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Match-up Discussion Zyphox's Controversial Flash MU Chart

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
savage blast is overrated in this MU, i play 7L all the damn time, you can beat consecutive savage blast with MB LC as long as the first one whiffed, and arrow can't load trait by shooting and arrow then loading, reversal LC beats that too.
I've been having success with baiting the lightning charge after a blocked arrow and etc. From what I've gathered Flash has to respect the neutral jump option after a blocked arrow or a whiffed savage blast. I can neutral jump 3 and deal 42% if I have 2 bars. It seems to give GA some walking room in the neutral game when trying to keep Flash out.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I've been having success with baiting the lightning charge after a blocked arrow and etc. From what I've gathered Flash has to respect the neutral jump option after a blocked arrow or a whiffed savage blast. I can neutral jump 3 and deal 42% if I have 2 bars. It seems to give GA some walking room in the neutral game when trying to keep Flash out.
yeah thats possible but then that gives me an avenue to dash in and get in range. when we are both close, i out damage you so much i can afford to get hit 3 - 4 times, before you get hit once. when you do get hit then you have to deal with the corner, if i guess right, or you guess wrong thats the rest of your life or force clash. GA can't keep out flash forever, and when i do get i could take as many risks as i want while you can afford any at all, and thats what makes flash such a deadly character and this MU slightly in flash favor IMO.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
yeah thats possible but then that gives me an avenue to dash in and get in range. when we are both close, i out damage you so much i can afford to get hit 3 - 4 times, before you get hit once. when you do get hit then you have to deal with the corner, if i guess right, or you guess wrong thats the rest of your life or force clash. GA can't keep out flash forever, and when i do get i could take as many risks as i want while you can afford any at all, and thats what makes flash such a deadly character and this MU slightly in flash favor IMO.
I can agree with this. Those 50/50's up close are insane. I do tend to save my meter for push block and MB slide though which helps against him closing the distance. Also if I do gain momentum I can pressure enough to maybe land some good damage and then get out again.

In the end though you're most likely right about the risk reward.

Also just to note if you dash in I think I have a good shot at landing or at least chipping with savage blast on reaction. Then you also have the option of and instant lightning charge after the dash which will probably trade with or hit me out of SB. I'm not sure about this, do you know?
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I can agree with this. Those 50/50's up close are insane. I do tend to save my meter for push block and MB slide though which helps against him closing the distance. Also if I do gain momentum I can pressure enough to maybe land some good damage and then get out again.

In the end though you're most likely right about the risk reward.

Also just to note if you dash in I think I have a good shot at landing or at least chipping with savage blast on reaction. Then you also have the option of and instant lightning charge after the dash which will probably trade with or hit me out of SB. I'm not sure about this, do you know?
if i dash and you try savage blast i can jump in right over it or SP MB, if i hit either of those your losing a big chunk of life, if you read or try reacting to my dash just d1 special, just be wary that if i catch you with my d1 its 55% with trait into the corner, same if you try to dash up d1 after i block an arrow which a lot of GA likes to do, flash punishes dashes for the most damage in this game.
 

kaseyk

Noob
hg can punish all of flashes wakeups or specials in general, she can wing evade punish his frame traps . flying 2 trades with flying uppercut and heavenly stomp beats it .
flash has no easy time escaping the corner against hg and she can reverse position much easier . at mid to long range she is always at advantage and upclose they are even .
corner damage is even when flash has trait , but hg's is always above 50% .
going off of character abilities and not individual players skills it's clear 6-4 hg but what harold said in his example is exactly how i feel about my supposedly bad mu's .
because you have to play a very different way to make it even doesn't make it bad as long as you know how to do that it is a 5-5 .
all that long rant lol but this should be labeled as 6-4 hg but keep it controversial :p
 

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
hg can punish all of flashes wakeups or specials in general, she can wing evade punish his frame traps . flying 2 trades with flying uppercut and heavenly stomp beats it .
flash has no easy time escaping the corner against hg and she can reverse position much easier . at mid to long range she is always at advantage and upclose they are even .
corner damage is even when flash has trait , but hg's is always above 50% .
going off of character abilities and not individual players skills it's clear 6-4 hg but what harold said in his example is exactly how i feel about my supposedly bad mu's .
because you have to play a very different way to make it even doesn't make it bad as long as you know how to do that it is a 5-5 .
all that long rant lol but this should be labeled as 6-4 hg but keep it controversial :p
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
hg can punish all of flashes wakeups or specials in general, she can wing evade punish his frame traps . flying 2 trades with flying uppercut and heavenly stomp beats it .
flash has no easy time escaping the corner against hg and she can reverse position much easier . at mid to long range she is always at advantage and upclose they are even .
corner damage is even when flash has trait , but hg's is always above 50% .
going off of character abilities and not individual players skills it's clear 6-4 hg but what harold said in his example is exactly how i feel about my supposedly bad mu's .
because you have to play a very different way to make it even doesn't make it bad as long as you know how to do that it is a 5-5 .
all that long rant lol but this should be labeled as 6-4 hg but keep it controversial :p
No. also confusing here is are you a flash down player or HG up player in terms of this MU. are you a flash player or hg player i can't tell, here is all you need to know, now matter how many times HG hits you unless your in the corner it will never be as much as when flash hits you, HG fucks up once and into the corner with 60% less health, i could care less about what HG can do, i can take risks all day, HG has to take risks to hit me, and she fucks up once your eating huge damage. one read on mace charge WE 3 or 2 one blocked air mace charge, one whiffed anything and she getting hit for huge damage and i don't see why HG players don't see this. stop play flash's that hit you for 30% and say its 6 - 4 HG, play a good flash that will punish you and make you salty as fuck for being predictable or risky then come back to me and say its 6 - 4 HG.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I didn't know Green Arrow could keep shooting normal standing arrows against Flash. As long as I follow up with arrows instantly one after another he can't MB charge through them. I was trying this in training as flash and couldn't block one arrow and then MB charge the next one. I couldn't crouch the arrow and then MB charge either. I know he has other options but I always feared the MB charge after firing an arrow at mid range which was making play different. If I am forced to use delayed shots and etc. due to Flash jumping over arrows then I will be open to MB charge.

Lol I just want to fucking play instead of thinking about this shit... I wish the online wasn't fucking ass so I can play the real game during the week.
 

kaseyk

Noob
No. also confusing here is are you a flash down player or HG up player in terms of this MU. are you a flash player or hg player i can't tell, here is all you need to know, now matter how many times HG hits you unless your in the corner it will never be as much as when flash hits you, HG fucks up once and into the corner with 60% less health, i could care less about what HG can do, i can take risks all day, HG has to take risks to hit me, and she fucks up once your eating huge damage. one read on mace charge WE 3 or 2 one blocked air mace charge, one whiffed anything and she getting hit for huge damage and i don't see why HG players don't see this. stop play flash's that hit you for 30% and say its 6 - 4 HG, play a good flash that will punish you and make you salty as fuck for being predictable or risky then come back to me and say its 6 - 4 HG.
No. also confusing here is are you a flash down player or HG up player in terms of this MU. are you a flash player or hg player i can't tell, here is all you need to know, now matter how many times HG hits you unless your in the corner it will never be as much as when flash hits you, HG fucks up once and into the corner with 60% less health, i could care less about what HG can do, i can take risks all day, HG has to take risks to hit me, and she fucks up once your eating huge damage. one read on mace charge WE 3 or 2 one blocked air mace charge, one whiffed anything and she getting hit for huge damage and i don't see why HG players don't see this. stop play flash's that hit you for 30% and say its 6 - 4 HG, play a good flash that will punish you and make you salty as fuck for being predictable or risky then come back to me and say its 6 - 4 HG.
no need to get so defensive lol . i'm a hg player . i agree flash is a great character but he can't punish mace charge mb or mace toss mb on block .

I feel like you aren't playing great hawkgirl players . She has 50% midscreen combos aswell and flash can't eliminate interactables so she always has those to pad her damage . 6-4 hg
 

Rodrigue

Spongerod
That's a bit high even for mmh aha, he has a few 5-5s like bane, lex and probably 1 or 2 others
You're that Lex main on PSN EU right? God I hate your Lex so much hahaha I'm spondylarthrosis on psn, CW main and been playing Flash and Batgirl as well. Let's put this 5-5 theory to test then and play a few games soon, shall we?
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Yes I'm
You're that Lex main on PSN EU right? God I hate your Lex so much hahaha I'm spondylarthrosis on psn, CW main and been playing Flash and Batgirl as well. Let's put this 5-5 theory to test then and play a few games soon, shall we?
that lex from Europe lol:p I can 1v1 you if you're in America on oNe87_Dread or if you're eu on DreadKnight1