Lets talk about Shadow Counters

[Vagrant]

This is probably the most underutilized aspect of the game right now for how significant it is.

I wanted to get some discussion started on how you use them and how you think they should be used.

I'll start I guess

I mainly use them after blocked shadow moves, or blocked multi hitting moves. (Ragged edge, flik flak, doublekick, etc.)

I've been blown up online a lot recently by people who SC after they block a jump in. So basically when I go to follow up with whatever normal it gets SC'd and I eat damage. There have also been people who throw them out after I poke, basically making a read that I'm going to cancel the poke into blade spin. (Both of these are risky if I don't follow up)

I try to plan my use of shadow moves around whether or not they have a shadow counter available (1 bar of meter). If they don't have the bar, I can throw out shadow moves with little fear of being blown up.


How do you guys utilize this tool?

 

[Killphil]

So I take it you can't use Shadow Counters on jump ins?

Also can you shadow counter when not in blockstun? I forgot. And yea, it seems like shadow counters were implemented specifically for those pesky multi hitting shadow moves or specials in general. Kinda keeps the "throw specials/supers that are safe on block" people in check. And I've had instances where someone would shadow counter me and I'd still be able to block.

 

[Vagrant]

So I take it you can't use Shadow Counters on jump ins?

Also can you shadow counter when not in blockstun? I forgot. And yea, it seems like shadow counters were implemented specifically for those pesky multi hitting shadow moves or specials in general. Kinda keeps the "throw specials/supers that are safe on block" people in check. And I've had instances where someone would shadow counter me and I'd still be able to block.

I don't think you can shadow counter jump ins.

I don't remember if you can shadow counter while not in block stun.

yeah i've had times where I've been shadow countered but somehow still blew them up too. I'm not sure exactly what the circumstances need to be for this to happen.

 

[Tony at Home]

So I take it you can't use Shadow Counters on jump ins?

Also can you shadow counter when not in blockstun? I forgot. And yea, it seems like shadow counters were implemented specifically for those pesky multi hitting shadow moves or specials in general. Kinda keeps the "throw specials/supers that are safe on block" people in check. And I've had instances where someone would shadow counter me and I'd still be able to block.

You can only Shadow Counter when you are in block-stun. So you can't SC the jump-in move itself, but the follow up move you can.


I tend to Shadow Counter alot on memorized block-strings that I find some people prefer.
This is because I have difficulty reacting to a shadow counter-able move itself, like Double Roundhouse, or Ragged Edge- but if I know the move is coming, I'll definitely Shadow Counter. Risky sometimes, but I seem to lack the reflexes to Shadow Counter normals unless its out of anticipation.

I almost never Shadow Counter a Shadow move if the opponent has Instinct Mode ready though. Alot of people have picked up on the tactic of doing an Instinct Cancel right before the final hit of a Shadow Move to protect them from Shadow Counters and to get you to waste your meter.

 

[Vagrant]

I almost never Shadow Counter a Shadow move if the opponent has Instinct Mode ready though. Alot of people have picked up on the tactic of doing an Instinct Cancel right before the final hit of a Shadow Move to protect them from Shadow Counters and to get you to waste your meter.

Yeah I forgot to mention this. I don't advise shadow countering if they have instinct after a blocked shadow move.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

I've actually blown myself up with an instinct cancel after a shadow move by trying to mix my opponent up with a low attack which still triggered the shadow counter.

 

[Tony at Home]

yeah i've had times where I've been shadow countered but somehow still blew them up too. I'm not sure exactly what the circumstances need to be for this to happen.

I've noticed this too. It's kinda weird.

For example, you can Shadow Counter a Double Roundhouse that is canceled into Laser Sword, before the second hit of the Round House, and it doesn't get stuffed by the Laser Sword hit after the double roundhouse..

But you can't shadow counter before the second hit in a 3-hit Magic Series string from Sabrewulf, or you'll get blown up. Same for a 3 hit Triplax from Thunder. Even though arguably, there's as much time between the second and third hit of Sabrewulf's magic series, and the second and third hit of Triplax, as there is between the second hit of a double roundhouse and a light laser sword cancel.

 

[Vagrant]

I've got it figured out. Thanks to dizzy for this actually


The shadow counter is active for 5 frames. Once the shadow counter happens they will do a shadow move.

BUT there is actual startup on this shadow move.

So if you chain jab jab together and they SC the first jab. If the second jab is active before whatever shadow move the character has for their shadow counter. the jab will stuff it and they have to hold that.

So basically if I do Cr. LP Cr. LP and a jago shadow counters the first Cr. LP, when Jago shadow counters the move that he counters with afterwards is his EX shadow kick (6f). The second Cr. LK (5f) will beat it.

 

[Dizzy]

I've got it figured out. Thanks to dizzy for this actually


The shadow counter is active for 5 frames. Once the shadow counter happens they will do a shadow move.

BUT there is actual startup on this shadow move.

So if you chain jab jab together and they SC the first jab. If the second jab is active before whatever shadow move the character has for their shadow counter. the jab will stuff it and they have to hold that.

So basically if I do Cr. LK Cr. LK and a jago shadow counters the first Cr. LK, when Jago shadow counters the move that he counters with afterwards is his EX shadow kick (6f). The second Cr. LK (5f) will beat it.

Change that to cr.lp and it would work, jagos shadow counter is his wind kick which is low immune

 

[Vagrant]

Change that to cr.lp and it would work, jagos shadow counter is his wind kick which is low immune

memorize ALLLLLLLLL the things!

 

[RikoLaw]

The SC has a zipline sound that comes out before the animation. When I use my turtle beach headset I can hear it behind the blocked hit sfx - it been helping me prevent getting hit when I go for cr jab jab laser sword. Usually I can full combo but sometimes when attack too early it still hits and I have to get to guessing.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

It is really a reactionary type thing. I don't know exactly how i'd react to someone who SC'd very early and often on block strings.

I do pay attention to NOT SC when my opponent has instinct.

 

[Northern Slasher]

When you SC normal specials like a flick flack, is it the same deal as a Shadow Flick Flack? I.E wait for the 2nd last or last hit before SC'ing?

 

[Vagrant]

When you SC normal specials like a flick flack, is it the same deal as a Shadow Flick Flack? I.E wait for the 2nd last or last hit before SC'ing?

Yes.

 

[JoeKingJay]

As an Orchid player SC are very tough for me to deal with. Almost all of her special moves are multi-hitting and easier to SC than other characters special moves. Even her overhead and sweep are both double hits! Life for Orchid is going to get very tough in the future if people get on point with SC's.

I tend to use SC's in combos with Orchid to rack up damage quickly, especially if I get a lock out; or, to SC shadow moves. I try to use it against double roundhouse happy Jago's and heavy widow's bite sadistic Sadira's.

I too think that this part of the game in underdeveloped. It will be interesting to see how this mechanic changes the game in the future.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

I've been blown up online a lot recently by people who SC after they block a jump in

I do this all the time. Like you said, it's risky as hell because if they jump again, throw, mash a quick poke 2 or 3 times or poke and then block, I'm out a bar of meter and I'm eating damage for it, but this game is all about risk/reward so I throw it out there more than anyone I've seen tbh.

It's actually because of SC'ing after jump-ins that I've beaten a few people whom I've had absolutely no business beating

 

[G4S KT]

Characters who are vulnerable to Shadow Counters:

Most Vulnerable: Sabre, Jago, Orchid

Slightly Less Vulnerable: Thunder

Not As Vulnerable: Sadira, Spinal

Barely Applicable: Glacius

 

[Hellbringer]

When sadira does her heavy daggers you can SC it too but timing is kinda strict

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Barely Applicable: Glacius

I love SC'ing Glacius. They're all like "I'ma keep my distance with my jumping ice lance into my standing ice lance" and I'm all "Shadow Counter the standing ice lance I'M IN THERE BITCH!!!"

 

[JoeKingJay]

Characters who are vulnerable to Shadow Counters:

Most Vulnerable: Sabre, Jago, Orchid

Slightly Less Vulnerable: Thunder

Not As Vulnerable: Sadira, Spinal

Barely Applicable: Glacius

I feel that Orchid is going to be in a lot of trouble in the future if people start implementing more SC's against special moves. I think she might actually be the easiest character to SC. Almost all of her moves are multi-hitting (flick-flack, ichi ni san, overhead, sweep) and on the slower side compared to other characters.

 

[Maasik]

I feel that Orchid is going to be in a lot of trouble in the future if people start implementing more SC's against special moves. I think she might actually be the easiest character to SC. Almost all of her moves are multi-hitting (flick-flack, ichi ni san, overhead, sweep) and on the slower side compared to other characters.

That's when you can make reads and counter the shadow counter, the rock-paper-scissors mind games in this game are very strong and get even more in-depth with characters like Orchid or Jago.

 

[G4S KT]

I love SC'ing Glacius. They're all like "I'ma keep my distance with my jumping ice lance into my standing ice lance" and I'm all "Shadow Counter the standing ice lance I'M IN THERE BITCH!!!"

wow that's actually a really good idea lol

 

[JoeKingJay]

That's when you can make reads and counter the shadow counter, the rock-paper-scissors mind games in this game are very strong and get even more in-depth with characters like Orchid or Jago.

If you do a flick flack, overhead or sweep you are already committed to that multi-hitting move and open to a SC. I'm curious as to what you mean by counter the SC? I'm interested in reading why you believe the mind games are more in-depth with Orchid. Cheers.

 

[Maasik]

If you do a flick flack, overhead or sweep you are already committed to that multi-hitting move and open to a SC. I'm curious as to what you mean by counter the SC? I'm interested in reading why you believe the mind games are more in-depth with Orchid. Cheers.

By countering the SC I mean counter breakers. I believe they become more in-depth because since they are more susceptible to shadow counters they would have to make more reads and use counter breakers more often than other characters; although by what you've said I guess you can't counter break in the middle of normals, although it is still possible with the multi-hitting special moves.

 

[Flawless Thomas]

I love SC'ing Glacius. They're all like "I'ma keep my distance with my jumping ice lance into my standing ice lance" and I'm all "Shadow Counter the standing ice lance I'M IN THERE BITCH!!!"

I hate you lmao