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Match-up Discussion Zyphox's Controversial Flash MU Chart

AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
Honestly... all that really doesn't matter

its the fact that every single one of Flashes wakeups aren't stuffed by our WC/C setups, but rather you go THROUGH Grundy. He cannot Oki this character, and that is a huge huge problem, considering a good portion of the game revolves around "who can get up and who can't" for Grundy.

Grundy doesn't care about your LC stuff... because we are going to be WCC our way in at the distance where you would typically "yolo" it out there anyhow.
SP actually isn't very good, because it typically just goes over Grundy and whiffs when you don't expect it to, or you just get d2'd out of it on a read (guess). At least I LOOKED for the SP because I can't do anything about the post LK anyway.

My opinion anyhow from when I played SEV. Flash still wins because he can keep himself safe from the armor and doesn't have to fear the Oki off any type of KD.
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he does have to fear oki from Grundy. If Grundy blocks any of Flashes Attacks how much damage can Grundy take? If flash respects that, all he can do is back dash on get up.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I think the Zatanna MU is even. She wins full screen and Flash wins up-close. Zatanna struggles a lot against good rushdown. But she can keep him away pretty good, fireball is an amazing tool UNTIL the flash player starts punishing it, Flash can punish it on reaction with trait~RM

And WW mu i agree, it's 5-5 both have the same tools, but Flash needs meter (not a problem at all for Flash)
 
WITNESS

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
xKhaoTik said:
Agreed with the Flash MU as for right now. I could be in his favor tho. I haven't lost to a flash player since I got the MU down so I have no choice but to play the best.

See you at ECT @Zyphox


Edit: does Zatanna really beat flash?
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No flash players don't have enough experience with that MU
 
Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
xKhaoTik said:
Agreed with the Flash MU as for right now. I could be in his favor tho. I haven't lost to a flash player since I got the MU down so I have no choice but to play the best.

See you at ECT @Zyphox


Edit: does Zatanna really beat flash?
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i honestly think she does, she zones him well, her htibox makes it hard to convert off MB LC, she can get up for free with MB tele, and her trait actually works against him, fireball on screen then chip, plus her jump is really low so no punishing jump backs.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
he does have to fear oki from Grundy. If Grundy blocks any of Flashes Attacks how much damage can Grundy take? If flash respects that, all he can do is back dash on get up.
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ehhh... he still really doesn't have to respect Grundy's oki. Not like other characters have to at least. If Grundy pushes buttons on Flash's wakeup... Flash can just do a wakupe attack. If you don't... he can backdash or even LK as a wakeup and fear nothing.
He just has to watch if you're actually moving while he's on his back.
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
i agree with scorp losing 4-6, be worse if flash could get more off a punish off a blocked mb telepunch but thankfully all he gets is his flying headbut uppercut
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
FOREVER KING said:
Flashes loses to Zod? Most Zod players say Zod loses to Flash lol. I think it's 5-5

But I agree on Batman matchup
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Zod is the only character in the game that for some BS reason makes Flash's B22 whiff which lets him get a full combo punish. That in itself is enough to say this MU isn't in Flash's favor.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
HoneyBee said:
Zod is the only character in the game that for some BS reason makes Flash's B22 whiff which lets him get a full combo punish. That in itself is enough to say this MU isn't in Flash's favor.
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B22 whiffs on quite a few chars, Joker being one of them.
 
Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Captain Oxygen said:
I think Flash v Lobo is even, they both have to take risks and get punished heavily by each other.
A lot of the time this matchup is full on footsies, getting at least 6%Chip from trait is pretty nice.
I dunno, nothing about this matchup really convinces me its in either's favor tbh.
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I concur!
 
YOMI Trepound380

YOMI Trepound380

Tranquil Anarchy
Zyphox said:
dude i can snipe you out of the air with flying uppercut for 50% damage, can punish divekick full combo and flash dgaf about HG's d1, if i catch ONE of your WE shenanigans your eating huge damage. i agree she can be annoying but flash just has to be patient, that buffed hitbox on uppercut made this MU even IMO. and you can zone so you have to come to me.
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i have to show you soon. and how the WE stuff works now its a constant guess whether i do it or not. the meta has changed in the mu but its still hard to catch her consistently.
 
MrSoloLobo

MrSoloLobo

I have a keen eye for all things broken.
@Zyphox I agree with the Sinestro and Raven numbers but I feel like he might have a slight advantage over Batgirl. Is there something specific in the MU that makes you think it's 5-5?
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Qwark28 said:
Cyrax's D4 had the exact same reach and gave a mixup only hit. B2 from Flash gives a mixup on block and a 60% combo into another mixup. That is a better footsie move by far.
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Apples to oranges. Cyrax had an easier time getting the D4 in reach because of the way movement works in MK. Dashes have recovery in this game.
 
SEV

SEV

Apprentice
My changes would be:
DD 5-5
HG 4-6
WoWo 4-6
Lobo 5-5
GA 5-5
All the 7-3s I'd put as 6-4s
Not sure to put Ares as even or 6-4.

Qwark28 said:
B22 whiffs on quite a few chars, Joker being one of them.
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It whiffs on Zod 100% of the time. It whiffs on other characters too, but only if B2 wasn't meaty enough.
 
Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
SEV said:
My changes would be:
DD 5-5
HG 4-6
WoWo 4-6
Lobo 5-5
GA 5-5
All the 7-3s I'd put as 6-4s
Not sure to put Ares as even or 6-4.


It whiffs on Zod 100% of the time. It whiffs on other characters too, but only if B2 wasn't meaty enough.
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there is no reason WW beats flash, and flash beats GA, give me a reason flash doesn't decimate cyborg or grundy? 6 - 4 means slight advantage, 7 - 3 means advantageous MU, a 6 - 4 would be flash vs raven, where raven can't zone unless in trait, but still gets by with short jump, decent footsies, and decent damage. flash vs cyborg is, cyborg can only do a ground fireball and flash can check him after ever block fireball with LC, which cyborg can't punish on block anyway. i was thinking about listing that 8 - 2 since cyborg's wake ups are punishable on block and have no upclose game. i don't understand, maybe your flash vs these characters are YOUR numbers, but in general flash gives DD problems as well as GA.
 
Jim

Jim

Emperor of the Moon
I think Bane is 5-5 at best for Flash could even be 6-4 Bane. He can stop Bane from charging with speed dodge yeah but he also has a huge problem waking up against Bane. If Bane times his moves right he will almost always stuff MB LC on wake up, you can try to charge LK in case of throw but all other options beat it. Getting out of the corner against Bane is a nightmare. MB Speed dodge can work but just like LK it is a total guess and if you are in a transition corner and he has meter+venom you can eat 60+% for a wrong guess.

Hawkgirl I think is 4-6 in her favor. Flash has no way to condition her to do anything. Flying uppercut can reach her but can also whiff pretty easy and get punished. Getting in is a patience game that involved eating chip from her until you are within jump in range and she mace charges across the screen away from you again.
 
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