The Amazing Spiderman 2 Spoiler talk

[Compbros]

My point is, even if she hits the ground, the audible snap still happens. The floor didn't make any part of her snap, and the interview excerpt seems to indicate the floor was added for all those people who don't believe the snap, not to replace the snap. Its not like her neck snapped and she was okay then her head hits the floor. She simply couldn't have survived, there was nothing Peter could do to save her, which is the same lesson as the comic.



I think you're giving 70s era comic writing too much credit. Goblin told Peter to pick heroism or her. He picked both and he can't have both so he loses both. That's the lesson. Even if Stan Lee didn't write a "perfect" Kobayashi Maru scenario, it's clear from Goblin's dialogue on the very next page that she was supposed to be dead either way.



30 years of writing later it makes sense that someone else could write in some caveats, make some references and even give Peter some learning experiences from it. It's no different when guys 10 years later go back and say, oh well that happened because it was a clone. Simple fact is there's nothing in the original story that illustrates negligence on Peter's part. Well, not in his technique, anyway. Even after the Goblin gets fucking gutted and he realizes how hollow vengeance is, Peter doesn't express remorse about not having trained for this situation or whatever. There's no epilogue about Peter practicing newer safer web catches, nor improving his speed swing to beat Goblin up to her, or even his left hook to knock Goblin out in one punch. Peter's next move was to come to term with the fact that he can't have it all.

My point is that even with the snap the cause of death changes, also I'll need to listen back to if it's a snap or the thud her hitting the ground.

Potentially but that's the way I've always interpreted the impact of that death, that it was Peter's fault through carelessness and so it was so much worse for him than an inability to save her. Perhaps that's not the intent, that could certainly be argued, but I didn't enjoy how ambiguous they made it in the movie. Maybe on a second viewing I'll like it but for now it feels off to me.

I agree with this but I also have to say that such scenes of purposeful training don't need to be seen. Yes, people can always fill in gaps in later years or what have you but it's shown that he believes that the way he tried to save Gwen was what caused her death and he rectifies it when similar events happen. Him standing on a building practicing web techniques or reading books about momentum/whiplash don't need to be shown. The only thing that signifies negligence is the "Spider-man killed her" that Peter speaks after handing her to the cops.

 

[Briggs8417]

My point is that even with the snap the cause of death changes, also I'll need to listen back to if it's a snap or the thud her hitting the ground.

Potentially but that's the way I've always interpreted the impact of that death, that it was Peter's fault through carelessness and so it was so much worse for him than an inability to save her. Perhaps that's not the intent, that could certainly be argued, but I didn't enjoy how ambiguous they made it in the movie. Maybe on a second viewing I'll like it but for now it feels off to me.

I agree with this but I also have to say that such scenes of purposeful training don't need to be seen. Yes, people can always fill in gaps in later years or what have you but it's shown that he believes that the way he tried to save Gwen was what caused her death and he rectifies it when similar events happen. Him standing on a building practicing web techniques or reading books about momentum/whiplash don't need to be shown. The only thing that signifies negligence is the "Spider-man killed her" that Peter speaks after handing her to the cops.

I think the argument you are making is sort of just one perspective of how this could be looked at tbh. I could see what you mean by all of this, but I personally think Peter views any death that happens in the Spider-Man books this way tbh, but more so Gwen and uncle Ben because he loved them and they made an even bigger impact. The way Peter sees it is that he is Spider-Man, and if he can't save everyone then he has failed. When someone dies it hits him hard, and he always carries the guilt of not being able to save them with him. Hell mayor Jameson's wife dies and he was holding that one close to the chest all the way to his grave. He has a hard time not blaming himself when anyone dies just because he has too much confidence in his own ability and feels too much obligation to believe that he can't save everyone. People who know his secret constantly have to remind him that he can't save everyone and that when someone can't be saved, it doesn't mean it's his fault.

 

[trufenix]

My point is that even with the snap the cause of death changes, also I'll need to listen back to if it's a snap or the thud her hitting the ground.

Well, I saw it last night and the snap is way more prevalent than any thud. The only ambiguity is as that interview states, historically in film (and even in that very movie) he has never "harmed" anyone in rescue, so the mind might ask well why did web kill her when it didn't kill those bad guys he chucked out of a truck, or the kids and ladies he scooped up mid swing or any of the peoples arms he yanked away from the railing, or even Max who never once mentions the arm drag takedown he used to rescue him as a catalyst for all the hate.

I agree with this but I also have to say that such scenes of purposeful training don't need to be seen. Yes, people can always fill in gaps in later years or what have you but it's shown that he believes that the way he tried to save Gwen was what caused her death and he rectifies it when similar events happen. Him standing on a building practicing web techniques or reading books about momentum/whiplash don't need to be shown. The only thing that signifies negligence is the "Spider-man killed her" that Peter speaks after handing her to the cops.

I feel like they do have to be shown. That's how you show it matters to Peter. If they'd spent any of that five minute mourning montage showing him working on his technique, or even just looking disappointed at his shooters or anything we would know how he felt. But that panel you just put up where he does the same bit w/ MJ makes a deliberate call back to illustrate the point and that's the only way you know. Which is why its significant that both Stan Lee and the movie omit it. Without showing it nobody would ever see Spidey learning from Stacy's fall, they'd just see that "somehow" Peter pulling a DBZ-esque "I want this more" moment.

If the ultimate goal was to show that he was simply ineffective Spiderman, why even bother having the tension of "maybe he'll save her" leading up to it when they could have just as easily had him obviously fail the task, like they do with Batman all the time.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Movie was pretty hysterically bad. I do like Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone and when the story was focused on them it was actually really good...but everything dealing with the plethora of villains in this movie was just so absurdly stupid I laughed out loud at several instances. I thought Spider-man 3 was pretty lazy in how it approached the origins of Symbiot and Sandman but hooooly crap, the way they shoe horned Green Goblin in at the end was almost worse.
I think the part that made me laugh the most was when Electro showed up randomely wearing his superhero outfit complete with the Shazam motiff. Like seriously...where the hell did he get that?!?

To be honest this really feels like two movies, one of which was made by an artist who wanted to do justice to the Spider-man legacy, and another which is a by the number product created by committee. So....basically Spider-man 3 all over again.

 

[CitizenSnips]

The "plethora of villains" complaint is kind of wrong imo. Rhino is in the movie for like what, 10 minutes? He shouldn't even be considered as part of the villain cast. Electro was the villain for the majority of the movie, but they did a bad job making him seem like a real threat. I agree that Green Goblin was thrown in way too late and that did seem rushed but I guess they needed him to kill Gwen. Spider-Man 3 on the other hand had all 3 villains play major roles during the whole movie, Amazing Spider-Man 2 didn't fail in that way but instead failed to make Electro a bigger villain.

And Electro got his outfit from Harry. I thought that was supposed to be rpetty obvious and I'm actually pretty sure he asked for one.

The movie was good, but it is nowhere near Spider-Man 1 or 2. The pacing of the movie was bad. There was too much on Peter and Gwen. We get it, they act very well together but it was too much imo. We already got the chemistry from ASM1 we didn't need 100383 more scenes to show us. The music also was not good at all. Seemed like it was music for Captain America, not Spider-Man.

I thought the CGI was great. The Electro fights were awesome and the most aesthetically pleasing out of all Spidey films. The problem was there were only like 2 fight scenes since they instead wanted to show us more of Peter and Gwen being in love.

Rhino mech-suit looked terrible. I'm ok with him being a mech-suit since the actual Rhino suit would probably look ridiculous, but the mech looked lame when standing.

The Gwen death scene was good. Maybe a bit rushed since Green Goblin JUST appeared, but it was done well. The web hand thing was kind of lame though.

Idk why both Spidey films are insisting on making Harry the more prominent villain than Norman. In ASM I feel like they could have made Norman kill both Gwen and Harry and he'd make a way better leader for the Sinister Six (I doubt they;ll make Otto the leader).

 

[VenomX-90]

Idk but I just want Venom and Carnage already.

 

[VenomX-90]

Forreal though I know in this story Peter Parker was in an emotional state during the who movie but half the movie he had tears in his eyes, and I was like "Really?" I mean Batman and Super both lost their parents but they don't excessively cry about it, they just deal with it and move on.