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Why are Grundy, Shazam and Scorp low tier?

BRUTALITY

Banned
grundy is not low imo

shazam and scorpion, cant really comment, probably lower than most others

by the way, i do not think joker is low, i have been shown the light by @Gilbagz and with enough dedication joker can go toe to toe with most of the cast. it takes a lot of work though.
 
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Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
Ive been playing IGAU since the release day and right now Im playing this game on PS4.
I am not a good player nor am I bad. I am decent at this game, usually always try to improve and adapt vs any play style in order to step up my game and I usually can give anyone a good match except 5 characters I always lose to in case the player is good. I usually lose a lot to 5 characters in this game and 3 are the above mentioned = Grundy Shazam and Scorp.
I play as DS and Batman. 1 is a keep away character and the other 1 is a rushdown character.

I feel like these 3 characters are rly strong in the right hands and can almost keep up with most
of the cast. But why every single time I see a new IGAU tier list these 3 characters are always considered to be low - garbage tier?
Did I miss sth?

I can't talk about your batman as I've never played him (i don't think) and i don't know about the other matchups but i can tell you about your deathstroke vs Grundy.

The reason you have trouble with grundy is because your strategy of 'choose fenris, jump back, fire guns until in corner, abuse interactables, fire more guns' is just too predictable. You need to change it up or you'll get just downloaded.

Believe me when i tell you, Grundy has loads of problems - he is definitely mid and possibly low tier compared to the rest of the cast. I think i must have played in the region of 10k games now on different consoles and he just has so many issues compared with the 'high tiers'. If you don't believe me, trying playing as him yourself.

Deathstroke:Grundy is a 6:4 at worst.

Look forward to seeing you online.
 

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
For all intents and purposes scorpion isn't even in this game. Maybe online in lag he can do something but offline, and even in solid online connections he is free to defense. Slow overheads, crappy low, less safe than unprotected sex with a ten dollar hooker, needs meter but builds it slower than old people fuck and hits like a wet sock. He's pure shitter.
 

LiangHuBBB

Warrior
I can't talk about your batman as I've never played him (i don't think) and i don't know about the other matchups but i can tell you about your deathstroke vs Grundy.

The reason you have trouble with grundy is because your strategy of 'choose fenris, jump back, fire guns until in corner, abuse interactables, fire more guns' is just too predictable. You need to change it up or you'll get just downloaded.

Believe me when i tell you, Grundy has loads of problems - he is definitely mid and possibly low tier compared to the rest of the cast. I think i must have played in the region of 10k games now on different consoles and he just has so many issues compared with the 'high tiers'. If you don't believe me, trying playing as him yourself.

Deathstroke:Grundy is a 6:4 at worst.

Look forward to seeing you online.
I havent seen a single tournament yet where a DS player has actually beaten a Grundy player ( even foreverking BM seems to struggle vs good grundy players alot ), so telling me its a 6/4 match up in DSs favor in this patch is kinda ye...
I rarely lose online, actually only a few ppl beat my DS so far and you are one of them. I have beaten you quite several times too and several times it was rly close but then I ended up losing because of unnecessary stupid mistakes I have made, but you have beaten me more. Its not like you downloaded me everytime.
My lack of match up knowledge leads to me losing vs good Grundy players which is why I asked you friendly for some sparring matches because I wanted to understand this match up and all you said was " lol playing vs jump back running away gun shots all the time no thx " or sth like this. So all I can play is ranked matches to face you.
Other good players like DroneUK spar with me anytime in a MU where I struggle so we can both learn from each other, but you didnt. DS is meant to be played keep away and if you say sth like this ye...

But whatsoever your Grundy is strong rly strong actually, but do not underestimate my DS. I can adapt vs almost anyone, if ppl give me the chance to spar with them instead of just waiting 2+ minutes until another ranked game, winning 80 ranked matches till I finally face a decent player.

I still know you from SF4 forums and even played ya in SSF4, its been a while ya know.
 

Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
Don't take it the wrong way mate. It's not a personal thing. You're a good player, better than a lot of people on there. Thats not really the point i was making.

Firstly in the states, there is like a couple of noteable mainstream grundy players and most of them counter pick the MU. Tyrant for example uses superman as a backup so it's not likely you'll see many meaningful ds vs grundy matches anyway. With me, the fact is, i don't counter pick -ever, its a personal choice, so whom ever you choose, even if it's a bad mu for me, i will pick grundy - if i were to counter pick one person it would be for DS and superman... my 6:4 is entirely based on what i have experienced... and in my opinion, thats a conservative estimate.

The reason your strategy DS player normally beats grundy is because of the patience, factor. Sometimes i can be bothered to sit there, read and watch you fireguns at me all day, sometimes i can't. When i get impatient i lose, i'm human. I'm not saying i downloaded you, i'm saying, as a bit of advice, you should mix up your strategies, because they're predictable so eventually, someone will download you. Mustard or Ketchup (apologies i don't remember which one) play a good DS. On ps3, look up igor13mefestofel, he has a full blown rush down strategy and last time i looked, he is top of the ps3 leaderboards. HE is a nightmare to deal with. - DS isn't just a zoner character.

I think it's important for you to understand why i declined playing you. Sparring with a 'zoner deathstroke/superman, is sort of like playing a 80's game of donkey kong, you know the portable ones where you have to jump over the barrels till you get to the boss? What you don't understand is, that kind of match, as much fun as it is for you, isn't really fun for a grundy player. I'll play you in ranked and in tournament, that's fine, but if i have to choose to play people, I'm going to play someone who makes my game time enjoyable. Selfish i'm sure but thats the truth of it. I get this sort of trouble from a lot of people... they don't really understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of a zoner.... if you've ever played a grappler against someone who relies heavily on zoning, you will appreciate how unbelievably tedious it is to sit there and block or jump fireballs till you're in a corner, only to have them escape out of it. Believe me when i tell you, it's not fun. It's not a personal thing, its just the way it is. Just think to yourself... in those 10k+ games i've played, imagine how many fireballs/guns/lasers i've had to jump/dodge/block... sometimes i'll play up to 10-20 games in a row on ranked and they're all 'zoners'.... regardless of character..

Tell you what, next time you're on, why don't we play DS vs Grundy FT10 and i'll be DS? ;]
 

LiangHuBBB

Warrior
Ye, cool. Im ok with that.
On the side note I have played igor13mefestofel quite often on PS3.
That's the only DS player I have faced who actually played rly smart and with setups combos & stuff.
But I have only lost once from 15 games or so vs igor13mefestofel IIRC back then on PS3, but now I am on PS4.
Tbh leaderboards don't mean much to me. I have beaten the current no1 Manhunter 10-3 , no1 Superman 10-1 and no1 Batman 10-2 on PS3 ( all top 10 ranked on the leaderboards with a 90%+ win ratio) in FT10 sets. All those ppl were good and have beaten me in ranked, so I asked for those FT10 sets to see how these players can do in a long run vs me.
There are 2 players who are rly good on PS3 from what I remember and thats Ryumajisen and ChouG.
 

Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
Well, with those stats, that would basically mean you're the best player on psn europe by deductive reasoning?

You should go to EVO and make some money :)
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Shazam definitely has stuff, but still has holes in his offense and limited options in a lot of MUs.

Grundy has stuff but he gets fucked up by a lot of the cast, especially the top tiers and zoners (I feel soooooo lame when I play the Zod-Grundy MU).

Scorpion is just broken (not in a good way). That character doesn't work anymore, and he has to work really hard to take wins.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Honestly, I think joker is not even low tier, I just think he is low-mid tier and he is only there for the reason he takes A LOT MORE work than any other character; the same goes for Shazzam. However, Grundy and Scorpion as low tier is definitely understandable.
No this is not cause I am a superman player (ok maybe a little).
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Heh, you got 3-0 by a gimmick character.


Lelel
I saw Arma's post and it made me sad.


Regarding the "low tierness" mentioned earlier:
I don't know if I would use the term gimmicky, but if you play any good Shazam or Grundy, your chance of winning goes up dramatically the longer you play with them. Once you learn their setups and "gimmicks"--the MU becomes significantly easier. If I'm not mistaken, Tyrant has been getting beat more at WNF than he used to simply because ppl are adapting to his mixups. Shazam is the same way--once he runs through his 4-5 mixups and you realize that he's guessing as much as you are, it becomes a lot easier.

That's why characters that have SAFE(er) 50-50's (GL, Batgirl, WW, Zod, etc) are better choices and more common. In the long run, they're simply punished much less for guessing wrong.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Shazam isn't terrible IMO

Grundy is one of the bigger MB B3 magnets in the game.

Scorpion though is just terrible design...needs meter so bad, but he can't build meter safely at all. Spear needs to be meter burned in order to go into his vortex (why?)
Just need to make Takedown safe, Spear not use meter to restand and maybe less cooldown on his trait.
 

Jeffreys

Grundy think you handsome!
RIP DarthArma :p

Buried on a Saturday

<3
Tyrant is great but I felt like Arma didn't know the Grundy matchup at the highest level because he doesn't play tyrant often like slayer and Theo does. Some things I saw arma get hit with could be over come by match up experience.

Getting grabbed by raw swamp hands continually jumping into Grundy when Grundy has a plethora of anti air tools. And getting hit by reactable 50/50s is evidence of lack of matchup knowledge. I don't even think tyrant resorted to tick throws in his match against arma.

Not saying either player would beat the other, but I do think the matches would have been down to the wire because I think this matchup may be 5-5
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
Why does everybody forget Cyborg, even when talking about the worst in the game?

#ForgottenHero
#NeverForget
#Prayers
In my heart of hearts I can't consider Cy worst just because he actually bodies a few characters. I feel like if you win a matchup 7-3 you're not capable of being worst
 

Vagrant

Champion
but the issue was Scorp mains (PL) didn't admit he was broken to begin with (-1 flip kick lol)-
Everyone admitted that was broken and it was removed like day 2. I remember slips and I laughing about it. That wasn't part of the nerf that destroyed him.