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Are we as a community ready to enforce 3/5 for the entire tournament?

Are we ready to enforce 3/5 injustice at majors?

  • Total voters
    92
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SonicBoomBrad said:
I'd rather keep it 2/3 until top 8 and I'll explain why.

This game is a heavy counterpick game. Since so many lop-sided match ups exist it makes it extremely draining to play 3/5 in every set with people counter picking. Obviously people that play top 5 characters don't really have to worry about this. But for people that play mid tier, you need a counter pick sometimes. And it's even worse if your counter pick for a bad match up isn't top 5. Because then you're dealing with a case where you have to play a counter pick, who you're not as farmiliar with, in a terrible match up for them.

An example being, I absolutely hate the Superman/DD because of obvious reasons. So I'll pick Hawkgirl (which isn't a counter but it's definitely more even IMO). And even if I win that match and a match with Doomsday, I'd have to deal with a GL counterpick or something. It's just extremely draining, specially in pools. And I feel like specially with this game, where characters are so easy to learn. It could just turn into a counterpick fest.
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Probably not. Counterpicks are already seen infrequently in 3/5 top 8s so it won't change much in pools.

Regardless, why does it matter? Counterpicking is part of the game. The better player will have a better grasp of the characters overall. The better player will more often win a 3/5 than a 2/3. It won't make much of a difference, but the better players will adapt quicker and win, even if they get scrubbed out by DD the first 2 games :p

If you have problems with your main then it is time to get better alts.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So the way I see it, running 3/5 the entire way at majors would require a much deeper level of organization and preparation than we have now. Currently, we have numerous examples of tournaments (especially eastern ones) that have run late.

Was it ECTV or Summer Jam that ran super late? Like hours late, and had to push top 16 to the next day.
Final Round ran hours late, and fortunately the venue didn't close and IGAU players were allowed to stay for hours after everyone else left.

These events were 2/3. Imagine if they'd been 3/5.

TO's who I feel could pull this off well:
Compton -- His tournaments are always a tight ship and seem to run like well-oiled machines
RapZilla -- Rapz seems to always be very prepared. But he also runs smaller tournaments; the same rules might not apply to a 100-player major.
Keits -- Keits is happy to be a 'nazi' in order to make sure things run on time. Doesn't seem to have the same issues that happen at other tournaments.

What time would Final Round have finished if it was 3/5? 5am?

Overall I am for 3/5, as I believe it enriches the IGAU tournament experience; but we'd be kidding ourselves if we said we can run things the same way as they're run now and everything will be fine time-wise. So, if this is going to happen, people's game needs to be stepped up to prepare for it.
 
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CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Ray Riazy said:
Summerjam ran late, but that wasn't because of brackets going to long. it was because of other things.
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Yeah, for sure -- but my main concern is that when 'other things' happen (and they seem to happen a lot), 3/5 means that what would be a long tournament anyway becomes even longer.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
East coast tournaments only ever run late due to delays in start because we are a big game without all the benefits of resources and numerous staff for the bigger games, and the ease of running the smaller games. TFC was the best run event we've done in a long time. It ran perfectly on time, 125 players, 9 stations. The stream was relatively on time. We had 4 staff dedicated to pools and coordinated breaks. We simply do a lot of work ourselves to make sure NRS games have existence in FGC events.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
I also want someone to explain to me what they think we are doing when tournaments run late, I mean do players think I'm sitting around playing UMK3 and coveting the brackets while players stand around patiently waiting? Problems that arise at go time are the worst. When you run a stream that isn't married to the venue's or head TO's responsibility, you have to do what you have to do. Players get upset because they miss some pools on the stream, as if we should hold up the tournament for it. We have time constraints and the bigger events become, the harder it is to do in one day. Few of you know this, but over 10 years ago when tournaments were done on cabinets, a CvS2 tournament with 128 players would take DAYS to run. Start Saturday at 10AM, finish monday at 4AM.
 
A

arde5643

Mortal
Mr Aquaman said:
If counterpicking was relevant how the fuck did catwoman make GF of FR
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I think that's only because it was 16bit, no other catwoman mains would've been able to do that feat.

Some people might say some of the people he faced didn't know the match-up, but the onus is on them to know about different kinds of match-ups.


On topic, how does Spooky maintain such smooth transition from button checks to just a match starting on stream?
Does he enforce players to make sure they do button checks before the stream is focused on the match again?
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Shock said:
East coast tournaments only ever run late due to delays in start because we are a big game without all the benefits of resources and numerous staff for the bigger games, and the ease of running the smaller games. TFC was the best run event we've done in a long time. It ran perfectly on time, 125 players, 9 stations. The stream was relatively on time. We had 4 staff dedicated to pools and coordinated breaks. We simply do a lot of work ourselves to make sure NRS games have existence in FGC events.
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So that begs the question -- given that this is the case, do you feel adequately staffed/prepared to extend 100+ player tournaments to 3/5 sets? Or is it maybe unrealistic until some things change or additional preparations are made.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
CrimsonShadow said:
So that begs the question -- given that this is the case, do you feel adequately staffed/prepared to extend 100+ player tournaments to 3/5 sets? Or is it maybe unrealistic until some things change or additional preparations are made.
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We need 1 stream producer, rotating commentators, which there are plenty of players to run through now at the bigger events, 1 back up stream producer if feasible, (or any one of the numerous players we have slowly been training to at least change names and scenes to randomly fill in), 4 bracket runners who are allowed to take breaks during the entirety of their pools if they are playing. I like to have 2 on running the brackets and 1 extra to find players. Rotate the remaining one for breaks.

If this can be guaranteed every time, then 128 player tournaments can run on 8 or 9 setups at 3/5. For FR, I brought Fran and Arma and offered them as staff, they weren't scheduled to be staff until I told them, in fact one of their TOs said something like "LOL I like that he brings his own staff" or something like that. We didn't really get much else because they were light on staff in general from what I was told.
 
Mr Aquaman

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Shock said:
We need 1 stream producer, rotating commentators, which there are plenty of players to run through now at the bigger events, 1 back up stream producer if feasible, (or any one of the numerous players we have slowly been training to at least change names and scenes to randomly fill in), 4 bracket runners who are allowed to take breaks during the entirety of their pools if they are playing. I like to have 2 on running the brackets and 1 extra to find players. Rotate the remaining one for breaks.

If this can be guaranteed every time, then 128 player tournaments can run on 8 or 9 setups at 3/5. For FR, I brought Fran and Arma and offered them as staff, they weren't scheduled to be staff until I told them, in fact one of their TOs said something like "LOL I like that he brings his own staff" or something like that. We didn't really get much else because they were light on staff in general from what I was told.
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KH StarCharger

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
I'd love 3/5. We started off that way in the early stages of the game post-EVO due to us having the shortest top 8 and for some reason we got away from it in spite of it's success.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
arde5643 said:
Will 3/5 for top 16 or top 8 for majors be more manageable?
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Top 8 depends on the streamer's decision to allow the necessary time. Remember, Injustice at FR had SEVERAL 2-0 matches, this is very rare to get what, 3 or 4 in a row it was? The GFs only went 3 matches, no reset. The whole thing took an hourish and could have been 2 hours easily. 3/5 will ensure every Injustice top 8 is at least 90 minutes and upwards of 3 hours.

Again, that being said, I think top 8 3/5 is more than fair if the TO and streamer's think it can be fit into the schedule, and then this opens up to at least the top 16 in the event there are 8 pools with winners and losers exiting. For entire tournaments of 3/5, we need to have extremely solid tournament conditions for a game like this. Again, it's not Marvel with 16 setups and a game that blazes by a whole match in under a minute. The Clash System equates to 20 seconds per match with the dialogue and cinematic scenes if both players Clash. So for any top 8 with a reset in the grand finals, there's anywhere from to 8 to 13 minutes of Clash sequences alone.

I will talk to John Gallagher about getting at least top 16 for ECT to be 3/5 but I cannot promise anything. KN will not be streaming the event. but there will be some kind of pools on a stream at some point. I will see about recording pools locally, but it may come down to simply having two or three stream stations and nothing more.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Shock said:
I will talk to John Gallagher about getting at least top 16 for ECT to be 3/5 but I cannot promise anything. KN will not be streaming the event. but there will be some kind of pools on a stream at some point. I will see about recording pools locally, but it may come down to simply having two or three stream stations and nothing more.
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Hey Shock -- What's the reasoning behind the decision to not have someone stream Injustice's ECT pools?
 
A

arde5643

Mortal
@Shock, I suppose you're right that FR was more of the faster top 8. I guess we still need more sample data on how long does an average 3/5 top 8 takes and just double the average for a 3/5 top 16.

I think 3/5 for top 8 should be pretty safe though since Injustice matches go much faster than SF4 matches - and that's the gold standard for match streaming time.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Shock said:
I want to address something quickly as well.

The problems within this community are virtually entirely internal and ego driven which spills into the tournaments in the form of drama, and is perpetuated on message boards. The NRS community has a bond with the FGC today due to tireless bridge building for the last 12+ years. We have a good relationship with TOs, stop trying to ruin it.
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Not completely true

No one would have a problem with it if they people hired to come and do the job were prepared to do so
 
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