A reflection. . .

[RM Truth]

why was kabal never banned? from the sound of things he was the main problem the game really had

Because then it would've just been Kenshi dominating everything.

 

[16 Bit]

The main thing I've disagreed with concerning Kenshi is the notion that his lesser publicized matchups (Shang, Noob, Sindel, Sektor) were automatic 10-0s. I don't doubt for a second that the ones he's famous for (Cage, Kitana, Sub etc.) are never gonna be better than 7-3 Kenshi's favor, even if we played MK9 full time for the next 5 years. Everything else is writing on the wall people just refuse to concede.

Granted, for the record, I also disagree that "Cyrax only loses to Kabal", "Kabal loses to Kitana", "Cage only loses to Kenshi" etc.

Ranting about "the community" and "people" = red herring downplaying tactic.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Because then it would've just been Kenshi dominating everything.

actually not really, the other top tiers "cyrax, sonya, lao, freddy, and etc." all would be in the mix with kenshi as far as tournaments went. Kabal was the only character who won all matchups, which in reality is rather dumb lol. MK9 without kabal would've been pretty interesting, but I wasn't one of those who said he should be banned, but if we go based off his matchups, he could be considered for it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Pboard believes Ermac beats Lao (which, I can't help but raise an eyebrow at, but I don't play either character), and in the grand scheme of it, it doesn't change the fact that he was more prominent in the tournament than characters that are considered locks for the top 10, which Ermac clearly isn't.

I mean, I'm not sure if you watched the tournament -- but in Top 8 PBoard literally pulled Ermac out for one game, lost the game, and went to Lao for the rest of the Set (and the rest of Top 8). I mean sure, if the tournament is seeded well, you can play whoever you want to in the first few rounds in pools. But when things 'get real', the result is that 90% of the matches in Top 8 were people using the Top 3 or so characters. And most of the rest were using Top 5 characters.

It literally looked like this:
1) EGP FLK PBoard 88 (Kung Lao, Ermac)
2) KIT Forever King (Kung Lao, Cyrax, Kenshi)
3) GGA 16 Bit (Kitana)
4) EGP West Coast Jeff (Kabal)
5) C88 DJT (Cyrax)
5) EGP FLK MF Slayer (Kabal)
7) EGP Krayzie (Cyrax)
7) C88 MIT (Sonya, Cyrax, Kabal)

To me that's a clear a statement as any regarding why a lot of people choose not to play anymore. Doesn't mean it's not a fun game, but the issues are readily apparent.

 

[RM Truth]

actually not really, the other top tiers "cyrax, sonya, lao, freddy, and etc." all would be in the mix with kenshi as far as tournaments went. Kabal was the only character who won all matchups, which in reality is rather dumb lol. MK9 without kabal would've been pretty interesting, but I wasn't one of those who said he should be banned, but if we go based off his matchups, he could be considered for it.

Your probably right, but low and mid-low tiers would have still been irrelevant since they all got 8-2d or 9-1d by Kenshi.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Your probably right, but low and mid-low tiers would have still been irrelevant since they all got 8-2d or 9-1d by Kenshi.

lol true story , the worst characters in IGAU are like the mid characters in mk9 haha. IGAU balance pretty solid.

 

[STRYKIE]

Ranting about "the community" and "people" = red herring downplaying tactic.

"Kabal's saw is safe", "EX SC is a guaranteed frame trap on block" are not smoke-screened blowups at all sir. If you're telling me I'm on blast for debunking that much then perhaps it's all beyond reason.

 

[RM Truth]

lol true story , the worst characters in IGAU are like the mid characters in mk9 haha. IGAU balance pretty solid.

I wasn't around for MK9 at its peak, but the way I see it, Kabal was a problem, but not the only problem with the balance. It seems that if you weren't playing a top 10 character or a character in the top 10 conversation, you didn't have a chance of winning a major. If you banned Kabal, you would not have had more tournament variety, you would have just moved MK from a 10 character game to a 9 character game. In SF4, you have supposed mid and low tiers like E. Ryu, Oni, and Balrog winning tournaments or being just shy of winning tournaments which speaks a lot for its balance, but in MK, you pretty much would have had to ban a third of the roster if you wanted everyone to be viable. My 2 cents.

 

[TotteryManx]

Whats cute is that many players claimed they would continue to play MK9 after IGAU was released. Some did(mostly west coast), but the majority dropped it like a hot potato. I expect people to say they will continue to play Injustice when MK10 is announced, but will drop it as well. Life goes on.

 

[16 Bit]

"Kabal's saw is safe", "EX SC is a guaranteed frame trap on block" are not smoke-screened blowups at all sir. If you're telling me I'm on blast for debunking that much then perhaps it's all beyond reason.

"the community" isn't a hive mind. This is what you talk about non stop it's even in your signature.

BTW didn't you downplay IAGB and call it irrelevant in the current meta?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Whats cute is that many players claimed they would continue to play MK9 after IGAU was released. Some did(mostly west coast), but the majority dropped it like a hot potato. I expect people to say they will continue to play Injustice when MK10 is announced, but will drop it as well. Life goes on.

What most people don't realize though, is that Injustice has 2 big components of the audience:

1) People who are playing it because they played MK and Injustice was the next game by the same company
2) People who didn't play or care about MK, but like DC comics or found Injustice appealing because it's a cool game and has crossups and other such mechanics

I think that no matter what, some people will only like Injustice, some people will only like MK, and some people will like both. But we can't act like it's all the same group of people and they will all jump ship no matter what.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

What most people don't realize though, is that Injustice has 2 big components of the audience:

1) People who are playing it because they played MK and Injustice was the next game by the same company
2) People who didn't play or care about MK, but like DC comics or found Injustice appealing because it's a cool game and has crossups and other such mechanics

I think that no matter what, some people will only like Injustice, some people will only like MK, and some people will like both. But we can't act like it's all the same group of people and they will all jump ship no matter ehat.

that is true, but TYM goers are a HUGE part of the entrants for IGAU. So when mk10 drops, it can definitely be inferred that a lot less will eventually play IGAU.

 

[STRYKIE]

I mean, I'm not sure if you watched the tournament -- but in Top 8 PBoard literally pulled Ermac out for one game, lost the game, and went to Lao for the rest of the Set (and the rest of Top 8). I mean sure, if the tournament is seeded well, you can play whoever you want to in the first few rounds in pools. But when things 'get real', the result is that 90% of the matches in Top 8 were people using the Top 3 or so characters. And most of the rest were using Top 5 characters.

It literally looked like this:
1) EGP FLK PBoard 88 (Kung Lao, Ermac)
2) KIT Forever King (Kung Lao, Cyrax, Kenshi)
3) GGA 16 Bit (Kitana)
4) EGP West Coast Jeff (Kabal)
5) C88 DJT (Cyrax)
5) EGP FLK MF Slayer (Kabal)
7) EGP Krayzie (Cyrax)
7) C88 MIT (Sonya, Cyrax, Kabal)

To me that's a clear a statement as any regarding why a lot of people choose not to play anymore. Doesn't mean it's not a fun game, but the issues are readily apparent.

Dude, he used Ermac against Bit for the whole match (albeit, he did contemplate going with Freddy), and when the hell did Malik use Kabal? are you sure you was watching the top 8?

 

[Justice]

Pboard believes Ermac beats Lao (which, I can't help but raise an eyebrow at, but I don't play either character), and in the grand scheme of it, it doesn't change the fact that he was more prominent in the tournament than characters that are considered locks for the top 10, which Ermac clearly isn't.



Again, Sonic Fox's Mileena speaks volumes while Sonya and Kenshi never won a major. And essentially speaking, both of those games have far more serviceable training modes than MK9, it's hard to argue that MK9's midcarders becoming main-eventers in Injustice was a coincidence. I say this all in the nicest respect possible.

Sonya did finally win a major after two and a half years. I forget which one though. Sonic Fox won with her.

 

[STRYKIE]

"the community" isn't a hive mind. This is what you talk about non stop it's even in your signature.

BTW didn't you downplay IAGB and call it irrelevant in the current meta?

I said that about IAFBs in general. Which that by itself, I admit is a subjective opinion.

And it was an inside joke, TYM won't let me get rid of it lol.

EDIT: Speaking of beehive mindsets, aren't you the same guy that lumps the entire UK scene together of the advocate of some Mega-Safe granny style no-gimmicks Kung Lao? (which I genuinely find funny by the way)

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Dude, he used Ermac against Bit for the whole match (albeit, he did contemplate going with Freddy), and when the hell did Malik use Kabal? are you sure you was watching the top 8?

No you're right, but that further proves the point -- the single match in Top 8 where he stuck with Ermac was the one match where he wasn't facing a Top 5 character. If anything that solidifies exactly what people have been saying.

The list of characters is the list of characters people played in the tourney, meaning that that's what it took for them to make it as far as they did.

 

[VenomX-90]

I will be a fan of MK until the day I die. Idgaf, if the "Top Players" of the FGC just desert it b/c its not "Popular" anymore.

 

[STRYKIE]

No you're right, but that further proves the point -- the single match in Top 8 where he stuck with Ermac was the one match where he wasn't facing a Top 5 character. If anything that solidifies exactly what people have been saying.

Where 3 of the top 6 characters have never won a major themselves....

Sonya did finally win a major after two and a half years. I forget which one though. Sonic Fox won with her.

Not being a dick, but it'd have to take more verification than that to confirm it was a major per se.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Where 3 of the top 6 characters have never won a major themselves....

Winning the tournament doesn't make you the absolute top character -- being top is what helps you win. When a Top 8 is filled with Cyraxes, Kabals, and Kenshi's, it makes no difference to a Noob Saibot player if it's the Cyrax, the Kabal or the Kenshi that ultimately wins in Grand Finals and takes 1st prize. The barrier to entry is the same either way.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

No you're right, but that further proves the point -- the single match in Top 8 where he stuck with Ermac was the one match where he wasn't facing a Top 5 character. If anything that solidifies exactly what people have been saying.

The list of characters is the list of characters people played in the tourney, meaning that that's what it took for them to make it as far as they did.

I did use kabal for fun tho , but yeah all the characters in the top 8 were definitely the better characters in the game. Either way, mk10 is going to be great and that is all ppl should care about now, until then tho, IGAU at MLG

 

[STRYKIE]

Winning a the tournament doesn't make you the top character -- being top is what helps you win. When a Top 8 is filled with Cyraxes, Kabals, and Kenshi's, it makes no difference to a Noob Saibot player if it's the Cyrax, the Kabal or the Kenshi that ultimately takes 1st prize. The barrier to entry is the same either way.

That same Noob Saibot player may well rather fight a bunch of Kenshis as apposed to lower mid tier characters, I get what you're saying, but you're making very hear-say generalizations. It's like the whole Tekken 6 Bob fiasco, he wasn't even a top 3 character, low and behold...

 

[juicepouch]

but kenshi has his even and losing mus does he not? thats what makes him different from kabal. it looks like mk9 players dropped the ball for not banning kabal when you look at how more the game could have evolved for the future

It wouldn't have helped balance enough to matter. Kabal beat everyone in the game, sure, but Kenshi bodied a ton of the cast much worse than Kabal did so the low tiers would still have pretty nill chances of making major noise. Then you could say "well why not just ban Kenshi, too?" but then what about Cyrax? What about Sonya? etc. etc. Sure you could pull Kabal but the other members of the top 5 still body the shit out of pretty much the rest of the cast, so you're not helping anybody much in doing so. The balance issues weren't JUST Kabal, but Kabal highlighted the balance issues

 

[STRYKIE]

I did use kabal for fun tho , but yeah all the characters in the top 8 were definitely the better characters in the game. Either way, mk10 is going to be great and that is all ppl should care about now, until then tho, IGAU at MLG

Nonetheless, it's apparently systematically possible to use 3 characters in a top 8 if you only play 1 match in it

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Nonetheless, it's apparently systematically possible to use 3 characters in a top 8 if you only play 1 match in it

The list of characters is the list of characters people played in the tourney, meaning that that's what it took for them to make it as far as they did.

 

[STRYKIE]

It wouldn't have helped balance enough to matter. Kabal beat everyone in the game, sure, but Kenshi bodied a ton of the cast much worse than Kabal did so the low tiers would still have pretty nill chances of making major noise. Then you could say "well why not just ban Kenshi, too?" but then what about Cyrax? What about Sonya? etc. etc. Sure you could pull Kabal but the other members of the top 5 still body the shit out of pretty much the rest of the cast, so you're not helping anybody much in doing so. The balance issues weren't JUST Kabal, but Kabal highlighted the balance issues

While there where high tier characters who suffered more against Kenshi than Kabal, there was characters in the lower half of the tier list who arguably went even with Kenshi. That's design/testing circumstance. Not quite the same thing as Kabal's matchup chart showing more and more disparity the further down the tier list you went.