Are we as a community ready to enforce 3/5 for the entire tournament?

[Kitana Prime]

@ShinBlanka @BigE @SweetJohnnyCage @CaliPower @CEO Jebailey @Vandy
@RenegadeVA

I know I'm forgetting other TOs but they should be tagged cause the reality is that it's their decision in the end

Not a shot at you or anyone, but can we get our shit together as a community first before we start 'pressuring' the TOs?

 

[arde5643]

Not really down with 3/5 the whole tournament from TO and other game standpoint - I do agree with top 16 being 3/5 the whole way since top 16 Injustice at 3/5 is almost as fast as top 8 SF4 at 3/5.

 

[Shock]

3/5 depends on a few things:

What is the status of the stream for the top 8 or top whatever it is that will be streamed? The head TO determines what will be streamed along with the streamer based on turnout and popularity, if there is a contract, for example between say Big E and Spooky. If a game like Marvel has a general consensus of 3/5 due to how fast and random outcomes can be, and in addition is as popular as it is, the stream itself will gladly budget the extra 1/3 minimum time increase it will add. It is 3/5 for a very blatant reason. Injustice is not as fast as Marvel, not as slow as AE but players due claim the lack of true rounds to be a reason to go 3/5. So now, a 90 minute Injustice top 8 will be 2 hours at least, possible 2 and a 1/2. Does the stream have enough time to compensate for this? Remember, you are asking for MORE out of your TOs and streamers.

There are a couple options here.

We can talk to top TOs and streamers (which I already have started) and see if they are willing to put the game on for the extra time. I confirmed with Spooky, Vic is on board for this as of FR. He streams everywhere and by him doing it, it would then cause a chain reaction for events everywhere to adopt 3/5 for the stream as he is a standard setter in this community for streams. This would allow us to at the very least to expand the 3/5 into the top 16 or whatever the resulting out of pools bracket is. Running entire tournaments 3/5 is just not always possible due to the number of setups available.

The other option is to not have it on the main stream at all or reduce to top 4, which just isn't an option in most cases as most TOs want the game on the main stream and most players want the exposure. If anyone has noticed, MK9 does not get top 8 stream anymore and most majors and what has happened? Oops, the game is becoming 3/5 for the most part. But regardless, this is an unfavorable option for many, but even in the MK9 days, players started asking to just let the game be streamed by the community so we could have our own rules. I have news though, you can't just make up your own rules as a scene and expect all TOs to adopt those rules. It would be nice, but if a TO says "I'm running Injustice 2/3 until top 3 regardless of your community rules" you then have the choice to not attend the event and that is that. For example, the stage select rule is skirted by TOs and even players ALL the time.

3/5 on 8 setups for 128 players should still be feasible in 8 pools, 2 at a time with 2 hour budgets, and rigid limitations on stream pool matches but it can't be promised. The increments may need a half hour buffer.

For ECT last year, 3/5 would have been impossible to finish through to top 8 in one day with the 220 or so players. It might have to be taken into account that sometimes top 16 will need to be done before the top 8 the following day of tournaments.

Anyone disagree with this analysis?

 

[Kitana Prime]

So technically the "Top Players" are like the shot callers or OG in the FGC? everything goes by them before anything gets approved huh?

I wouldn't consider myself a "Top Player".
But if you use your voice moving forward while being rational, you will be heard.
IMO, there are far too many people who just sit and say what you said, or simply dickride these top players' words like the gospel.

Im not taking a shot at you, but know that everyone's opinion can at least be heard. If it makes sense, things can go to next level, regardless of who you are.

 

[Shock]

I want to address something quickly as well.

The problems within this community are virtually entirely internal and ego driven which spills into the tournaments in the form of drama, and is perpetuated on message boards. The NRS community has a bond with the FGC today due to tireless bridge building for the last 12+ years. We have a good relationship with TOs, stop trying to ruin it.

 

[VenomX-90]

I wouldn't consider myself a "Top Player".
But if you use your voice moving forward while being rational, you will be heard.
IMO, there are far too many people who just sit and say what you said, or simply dickride these top players' words like the gospel.

Im not taking a shot at you, but know that everyone's opinion can at least be heard. If it makes sense, things can go to next level, regardless of who you are.

Nuff said, I dont dick ride I just say it how I see it.

 

[pherleece]

Not a shot at you or anyone, but can we get our shit together as a community first before we start 'pressuring' the TOs?

I agree but still think they should be involved in the convo. There shouldnt be any pressure on them while we are simply discussing things. Lets not forget that TOs are members of the fgc too

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

I'd rather keep it 2/3 until top 8 and I'll explain why.

This game is a heavy counterpick game. Since so many lop-sided match ups exist it makes it extremely draining to play 3/5 in every set with people counter picking. Obviously people that play top 5 characters don't really have to worry about this. But for people that play mid tier, you need a counter pick sometimes. And it's even worse if your counter pick for a bad match up isn't top 5. Because then you're dealing with a case where you have to play a counter pick, who you're not as farmiliar with, in a terrible match up for them.

An example being, I absolutely hate the Superman/DD because of obvious reasons. So I'll pick Hawkgirl (which isn't a counter but it's definitely more even IMO). And even if I win that match and a match with Doomsday, I'd have to deal with a GL counterpick or something. It's just extremely draining, specially in pools. And I feel like specially with this game, where characters are so easy to learn. It could just turn into a counterpick fest.

 

[Kitana Prime]

Nuff said, I dont dick ride I just say it how I see it.

I got you 1000%, hopefully you understand I wasn't implying you do.

 

[Kitana Prime]

I agree but still think they should be involved in the convo. There shouldnt be any pressure on them while we are simply discussing things. Lets not forget that TOs are members of the fgc too

You are absolutely right. My mistake.

 

[Ray Riazy]

3/5 depends on a few things:

What is the status of the stream for the top 8 or top whatever it is that will be streamed? The head TO determines what will be streamed along with the streamer based on turnout and popularity, if there is a contract, for example between say Big E and Spooky. If a game like Marvel has a general consensus of 3/5 due to how fast and random outcomes can be, and in addition is as popular as it is, the stream itself will gladly budget the extra 1/3 minimum time increase it will add. It is 3/5 for a very blatant reason. Injustice is not as fast as Marvel, not as slow as AE but players due claim the lack of true rounds to be a reason to go 3/5. So now, a 90 minute Injustice top 8 will be 2 hours at least, possible 2 and a 1/2. Does the stream have enough time to compensate for this? Remember, you are asking for MORE out of your TOs and streamers.

There are a couple options here.

We can talk to top TOs and streamers (which I already have started) and see if they are willing to put the game on for the extra time. I confirmed with Spooky, Vic is on board for this as of FR. He streams everywhere and by him doing it, it would then cause a chain reaction for events everywhere to adopt 3/5 for the stream as he is a standard setter in this community for streams. This would allow us to at the very least to expand the 3/5 into the top 16 or whatever the resulting out of pools bracket is. Running entire tournaments 3/5 is just not always possible due to the number of setups available.

The other option is to not have it on the main stream at all or reduce to top 4, which just isn't an option in most cases as most TOs want the game on the main stream and most players want the exposure. If anyone has noticed, MK9 does not get top 8 stream anymore and most majors and what has happened? Oops, the game is becoming 3/5 for the most part. But regardless, this is an unfavorable option for many, but even in the MK9 days, players started asking to just let the game be streamed by the community so we could have our own rules. I have news though, you can't just make up your own rules as a scene and expect all TOs to adopt those rules. It would be nice, but if a TO says "I'm running Injustice 2/3 until top 3 regardless of your community rules" you then have the choice to not attend the event and that is that. For example, the stage select rule is skirted by TOs and even players ALL the time.

3/5 on 8 setups for 128 players should still be feasible in 8 pools, 2 at a time with 2 hour budgets, and rigid limitations on stream pool matches but it can't be promised. The increments may need a half hour buffer.

For ECT last year, 3/5 would have been impossible to finish through to top 8 in one day with the 220 or so players. It might have to be taken into account that sometimes top 16 will need to be done before the top 8 the following day of tournaments.

Anyone disagree with this analysis?

This this and this. Could not be worded better.

At @RapZiLLa54 events they do 3/5 round robin and run 100 matches within 3 to 4 hours. So it can be done. But it really comes down to how much time and how many people. The more people there are, there more time is needed, 2/3 for pools and 3/5 finals is my preferred method .

 

[Ashenar]

Personally I prefer 2/3 up until finals of pools in which 3/5 is enforced from that point on. Or from Top 16 on, if that's the compromise we must take with TOs for time purposes (excluding Evo right now because of everything that's transpiring in my thread).

We have run 3/5 the entire way at CEO events with me running the brackets and have been on-time.
I have also DQ'ed people without shame. Don't go missing during pool time. Straight up.
Running a tight ship is an absolute MUST. I'm a little lenient because that's how I generally am, but again this tweet is my existence in this community (https://twitter.com/KitanaPrime/statuses/445746272340025344)
I will enforce, because that's what professionals do. We need to be professional. These tournaments aren't free.
I for one can certainly handle making brackets, calling matches, having matches on deck for stream, etc.

PS...
CAN YOU GUYS STOP WITH THE FUCKING HOLLYWOOD BUTTON CHECKS.
...its the only thing that really fucks with me personally.

The only thing I would say needs to be done in a button check is checking your preset and running 1 combo maybe each player nothing to special but running it to test for possible lag because systems at times can run hot.

 

[Kitana Prime]

The only thing I would say needs to be done in a button check is checking your preset and running 1 combo maybe each player nothing to special but running it to test for possible lag because systems at times can run hot.

That's cool, but I think EVERYONE here knows what I mean when I say Hollywood Button Checks.
It's so bad, I have to categorize them as proper nouns in my typing.

 

[Ray Riazy]

That's cool, but I think EVERYONE here knows what I mean when I say Hollywood Button Checks.
It's so bad, I have to categorize them as proper nouns in my typing.

Unfortunetly there is nothing we can really do. Even as TO's. Its really hard to enforce what a good button check is. So as long as its not a deliberate waste of time. What can we do ya know?

 

[Kitana Prime]

Unfortunetly there is nothing we can really do. Even as TO's. Its really hard to enforce what a good button check is. So as long as its not a deliberate waste of time. What can we do ya know?

I get it. This was more of a call out to the community. There's no reason for both players to take a life bar from each other in a button check. Press all your buttons, maaaaaayyyybbbbeeee do a combo (I don't allow combos on me) and play the match. It's not that hard to check buttons.

 

[Compbros]

Unfortunetly there is nothing we can really do. Even as TO's. Its really hard to enforce what a good button check is. So as long as its not a deliberate waste of time. What can we do ya know?

If one, or both, are taking a life bar in a "button check" then it's not a good one.

 

[Ray Riazy]

If one, or both, are taking a life bar in a "button check" then it's not a good one.

I agree its excessive, but they are not doing anything against the rules. Its not like they play a whole match just for button checks. Some people need to warm up their hands, get use to the new game if they just came from say street fighter or marvel. There are so many different things applied that its hard for someone who isn't that person to say whats good enough.

 

[VenomX-90]

I got you 1000%, hopefully you understand I wasn't implying you do.

None, taken I didnt take it personally. I just said it in general and 50% of my posts are just joking around lol.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Damn, no tag to the only man with the balls to do this so far?

 

[Kitana Prime]

Damn, no tag to the only man with the balls to do this so far?

JeBailey did it in November #Kappa

 

[Compbros]

I agree its excessive, but they are not doing anything against the rules. Its not like they play a whole match just for button checks. Some people need to warm up their hands, get use to the new game if they just came from say street fighter or marvel. There are so many different things applied that its hard for someone who isn't that person to say whats good enough.

Then there needs to be rules in place. Sometimes commentators are really into a match only for a pause button and rematch to come up 20 seconds later. Other times they ignore the match because they aren't sure if it's a button check or not. People may need to warm up? Fine: check your buttons, do a combo, do some dashes, done. I understand that enforcing rules like this might be a problem but it's frustrating and time consuming for everyone when two people play something like it's a semi-real match until it's like "yeah, that's enough". I swear one button check at FR was two minutes long, I didn't clock it or anything but it was loooong.

 

[Ray Riazy]

Then there needs to be rules in place. Sometimes commentators are really into a match only for a pause button and rematch to come up 20 seconds later. Other times they ignore the match because they aren't sure if it's a button check or not. People may need to warm up? Fine: check your buttons, do a combo, do some dashes, done. I understand that enforcing rules like this might be a problem but it's frustrating and time consuming for everyone when two people play something like it's a semi-real match until it's like "yeah, that's enough". I swear one button check at FR was two minutes long, I didn't clock it or anything but it was loooong.

Sadly, We can't just throw out rules especially like this. But I agree with you 100%. Its excessive. Just one of those things its hard to control.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I can't wait to see 3/5 GL vs AM sets! ....

 

[Mr Aquaman]

JeBailey did it in November #Kappa

at a major #Kappa

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Injustice is fast paced enough to do 3/5 especially with the rematch button. I see absolutely no reason to do 2/3 with this game.