JC Reset

[Ulturas]

F0xy is probably the best Johnny Cage player right now but you also have to understand that his mentality is all about absolutes. The way Johnny Cages offense works with nut punches its almost hard to justify running resets. That being said I know these resets have the ability to catch players that aren't wake up happy off guard. Its all really up to how you want to play Cage. I'm the type of person that would never go for resets but that's only because I would prefer guaranteed forms of damage if I've earned them.

I'll put a video in a little bit the only scenario I could see it failing is if someone holds down and does a delayed wakeup but at that point the charged palm would be over and you'd be able to block so it may only be a fool me once kinda situation :/. Marvaz's setup you can jump out of but I'm not so sure about the 21F2 setup either way it is worth trying out xD.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I'll put a video in a little bit the only scenario I could see it failing is if someone holds down and does a delayed wakeup but at that point the charged palm would be over and you'd be able to block so it may only be a fool me once kinda situation :/. Marvaz's setup you can jump out of but I'm not so sure about the 21F2 setup either way it is worth trying out xD.

I dont think you get it, cage has no untechable set ups, which means that on wakeup they can do a wakeup move, block or jump, and if they jump even if the palm hits it wont combo so basically its just wasting damage or being greedy

On top of that, doing the palm while theyre knocked down gives them more options than you, you can either cancel into block or a normal move. The normal move will be beaten by the opponents wakeup because they will have invinsibility frames, and blocking has just switched the pressure game to their favour. This is why the palm is better to do after a nutpunch because they have 2 options: Move or block.

The opponent can do way more, they can cross you over for one. If you dedicate yourself to the palm you'll just eat a full combo.
They can wakeup, which will beat ur palm anyway.
They can roll back, meaning that you just lost a load of damage and now have to clear space again which is very difficult at high lvl.
And like you said, they can just lay down.

 

[Ulturas]

I dont think you get it, cage has no untechable set ups, which means that on wakeup they can do a wakeup move, block or jump, and if they jump even if the palm hits it wont combo so basically its just wasting damage or being greedy

I do get it I'm just factoring in other equations, if they do jump they take 11% unblockable damage and remain in the corner. Whilst getting more damage may seem greedy isn't that exactly where you want your opponent to remain in the corner with JC? I know JC relies on Nut Punch resets to keep the pressure game up BUT this reset combo doesn't come without great risk is all I'm saying it can work though if the risk pays off.

Edit: read what else you said, the palm goes through invincibility frames been trying this all night AI do wakeups faster than humans and it is always going through except through enhanced moves that have armour. Also, with the roll they can recovery roll backwards onto a wakeup which the palm also goes through. Like this is just from my testing the only viable thing the opponent can do is jumping (which they take 11% unblockable or you can cancel the palm onto an anti air uppercut), or holding down at which point you can easily block or cancel the palm. Either way they take damage, I'm not saying it doesn't come without it's flaws there is always a way through these setups. It is a risk that can be worth the payoff if done right.

 

[leek]

It's more of a one time thing, is what I've found. At a GGA tournament I went to, two weeks ago I used it once to pull off the round against a noob saibot player. Was a comeback from about 30% health from him at like 60-70% and I chipped him out at the end.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

But if you hit them out of the air with 11% palm, theyre right back where you started. May aswell have just taken your 12% chip over the 11% palm

 

[leek]

What happens when you hit them out of the air?

Does it just do a normal knockdown? I've never seen it, and I've only done this reset 3 times overall, worked twice.

 

[Ulturas]

What happens when you hit them out of the air?

Does it just do a normal knockdown? I've never seen it, and I've only done this reset 3 times overall, worked twice.

Yea they just fall to the ground and you can't continue the combo :/. Kinda shitty but idk could be viable if someone doesn't know that you can jump out, as well it puts them back to square one as F0xy said so I'm not entirely sure it's good though this isn't with Marvaz's setup though this is just with the JIP 21F2 setup. Marvaz's has a lot more ways to tech out of it.

 

[leek]

Yea they just fall to the ground and you can't continue the combo :/. Kinda shitty but idk could be viable if someone doesn't know that you can jump out, as well it puts them back to square one as F0xy said so I'm not entirely sure it's good though this isn't with Marvaz's setup though this is just with the JIP 21F2 setup. Marvaz's has a lot more ways to tech out of it.

Yeah as said earlier it's just a simple find, not some sort of cyrax reset or anything, more of a one-time, catch your opponent off guard deal.

I haven't been using it much but I try occaisionally after 1-2 wall combos to throw them off, especially if they are at 1 bar and closing into the breaker. They seem to hold block near a breaker to try to get it out ASAP, but that's what makes this work. I really don't recommend more than once though, I tried it on that noob saibot player a second time and ate a combo.

sidenote: how to do tech out of it? I used to know, but I can't remember how as of a few days ago. Just dash block?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

No matter how you set it up, there will always be the same ways of escaping, for the same reason i said earlier, he has no untechable setups, meaning the options are always the same

 

[Ulturas]

Yeah as said earlier it's just a simple find, not some sort of cyrax reset or anything, more of a one-time, catch your opponent off guard deal.

I haven't been using it much but I try occaisionally after 1-2 wall combos to throw them off, especially if they are at 1 bar and closing into the breaker. They seem to hold block near a breaker to try to get it out ASAP, but that's what makes this work. I really don't recommend more than once though, I tried it on that noob saibot player a second time and ate a combo.

sidenote: how to do tech out of it? I used to know, but I can't remember how as of a few days ago. Just dash block?

Yea I think it's more of a fool me once kinda thing -_-. Idk I keep trying the results are pretty varied plus the AI always does enhanced wakeups which are armoured so it always goes through anyway :/. Plus there's always the human error factoring which can make this situational as well I agree with some of the stuff F0xy said but I also think this could be viable as a once only type deal in a match, this being if you get them into the corner. I also found out that you can hit them out of the wakeup with holding B2 (right before it is unblockable) and it keeps them standing so you can start chipping away. This is all just testing though I guess, teching is recovery roll wakeups, jumping out, breaking a throw, pressing down, delayed wakeups etc (at least to my knowledge anyway again could be wrong ).

 

[leek]

teching is recovery roll wakeups, jumping out, breaking a throw, pressing down, delayed wakeups etc

No I know what it means, what is the exact input to tech out of the unblockable charged palm I meant?

 

[Ulturas]

No I know what it means, what is the exact input to tech out of the unblockable charged palm I meant?

Which particular one? Recovery roll wakeup is like pressing back + special, staying down is holding down, the question is really vast man plus I don't know all the inputs for particular tech moves :/. You aren't trying to troll me are you? lol I don't claim I know everything about MK so kinda pointless I'm just theorizing ideas .

 

[leek]

Which particular one? Recovery roll wakeup is like pressing back + special, staying down is holding down, the question is really vast man plus I don't know all the inputs for particular tech moves :/. You aren't trying to troll me are you? lol I don't claim I know everything about MK so kinda pointless I'm just theorizing ideas .

aksjhglkasjhglkjsahlkjhlkjhasiljuhalvjur when you hold B+2 what do you press to tech out. is what I was asking, because dash blocking doesn't seem to work is all.

 

[Ulturas]

aksjhglkasjhglkjsahlkjhlkjhasiljuhalvjur when you hold B+2 what do you press to tech out.

Ohh you just hold 2 and dash man lol could've just asked that confusing the hell outta me haha xD.

 

[leek]

Ohh you just hold 2 and dash man lol could've just asked that confusing the hell outta me haha xD.

it is what I asked :/ and it doesn't work ever for me.

whatever no biggy, I'm not really implementing this reset anyways

 

[Ulturas]

it is what I asked :/ and it doesn't work ever for me.

whatever no biggy, I'm not really implementing this reset anyways

Weird man works fine for me xD you just do B2 Hold 2 and dash either backwards or forwards backwards is safer though I think because you can block pretty quickly after that.

 

[Christy]

1) This appears obvious to me, if I saw my opponent charging an unblockable attack I'd just do a wakeup attack?
2) Your dropping 10% off your combo to do this 'reset' in the first place, and additionally it adds damage scaling to the next combo you do.
3) The 41% into nutpunch is set in stone and leaves them at disadvantage for a frame trap follow up.

 

[Marvaz]

I am going to buy a capture device and show u guys what im talking about it stuffing wake ups. In corners you can cancel the b2, and b3 if they jump or flash kick. But wait, i really have a lot to say about this. I might hop on silents stream tonight. Possibly. It still a 50/50 cause they can ALWAYS just lay on the ground but they are still in the corner.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I am going to buy a capture device and show u guys what im talking about it stuffing wake ups. In corners you can cancel the b2, and b3 if they jump or flash kick. But wait, i really have a lot to say about this. I might hop on silents stream tonight. Possibly. It still a 50/50 cause they can ALWAYS just lay on the ground but they are still in the corner.

Its not a 50/50 if they have more than 2 options, which they do, wakeup, jump, lay down or block if they expect a fake. This is exactly why im saying do it after a nutpunch because then it actually is a 50/50 because they cant wakeup and they cant lay down, all they can do is block or jump.

It doesnt stop wakeups anyway, try using the palm against a spin/slide/ExTU/ExND etc

 

[Name v.5.0]

I've actually had some success with this in the corner following a nut punch. After you complete the standard combo they are left standing and holding block as they know you are about to start a frame trap. Instead you charge up and slam them and get a free corner combo plus the 11 from the B+2. They can either jump out or do a quick attack to negate this but it worked a few times on some unsuspecting opponents. At high level play it's just too slow but man it was fun to slam a noob with the whole thing for 80 some damage.

 

[Marvaz]

Its not a 50/50 if they have more than 2 options, which they do, wakeup, jump, lay down or block if they expect a fake. This is exactly why im saying do it after a nutpunch because then it actually is a 50/50 because they cant wakeup and they cant lay down, all they can do is block or jump.

It doesnt stop wakeups anyway, try using the palm against a spin/slide/ExTU/ExND etc

For 1 theycant jump out of it after a 21f2 2,2,2, 21f2, b2. Try it in practice mode and they eat a full reset. If u catch them as they jump your doing it too late. Only thing they can do is wake up or lay on the ground.

Im not home right now but go into practice mode pick sub zero as ur opp for ex. Set the computer to wake up and if u time it right the b2 stuffs all subs wake ups.

I actually wrote a WHOLE character specific wake up stuffs and what u can do if they lay on the ground and what the timing is vs them. But yes everyone, this is probably a once in a match thing to do its better to end in nut punch as stated by all the pro jc players here. But im working on trying to make it worth doing.

Vs KUNG LAO, if kl has no meter and u have him cornered so setup and b2 dash back and watch him spin and u get a full punish. Mix it up and they eat a full combo. They teleport it beats it. KL with meter different story. Ex tele he gets out i believe. I forget. Ex spin if u dont cancel in time and try to block ur dead. But, if u jump over them theyre dead. These are just some of the scenerios vs kl.

 

[Marvaz]

I've actually had some success with this in the corner following a nut punch. After you complete the standard combo they are left standing and holding block as they know you are about to start a frame trap. Instead you charge up and slam them and get a free corner combo plus the 11 from the B+2. They can either jump out or do a quick attack to negate this but it worked a few times on some unsuspecting opponents. At high level play it's just too slow but man it was fun to slam a noob with the whole thing for 80 some damage.

At a high level, NO1 will fall for a full charge after a nut punch. One of the ways i can incorporate it into jc game is quick walk up and b2 dash out and 11,b3. MOst peole will try and jump out when they see that. Mix it up though. They try and poke f32, f33 after b2 cancel.

 

[Ulturas]

I actually wrote a WHOLE character specific wake up stuffs and what u can do if they lay on the ground and what the timing is vs them. But yes everyone, this is probably a once in a match thing to do its better to end in nut punch as stated by all the pro jc players here. But im working on trying to make it worth doing.

I had some theories about the reset, 21F2 2 2 2 2 11 3 (or 4) Nut punch gives you around 36-38% I think that combined with with the opener it's around 75% total and leaves your opponent standing = good finish to a corner combo imo I can possibly add a sweep to the combo but idk kinda don't rely on it too much. I'll do up a video of it later on (about to head to bed) so you don't have to go out and buy a capture card . Only thing being it's kinda inconsistent with some characters like sometimes SZ's invincibility frames will allow the slide to go through even if you hit before.

 

[Ulturas]

Keep trying to record it but it's pretty damn inconsistent that's for sure :/. Sometimes it will go through sometimes it won't it's more consistent with JIP 21F2 but even then it's basically the same either there's some really damn specific timing or I'm just out of practice with this kinda stuff :/.