills relative to mk9 then breaking costs more resources than before

Edit: voted for 2 seconds but should be 2 second startup on recovery

 

[xenogorgeous]

2 seconds seems OK, in order to break not the game fast pace .... since MKX seems to be the fastest version of MK ever made , so ....

in a game with this gameplay rhythm proposal , 1 second is something to consider, because some important gameplay actions / reactions take less than a second's fraction, so ....

 

[james1926]

It's hard to say anything without playing the game to see how things in general work. Btw, did Boon confirm that you will need 100% Endurace meter to break? Or you just speculating?

 

[Rathalos]

In theory, I would like it so you didn't regenerate endurance well holding block, and you regenerated endurance 50% slower well in hitstun or a juggle state.

However that might be a bit to punishing for players and make it so they never want to use it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

It's hard to say anything without playing the game to see how things in general work. Btw, did Boon confirm that you will need 100% Endurace meter to break? Or you just speculating?

Its in the game, check some videos with the hud in it, everytime someone breaks, not only it loses the two levels of ex meter, as also loses 100% of the endurace meter.

I think this was implemented to not break the hype of footsie games we had in MK9 someone makes a huge read out of a mistake only to get his opportunity thrown away in the breaker (Kabal running away with gas blast, you catch him, he breaks and runs away, etc)

 

[VenomX-90]

Feels like Aggressor.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Feels like Aggressor.

Explain

 

[VenomX-90]

Explain

First off in MKT there was no meter obviously, but when you did combos that was like a meter to build up into it which was Aggressor. The specials you did were ex moves during the time aggressor was active for that short period, Examples Johnny's shadow kick turned red, Nightwolf Rhino Charge was also red and his Tomahawk. You ran fast and the frames were fast as well. Second, there was no recovery time but it did fill up again when you kicking your opponents ass. Like I said, it feels like aggressor but not entirely.

 

[Eddy Wang]

First off in MKT there was no meter obviously, but when you did combos that was like a meter to build up into it which was Aggressor. The specials you did were ex moves during the time aggressor was active for that short period, Examples Johnny's shadow kick turned red, Nightwolf Rhino Charge was also red and his Tomahawk. You ran fast and the frames were fast as well. Second, there was no recovery time but it did fill up again when you kicking your opponents ass. Like I said, it feels like aggressor but not entirely.

the Agressor meter only increased damage output, speed feels mostly the same.
I can still do Johnny's Red Shadow kick and Nightwolf Red Shadow Shoulder without the agressor, the input for both is b,b,f + HK, covers more distance, but the damage is the same.

now the endurance meter would deplet 100% once you started a combo string or juggle, since MK9 and MKX have juggle restrition, its basically impossible to perform juggle infinites since character will become very heavy after the sixth air hit. :9

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Do you guys know if the endurance recovers while you're being combo'd? I didn't notice.

Like, if I backdash I use 50% endurance. They read my backdash and chase it and get a combo punish on me. I have 2 meters but can't use breaker because I don't have 100% endurance. Will I still be able to break the combo after 2 seconds of being combo'd? Or does my endurance only start refilling after the combo is done and I'm back to neutral again?

If endurance doesn't refill until the combo is over, then this potentially means you could do a reset and they still wouldn't be able to break the next combo because their endurance hasn't refilled completely yet. That would be a little silly imo. So I think they'll make it so endurance refills during combos which means DPS will be huge. Short damaging combos could be better than long combos if you're trying to kill. And long corner carry combos could be used to force breakers etc.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Honestly at this point it's pure speculation stuff but since breaker costs both meters I would like it to fill asap. On the other hand, since we can use stage elements to escape pressure I don't think that is good idea....

 

[Jimmypotato]

With just under a year of development still to go, I expect this to change alot.

Interactables also use that meter as well. It will be a very delicate balance to get this all right.

Once we have a playable demo, thats when I'll look into stuff like this, especially once we can see some of the other stages and just how many interactions there are in each stage.

 

[kabelfritz]

It has been a while since i wanted to make this thread, so this is how the Endurace meter scales, and what are the features connected to it.

The Endurace meter is divided in two stages 50% is half of it, and the other 50% is the reserve, most of its uses drains 50% of the bar, except for running who is the feature with least scaling and breaker the one with more scaling.

Full (unused): 100%
Interactable attacks: - 50%
Propelling (Corner jump, interactable jump): -50%
Backdash: -50%
Run: progressively decreasing as long as the character is running
Snow Forest's fullscreen propelling: -100% (its optional, you can do half if you want to, by: Ed Boon)
Breaker: - 100% and - 2 levels of ex Meter.

Recovery time: 2 seconds after each use (or possibly after full use?).

I remember Minh Chang was saying he prefered the recovery time to be 3 or 4 seconds, so ppl wouldn't just break if they commit a mistake, but is it really necessary? Do you think its fine as it is? Do you think 2 seconds is too short? Or do you think is fair enough?

How do you guys feel about 2 recovery times? I mean, if you use your meter before 50% it could take 2 seconds to start refilling again, but if you use exactly 50% or 100% of it would take 3 or 4 seconds to start refilling!?

Food for though, Discuss.

question is: how fast do you want a breaker to be available in a combo or how strong should the punishment (having no breaker) for using up stamina be? should someone with 2 bars of normal meter always be able to break, just a bit later without stamina at combo start, or maybe not at all, like when a combo has already done the main part of its damage after 3-4 seconds? and what would be the reasoning behind it?

 

[Immortal Reaver]

2 seconds seems OK, in order to break not the game fast pace .... since MKX seems to be the fastest version of MK ever made , so ....

in a game with this gameplay rhythm proposal , 1 second is something to consider, because some important gameplay actions / reactions take less than a second's fraction, so ....

MKX is the fastest? What kind of drugs are you on, sir? haha

 

[Eddy Wang]

MKX is the fastest? What kind of drugs are you on, sir? haha

The walkspeed is much faster than mk9

 

[Eddy Wang]

question is: how fast do you want a breaker to be available in a combo or how strong should the punishment (having no breaker) for using up stamina be? should someone with 2 bars of normal meter always be able to break, just a bit later without stamina at combo start, or maybe not at all, like when a combo has already done the main part of its damage after 3-4 seconds? and what would be the reasoning behind it?

There are still characters that can perform high damaging combos without running, like scorpion, assuming skarlet will be in the game, and since she was possibly the one of the few that could do her combos nearly without dashing at all, there is a high possibility of some characters that may be integrated in this same combo archtype as well.

Also in mk exist characters that have special moves that can be used to cover more ground than dash couldnt do, like jax dash punch, kabal nomad dash, etc, this might still be a factor in MKX as well

 

[Rathalos]

Since it was asked, you do recover endurance well being comboed.

 

[kabelfritz]

There are still characters that can perform high damaging combos without running, like scorpion, assuming skarlet will be in the game, and since she was possibly the one of the few that could do her combos nearly without dashing at all, there is a high possibility of some characters that may be integrated in this same combo archtype as well.

Also in mk exist characters that have special moves that can be used to cover more ground than dash couldnt do, like jax dash punch, kabal nomad dash, etc, this might still be a factor in MKX as well

how did you make the jump to running? i was talking about defensive stamina meter use for breakers. no offense, i just dont get it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

how did you make the jump to running? i was talking defensive stamina meter use for breakers. no offense, i just dont get it.

Exactly, how will characters deplet meter if some of them might only use it to pressure, while some will have to use to extend their jugules?

This will possibly affect the game defensively as well

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Exactly, how will characters deplet meter if some of them might only use it to pressure, while some will have to use to extend their jugules?

This will possibly affect the game defensively as well

That's not really what he was asking though. He's basically asking the same questions I did. Should people be allowed to break after 1-2 seconds of being combo'd? Can characters really do significant damage in 1-2 seconds? I don't know how long the average BnB combo will be in MKX but if most of them are 4 seconds long 38%.. That means you'll only be able to punish someone for 15-19% before they recover 100% endurance and they're able to break the combo. Is that fair? Maybe.

But I guess they're still trying to determine what the most appropriate cooldown is.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

The walkspeed is much faster than mk9

Well yeah, the whole game is faster than MK9. but definitely not the fastest MK game. still seems like a really good pace though. MK9 wasn't horribly slow, but a little faster is definitely better.