The problem with seeding in tournaments

[Insuperable]

Outside of people who register at the door instead of pre-registering for half the price, what is the issue with seeding? Seeding gives people an opportunity to perform well and have a greater chance to place high because of their past accomplishments. I see nothing wrong with people looking for this. However, some people are looking for this and are "undeserving." I have not seen Sonic Fox, KDZ, Theo, or Forever King complain about seeding yet, and they are arguably the top 4 Injustice players at the moment. I believe that seeding should be a viable options ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO CONSISTENTLY PLACE WELL. If you place top 8 once, why would you have priorities over someone who consistently places 9-16? If you won a 50 man tournament, why would you have priorities over someone who placed 7th at a 150 man tournament, just because you're the champion at a tournament with less participants/competition? I believe seeding should be an option, but until I see the legitimate top players of the Injustice scene looking for seeding, I don't see why we should abide by their rules.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Outside of people who register at the door instead of pre-registering for half the price, what is the issue with seeding? Seeding gives people an opportunity to perform well and have a greater chance to place high because of their past accomplishments. I see nothing wrong with people looking for this. However, some people are looking for this and are "undeserving." I have not seen Sonic Fox, KDZ, Theo, or Forever King complain about seeding yet, and they are arguably the top 4 Injustice players at the moment. I believe that seeding should be a viable options ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO CONSISTENTLY PLACE WELL. If you place top 8 once, why would you have priorities over someone who consistently places 9-16? If you won a 50 man tournament, why would you have priorities over someone who placed 7th at a 150 man tournament, just because you're the champion at a tournament with less participants/competition? I believe seeding should be an option, but until I see the legitimate top players of the Injustice scene looking for seeding, I don't see why we should abide by their rules.

Yea because This explains why jrosa, rasaan were top seeds and PPJ, winner of Nec wasn't

 

[16 Bit]

KDZ does complain. He went ape over VXG seeding. PPJ has been silent and didn't complain for months. He didn't mind until the 3rd time he was fucked.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

I have not seen...Theo....complain about seeding yet

Because all of my major pools have been fairly light, save for NEC which wasn't even a death pool.

 

[lm Tweakk]

Gee. I sure wonder why everyone picked the first option.

 

[Tataklee]

Gee. I sure wonder why everyone picked the first option.

Because it's a palindrome! That's totally badass, dood.

 

[TotteryManx]

The real problem with seeding is that no one is discussing(as far as I know) why would someone from 3-4 tournaments ago be seeded? Seeding should work on a tournament to tournament basis. Going into Civil War, players should be seeded based off top 8 performance from Final Round. If there aren't enough people attending Civil War that attended FR, then you go back a tournament further. 9th place-through whatever should not be rewarded imo. Seeding should be something that you work hard to earn and should reward good players who travel consistently. Handing down seeding points for mediocre performances is unacceptable. This is not a difficult subject by any means..the problem with this subject is players that are looking out for their best interest, even if they haven't placed top 8 in a long time, just so they can stay relevant. It's the truth.

Why would one tournament from 6 months ago hold precedence over top 8 placers from recent tournaments? You can only seed SO MANY PLAYERS fairly. Once again...players that aren't doing well or haven't done well in awhile are looking to keep themselves relevant so they can have a easy road to top 32 by beating some random kid that plays this game casually in the first to second round. I pointed out 6 months specifically because I've heard someone say seeding should go back 7 months at least..that is INSANE. If you want a legit ranking system for seeding, then pick a major to begin the process so everyone can have a fair go at at it. Then take it from there. Don't belittle tournaments that that you didn't attend.

 

[TotteryManx]

@AK Pig Of The Hut

I've noticed you and others are trying to establish a ranking/seeding system. If I may make a suggestion; Determine how points for ranking/seeding will be distributed first and then implement the ranking/seeding after the next major. This would avoid players getting upset or bashing any system that would come into play. I feel like some players are so outspoken against seeding because of the starting point in which we would start counting. Maybe they feel like their win was so big it should count too, no matter how far back it was. Also, a lot of players haven't attended certain majors because they may not have began traveling yet or simply couldn't make it. Either way, starting fresh could give players incentive to travel to more tournaments to earn better seeding at the next event. What are your thoughts on starting a ranking/seeding system from this point forward instead of tournaments ago?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

@AK Pig Of The Hut

I've noticed you and others are trying to establish a ranking/seeding system. If I may make a suggestion; Determine how points for ranking/seeding will be distributed first and then implement the ranking/seeding after the next major. This would avoid players getting upset or bashing any system that would come into play. I feel like some players are so outspoken against seeding because of the starting point in which we would start counting. Maybe they feel like their win was so big it should count too, no matter how far back it was. Also, a lot of players haven't attended certain majors because they may not have began traveling yet or simply couldn't make it. Either way, starting fresh could give players incentive to travel to more tournaments to earn better seeding at the next event. What are your thoughts on starting a ranking/seeding system from this point forward instead of tournaments ago?

I think discounting previous tourneys makes no sense when making a system

 

[TotteryManx]

I think discounting previous tourneys makes no sense when making a system

I think you're going to see a lot of butt hurt people if someone that won a tournament 7 months ago is seeded higher than someone that placed high in the last few majors, simply because a select group of people believe the older tournament held more weight. If you don't see the problem in that...then god bless you lol.

btw...I'm not starting shit..I just think this can either be great or a complete disaster. It should be handled with complete care.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I think you're going to see a lot of butt hurt people if someone that won a tournament 7 months ago is seeded higher than someone that placed high in the last few majors, simply because a select group of people believe the older tournament held more weight. If you don't see the problem in that...then god bless you lol.

btw...I'm not starting shit..I just think this can either be great or a complete disaster. It should be handled with complete care.

Majors/regionals last 9 months
Evo a year
Not everyone at every major can travel so 9 months is fair
Sonic fox example is high on my list compiled

 

[lm Tweakk]

Because it's a palindrome! That's totally badass, dood.

Go Hang a salami Im a lasagna hog
Ultimate power.

 

[RM AtK!]

the problem with seeding is simple.. if you're crying about your pools, then you shouldnt even think youre that great of a player. If you have to whine about whos in your pool etc then obviously you had no thought of actually winning the tournament. It all comes down to deal with what hand you got and if you truely good you'll get far and if you don't then you didn't deserve to get far period.. If you cant beat everyone then step your game up. don't look for a free ride to top 8 just because of the status to make your virgin dick bigger.

 

[TotteryManx]

Majors/regionals last 9 months
Evo a year
Not everyone at every major can travel so 9 months is fair
Sonic fox example is high on my list compiled

Quick question...which tournaments in your eyes should hold the most weight outside of EVO?

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

I think people just need to get laid more

 

[TotteryManx]

the problem with seeding is simple.. if you're crying about your pools, then you shouldnt even think youre that great of a player. If you have to whine about whos in your pool etc then obviously you had no thought of actually winning the tournament. It all comes down to deal with what hand you got and if you truely good you'll get far and if you don't then you didn't deserve to get far period.. If you cant beat everyone then step your game up. don't look for a free ride to top 8 just because of the status to make your virgin dick bigger.

I'm torn on the subject, to be honest. If someone is seeded going into a tournament, that doesn't necessarily mean they wont have top players in their pool. The road to top 16 can still prove very difficult. The whole point in seeding is to separate high level players so they don't eliminate each other early on. With that said, it also helps the lower level players tremendously. I would rather have one really good player in my pool that I know of, instead of 3 or 4. It can help both ways, if you think about it. Also, someone going to a tournament for the first time that may have kept up with streams and etc. may feel overwhelmed and discouraged seeing a ton of good players in their pool. It can help everyone.

Either way, the best players will find themselves in grand finals, regardless.

 

[trufenix]

the problem with seeding is simple.. if you're crying about your pools, then you shouldnt even think youre that great of a player. If you have to whine about whos in your pool etc then obviously you had no thought of actually winning the tournament. It all comes down to deal with what hand you got and if you truely good you'll get far and if you don't then you didn't deserve to get far period.. If you cant beat everyone then step your game up. don't look for a free ride to top 8 just because of the status to make your virgin dick bigger.

The issue is not the whiners, the issue is that top 32/24/16/8 should be comprised of people of actual skill, not the 2-3 guys who survived a death pool and a bunch of guys who rode through pools with no players.

Anyway you slice it, the current system is inadequate and probably broken. Lets see what pig & co are working on behind the scenes. ANything that starts a discussion is worth having done.

 

[RM AtK!]

I'm torn on the subject, to be honest. If someone is seeded going into a tournament, that doesn't necessarily mean they wont have top players in their pool. The road to top 16 can still prove very difficult. The whole point in seeding is to separate high level players so they don't eliminate each other early on. With that said, it also helps the lower level players tremendously. I would rather have one really good player in my pool that I know of, instead of 3 or 4. It can help both ways, if you think about it. Also, someone going to a tournament for the first time that may have kept up with streams and etc. may feel overwhelmed and discouraged seeing a ton of good players in their pool. It can help everyone.

Either way, the best players will find themselves in grand finals, regardless.

The issue is not the whiners, the issue is that top 32/24/16/8 should be comprised of people of actual skill, not the 2-3 guys who survived a death pool and a bunch of guys who rode through pools with no players.

Anyway you slice it, the current system is inadequate and probably broken. Lets see what pig & co are working on behind the scenes. ANything that starts a discussion is worth having done.

i know exactly what its for.. but like i said deal with whats been givin. Theres no possible way that every single good player is gonna be in 1 pool some pools may have 3-5 instead of 1-2 oh well life goes on. Theres never gonna be a top 8 with complete shitters only in it sorry. nobody should get a comfy ride to top 8's, but i agree to the seeding in a sense to spread it out a bit. With that said, i still believe everyone whines about it way too much to where there shouldn't be any seeeding if people are going to argue and cry like little babies. The best players are gonna place top 3 no matter what.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I think people just need to get laid more

"seeds" get it huehue

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Majors/regionals last 9 months
Evo a year
Not everyone at every major can travel so 9 months is fair
Sonic fox example is high on my list compiled

Setting some date doesn't make much sense there are certain times of the year that are more tournament heavy than others. I suppose if you wanted to do something like this you could just add in rank decay every time a tournament occurs. So to keep things simple I'll do an example of 3 players A, B and C.

Tourny1: A= 1st, B=2nd, C=3rd.

Seed Ranking
1.A = 3 points
2.B = 2 points
3.C = 1 points

Next tournament occurs everyone takes a decay of -1 so

Seed Ranking
1.A= 2 points
2.B= 1 points
3C= 0 points

This tourny B wins, C= 2nd, A=3rd

Seed Ranking
1.B= 5 points
2.A= 3 points
3.C= 3 points

A takes 2nd over the C tie due to holding the higher ranking prior to the tourny

Now if you want to put more value on other tournaments like Evo or the Majors the people love to debate you can do so by just awarding more points to the top positions in those tourneys so Evo could be 1st = 6 points, 2nd= 4, 3rd= 2. This would resolve the issue of players like Chris G who haven't played in a long time getting a top seed in the system but still reward players for consistently placing and having tournament attendance. Good luck finding someone to keep an accurate log of the data though and deciding which tournaments are eligible for points.

Honestly I still believe the only real seeding that matters is regional, so team mates don't have to play each other early on. But the decay system above would be a viable solution to players who are hellbent on having player ranked seeding.

 

[RNLDRGN]

I think your finish (TOP 8 ONLY) for the last major you attended (6 months max, maybe a year for EVO) should be the only method of seeding. Should someone who made top 8 at a major a year ago get seeded? No. People go on hiatus all the time, stuff happens, people get better/worse, etc. If someone wins Summer Jam, they should be graciously seeded until the following January, continue to be seeded if they place top 8 again, or until they enter another major later that year and don't get top 8. That simple.

We don't need some complicated, point-based, algorithm rollover placing system. No one will ever use it. However, if someone comes up with something equally simple that makes sense--go for it. But I think this pretty much covers it. You continue to place well at a major--great! You place well once and then lay low for 10 months--nope.

Discussing this is fun and all--but with late registrations, last minute pools, no-shows, opinions, etc. I really doubt a tournament standard can ever be implemented. Organization is key and often lacking.

 

[trufenix]

i know exactly what its for.. but like i said deal with whats been givin. Theres no possible way that every single good player is gonna be in 1 pool some pools may have 3-5 instead of 1-2 oh well life goes on. Theres never gonna be a top 8 with complete shitters only in it sorry. nobody should get a comfy ride to top 8's, but i agree to the seeding in a sense to spread it out a bit. With that said, i still believe everyone whines about it way too much to where there shouldn't be any seeeding if people are going to argue and cry like little babies. The best players are gonna place top 3 no matter what.

Don't let the "whiners" cloud your judgement. There's gonna be whiners no matter how automatic or hands on the system in play is. See: Any professional seeded sport since the history of seeded sports. Us "fixing" (though I like to think of it as modernizing) the system isn't going to change the fact that pools will occasionally be unfair to someone, that just happens.

However, if you don't seed at all no previous tournament result means anything. And if you seed arbitrarily, allowing every tournament to set its own seeding rules, you create more chaos than order. Neither of these scenarios is to anybodys benefit.