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Shoryuken dot com's World Rankings

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I disagree with 9 month rule I feel like everything should be tallied in from the beginning and end of a games life. Unless you do different versions like Street Fighter has SF4, SSF4, SSF4AE, SSF4AE2012 and USF4. For example 2011 was year of SSF4AE and Fuudo was ranked #1. Daigo was ranked #1 for SF4 and SSF4 cause he won evo in both and the most tournaments. SSF4AE2012 is infiltration cause he won evo in 2012, the 25 anniversary tourney and he got top 8 at evo this year. He is still #1 in the world rankings.

Well thing is I'm not going by any set of how many people entered or anything. I am 100% going by what they put so however prestigious the event is its up to the players to show up and reinforce that prestige. That is how I look at it anyway. I'm not adding or altering anything cause then I would be doing stuff based off my own opinion and that would screw things up. Rankings have to be 100% off already set guidelines and statistical categories. Me nor anyone else I feel is in a position to change anything.
Main issue w this is no one will travel ever to any other events other than prestigious ones and new ones won't stand a chance in growth
 

Tom Brady

Champion
NCR is a side tournament for IGAU.

I know you hate how EC has many majors a year and have always been vocal on how you do not consider many of them real majors. I agree that some of them are more like mid-majors then majors but there are a few that should be higher.
 
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rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I disagree with 9 month rule I feel like everything should be tallied in from the beginning and end of a games life. Unless you do different versions like Street Fighter has SF4, SSF4, SSF4AE, SSF4AE2012 and USF4. For example 2011 was year of SSF4AE and Fuudo was ranked #1. Daigo was ranked #1 for SF4 and SSF4 cause he won evo in both and the most tournaments. SSF4AE2012 is infiltration cause he won evo in 2012, the 25 anniversary tourney and he got top 8 at evo this year. He is still #1 in the world rankings.

Well thing is I'm not going by any set of how many people entered or anything. I am 100% going by what they put so however prestigious the event is its up to the players to show up and reinforce that prestige. That is how I look at it anyway. I'm not adding or altering anything cause then I would be doing stuff based off my own opinion and that would screw things up. Rankings have to be 100% off already set guidelines and statistical categories. Me nor anyone else I feel is in a position to change anything.
There can be a consensus though. Our community is different than the whole Fgc. The tekken community even would probably agree that fr and ncr aren't on the same level. Different tournaments have different levels of prestige for our game, and even if it were opinionated, it would look better than a tournament our game isn't even at being ranked above our most prestigious majors.
 

TomlulsBrady

Kombatant
I don't understand? If were counting the game from launch how is PL ranked way over Tom and right under a guy who has placed at every tournament he has ever been to in every era of the game.
 

Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV
Administrator
The SRK ranking system is pretty much an exact copy of my system, except more limited since it doesn't allow "claiming".

They probably just stated its from the "Woman's" association to try to pretend its different from mine. I have a lot of beef with those guys and they would rather not give credence to any work I've done.

*EDIT* In fact, they go further to pretend its different in their FAQ where they talk about tournaments being rated based on "weight" of the relative skill of the top 8 players... but then immediately afterwards completely contradict this statement by clearly defining static and flat point values for tournaments.

It also looks like they don't "stale" out older rankings, nor do they put an emphasis on limiting result totals... so even though its the same system, they score a flat amount, don't stale old rankings, and give advantages to people who can attend the most events. If anything, the way they use the system gives more precedence to Pig of the Hut's complaints than mine. Since mine is specifically designed to fight against the idea of "east coast having more majors".
 

REDRUM

www.twitter.com/redrum26
The SRK ranking system is pretty much an exact copy of my system, except more limited since it doesn't allow "claiming".

They probably just stated its from the "Woman's" association to try to pretend its different from mine. I have a lot of beef with those guys and they would rather not give credence to any work I've done.

@STORMS i think inserting jaxel's system into this sites software would be a great idea... Im sure a few things can be tweaked if needed... No? @Jaxel ??
 

STORMS

Co-founder
Administrator
@STORMS i think inserting jaxel's system into this sites software would be a great idea... Im sure a few things can be tweaked if needed... No? @Jaxel ??
If it was up to me personally, this system would already be installed... or very close to it. However, this isn't my decision alone. I also asked the community SEVERAL months back about adding this system (it's $200) and I didn't get the best feedback.

@THTB @CrimsonShadow @Shock @ZAQ

Remember, we're here for you guys... so, we are on the hunt to provide the best things possible.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Remember, we're here for you guys... so, we are on the hunt to provide the best things possible.
For reasons that have been described multiple times now, we are moving towards structuring a system around the way our community works. We have our own attendance patterns, regional considerations and travel constraints.

This will not be rushed -- you can not rush into a system that will determine people's bracket placement at events. It's too important.

So for everyone that is hell-bent on throwing anything into place or forcing one particular system as the perfect solution to the world's problems, please relax: we are talking all of these things through and working to come to a solution that best fits realistic expectations and factors for our community.

Until then, please stop trying to force XYZ system through while we consider, contrast/compare and weigh all the factors involved :)
 

Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV
Administrator
one particular system as the perfect solution
There is no perfect solution. Just solutions that fit the given need.

I personally believe that ATP is better for non-structured tournaments (which is how the FGC works, our tournaments are not part of circuits/leagues)... While ELO is better for structured series (and 1-on-1).
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
There is no perfect solution. Just solutions that fit the given need.

I personally believe that ATP is better for non-structured tournaments (which is how the FGC works, our tournaments are not part of circuits/leagues)... While ELO is better for structured series (and 1-on-1).
I'm not going to argue this with you here, because I've been through it before.. But ELO was created for (and is most prominently used for) a community setup that exactly mirrors ours. The Chess Federation is the FGC. They are about as close as you can possibly get. Same types of events, same fluctuating levels of interest/attendance, same mix between high and low level players, events held in hotel ballrooms, college campuses etc. Any player can enter most of the tournaments and there are few guarantees to who will be there.

However, I am not attached to one particular system -- it's about finding the right fit. And most of the considerations that are being discussed go far beyond simply which type of system to use as the base.

So again, for those who don't know what's going on, I'd encourage you to wait and be patient. The discussion is a lot deeper and wider ranging than this.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
There is no perfect solution. Just solutions that fit the given need.

I personally believe that ATP is better for non-structured tournaments (which is how the FGC works, our tournaments are not part of circuits/leagues)... While ELO is better for structured series (and 1-on-1).
Ok but if ATP in implemented we need NON players making brackets and pools

I'm open to your system definitely though
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
If it was up to me personally, this system would already be installed... or very close to it. However, this isn't my decision alone. I also asked the community SEVERAL months back about adding this system (it's $200) and I didn't get the best feedback.

@THTB @CrimsonShadow @Shock @ZAQ

Remember, we're here for you guys... so, we are on the hunt to provide the best things possible.
We all are in discussion lol
 

Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV
Administrator
I'm not going to argue this with you here, because I've been through it before.. But ELO was created for (and is most prominently used for) a community setup that exactly mirrors ours. The Chess Federation is the FGC. They are about as close as you can possibly get. Same types of events, same fluctuating levels of interest/attendance, same mix between high and low level players, events held in hotel ballrooms, college campuses etc.
Actually, its not the same. In order to attend an event in the Chess Federation, you must register, under your real name. If a player is not a member of the Chess Federation, they become one right there; since rankings are recorded by legal names. When you attend a USFC event, you KNOW in advanced if it is a "sanctioned" event... the FGC has no sanctioning body.

When you attend a tournament in the FGC; there is nothing requiring you to be a registered member of the "FGC" (or in this case, TYM). Not everybody in a tournament has an account on TYM. When Mortal Kombat 10 comes out, you will see it, a good 50% of people who attend tournaments will do so during the first month of release, never make an account on TYM, and never attend another tournament again. My system allows tournaments to handle "unranked" players... and of course, later allows them to become ranked by "claiming" their past results. In order for ELO to work, EVERY player in an event must be registered... otherwise players are completing pointless matches that don't affect their rank except to get in their way. Matches because "stop-gaps" to matches that actually matter. If you wanted to do ELO, you would have to require every person who attends a tournament to create an account on TYM on the spot; since rankings are recorded by TYM user names.

Just because the venues are the same, doesn't mean the Chess Federation has the same structure.

Another thing with the Chess Federation is that in order for an event to be ranked by the federation, it must be approved in advance. Tournament organizers who want their events ranked in the federation usually do so by strictly adhering to USCF guidelines and requirements for FIDE fulfillment. The FGC does not operate this way, we don't have a central body controlling all the movements and actions of all of our tournament organizers... in a community such as ours, which is so "boys-club" driven, that's not something I would even want.

I mean, if you can convince EVERY tournament organizer for Injustice in the world, to ensure that EVERY player who attends their events create an account on TYM (or they are not allowed to enter the tournament)... AND convince them to submit their FULL tournament results, linked to TYM account names immediately after each event... then go for ELO. However, TO's in the FGC are extremely unorganized. It was hard enough getting some of the TO's to handle online registration, and the majority of events are still run on paper brackets. So I don't see this happening anytime soon.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Another thing with the Chess Federation is that in order for an event to be ranked by the federation, it must be approved in advance. Tournament organizers who want their events ranked in the federation usually do so by strictly adhering to USCF guidelines and requirements for FIDE fulfillment. The FGC does not operate this way, we don't have a central body controlling all the movements and actions of all of our tournament organizers... in a community such as ours, which is so "boys-club" driven, that's not something I would even want.

I mean, if you can convince EVERY tournament organizer for Injustice in the world, to ensure that EVERY player who attends their events create an account on TYM (or they are not allowed to enter the tournament)... AND convince them to submit their FULL tournament results, linked to TYM account names immediately after each event... then go for ELO. However, TO's in the FGC are extremely unorganized. It was hard enough getting some of the TO's to handle online registration, and the majority of events are still run on paper brackets. So I don't see this happening anytime soon.
Some things are changing -- there are a lot of things that won't be done the same way in the near future. Right now everything is moving toward some sort of organization, and establishing a legitimate continuity between events.

Which is why, as I said, this is a much bigger discussion that simply which mathematical base to use. So I'm going to quote my post again, and I ask you to please read it this time:

However, I am not attached to one particular system -- it's about finding the right fit. And most of the considerations that are being discussed go far beyond simply which type of system to use as the base.

So again, for those who don't know what's going on, I'd encourage you to wait and be patient. The discussion is a lot deeper and wider ranging than this
.
 
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Jaxel

8WAYRUN.TV
Administrator
We(American fgc) don't need the disorganized world tournaments to sign up to make legit world rankings. This is Murica. We have world champions in any sport, and don't care if we actually play the rest of the world. Baseball has the World Series; Basketball has the world championship. But seriously, why can't you just disregard the ones who don't have their shit together, and include the ones who do go through all the trouble to register their players, and send in the results. If you did that, wouldn't more of the disorganized players get their act together? I like the ELO idea.
Then not a single EC event would ever get ranked... since the major TOs on the EC are the most disorganized of them all. You think the average TOs will care about the ranking system on some random website that they don't run and don't make any money off of?
 

REDRUM

www.twitter.com/redrum26
If it was up to me personally, this system would already be installed... or very close to it. However, this isn't my decision alone. I also asked the community SEVERAL months back about adding this system (it's $200) and I didn't get the best feedback.

@THTB @CrimsonShadow @Shock @ZAQ

Remember, we're here for you guys... so, we are on the hunt to provide the best things possible.

just implement it IMO... These ranking "arguments" date back years and there isnt a PERFECT Ranking system in most sports if not all... The BCS, AP, NFL Power Ranknigs, Nascar etc etc... the arguments will go on to infinite... But the "arguments" are actually a GOOD thing (arguments stimulate traffic, attention , whatever you wanna call it, which is why I also separately disagree with most thread closures on the site., but thats asides this point) :cool: