Lets talk about Shadow Counters

[dotunderscore]

As an Orchid player SC are very tough for me to deal with. Almost all of her special moves are multi-hitting and easier to SC than other characters special moves. Even her overhead and sweep are both double hits! Life for Orchid is going to get very tough in the future if people get on point with SC's.

She can delay her hits though. This helps her out against Shadow Counters is that the window is pretty tight (5 frames?).

What I hate about Orchid's Shadow Counter is that often they can just start mashing lights and poke her out of it. I wish her SC move were 0 frames (or if you had an option to use the upper firecat)

 

[Vagrant]

wow that's actually a really good idea lol

If he does hail or shatter your screwed. and glacius players love to cancel into both of those

 

[ShadowBeatz]

What I hate about Orchid's Shadow Counter is that often they can just start mashing lights and poke her out of it. I wish her SC move were 0 frames (or if you had an option to use the upper firecat)

This is the case with every character

 

[dotunderscore]

This is the case with every character

Even Sabre? His is 2 frames (vs Orchid's 6) and I don't think I have ever done it

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Even Sabre? His is 2 frames (vs Orchid's 6) and I don't think I have ever done it

I'm pretty sure yeah. I'll test it

 

[Johnny San]

I don't really like SC. A bar for a follow-up that can be broken never appealed to me.

It's even worse when I'm ass at manuals. I'm sure it's a great tool for those who can pull them off.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Even Sabre? His is 2 frames (vs Orchid's 6) and I don't think I have ever done it

Okay, so here's what I found regarding Wulf's Shadow Counter after a jump in. It seems I was wrong. (EDIT: I neglected to test light kicks.)

No character can poke him out, even if they are mashing standing light punch or crouching light punch

Jago can block the shadow counter if his crouching light punch get countered, but not his standing one.

Sadira can block the shadow counter if her standing light gets countered, but not her crouching one.

Sabrewulf, Glacius, Orchid, Thunder and Spinal can't block the shadow counter.

 

[Banemobius]

I don't know if this is doable by every character, but in a Spinal vs Jago match if Jago does shadow laser sword and you block it you can shadow counter any hit of laser sword. However, if you SC too early you will miss entirely and just get hit.

 

[JoeKingJay]

She can delay her hits though. This helps her out against Shadow Counters is that the window is pretty tight (5 frames?).

What I hate about Orchid's Shadow Counter is that often they can just start mashing lights and poke her out of it. I wish her SC move were 0 frames (or if you had an option to use the upper firecat)

I thought that she could only delay her heavy version of ichi ni san? My concern is that her flick flack, overhead and sweep are all multi-hitting. She is committed to those moves and she can't cancel them before the SC.

Yes, I have been snubbed too many times by light pokes against her SC. I wouldn't mind a buff to her SC frames as most of her moves are multi-hitting and easier to SC than most of the other cast IMO. I think that it would balance her out and not be op.

 

[dotunderscore]

I thought that she could only delay her heavy version of ichi ni san?

The Heavy she can charge but she can also delay the inputs for the light/medium.

Here is what the Prima Guide says: "Both the low and overhead follow-ups are slightly delayable, which comes in handy for throwing off an opponent’s timing should he or she try to fuzzy guard Shadow Counter."

I typically stay away from using her medium Ich Ni San unless they are just turtling and only use Flick Flack after hit confirming a normal - it's just too punishable. Her overhead (F+HK) is best with instinct and I really only use her sweep against a dash-happy charging Thunder w Instinct